Class of 2017 Service Selection Stats

I've always been curious about how deployment works. is it like 7 months on, 3 months and (if it is) are those 3 months off still credited to your service? Also, what about different selections? Does the swo officer have the same deployment schedules as say the submarine officer? always been curious how this isn't ever really discussed at any q and a's
 
ktnatalk said:
The article at this link will answer many questions raised in this thread:

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2006/06/20/us/20eye.html
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I don't think this article hits at the heart of the problem.

It's true that more and more midshipmen can make themselves competitive for pilot slots through eye surgery but the quota for the number of pilots remains relatively constant. What hasn't remained constant is the commitment. It's 8 years AFTER winging! Training could take up to 2 years or longer. So, they're looking at a 10 year commitment, for many midshipmen who are somewhat ambivalent about aviation, that is a huge turn off. This is compounded by the fact that the aviation community is very unforgiving in the training process, oftentimes booting the failed student naval aviators out of the Navy altogether. These horror stories come back to Bancroft Hall from the classes that precede them.

Consequently, naval aviation (pilot in particular) is not as popular as it used to be. In my day, our aviation commitment was 5 years, just like everybody else. True - it didn't start until after we earned our wings - but it was still only 5 years.

This article is accurate in pointing out that submarine service is becoming increasingly less popular. Midshipmen do not see how this facilitates the War on Terror. Plus, Boomers basically have a doomsday mission. It's depressing. Cruising around beneath the ocean service, cut-off from society for months at a time, waiting for World War III. What millennial wants a job like that? Nonetheless, those who serve in that community must be both 1) qualified and 2) volunteers. It's hard to get both. Some of the volunteers are not qualified and some of those who are qualified are not volunteering.

I think there should be some benefit to attending the Naval Academy over other commissioning programs. The quotas should not be so fixed. For instance, if they need 130 submarine volunteers and they only get 125 - instead of going on a witch hunt to coerce 5 midshipmen to change their mind, they should get those extra 5 spots from other commissioning programs. Surely, there is somebody in an NROTC program or OCS class who would love one of those spots. If the quota for pilot is 240 and 254 want to fly, just take 14 slots away from the other commissioning programs.

There used to be some advantage to attending the Navy's premiere officer training program. Not so much anymore.
 
luckydoggy1234 said:
I've always been curious about how deployment works. is it like 7 months on, 3 months and (if it is) are those 3 months off still credited to your service? Also, what about different selections? Does the swo officer have the same deployment schedules as say the submarine officer? always been curious how this isn't ever really discussed at any q and a's
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Once you are on active duty, it's 24/7/365, though you may be on leave (personal time off) at various times - it all counts.

As to deployment lengths, it varies with, as always, the needs of the Navy (insert any service), world events, operational tempo, mission requirements, nature of the warfare platform and a host of other factors. My DH went on aircraft carrier deployments of 11 months. I did shorter stints. A USNA sponsor son, a Marine captain, is headed out in 2017 for 9 months to Afghanistan. It could be 3 months for someone else. These have varied widely over the years. There are also underway periods at sea for training and exercises.

Operational units that deploy tend to have a cycle. VERY generally:
- training
- exercises, short at-sea periods or mini-deployments, more local; graded events
- immediate pre-deployment (intense)
- deployment on combat or non-combat mission (eat, sleep, breathe mission execution)
- post-deployment standdown (more relaxed, leave granted, etc.), repairs and maintenance, etc.
- start over


Your job is your job. You do it ashore and afloat, regardless of where your unit is in the deployment cycle. You are constantly training, because new people are always rotating in.
 
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NavyHoops said:
Agree with 85. The one exception would be sub draft. Some people could of had it last or very low on the list and gotten sub drafted. I believe I heard there was a 'draft' this year, but not sure on number.
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So much for Nuclear Power being an all "volunteer" force, huh? :)

Of course, the Navy would say, "It was one of your preferences!" But, the dirty little secret is that it is almost impossible not to have subs as one of your preferences. I think they force you to have a minimum of six preferences. If you didn't go Leatherneck and did not screen for either SEAL or EOD, then "subs" is going to be somewhere - even if it's last.
 
Memphis' points amplify what many posters say over and over in many different threads: prospective candidates need to evaluate the possiblility of not getting their top choice(s) in the academy they choose to attend after being offered an appointment. i.e. if you don't get the branch/field of your top choice will you be fine with what they offer you, or do you think you will be miserable? I applaud those want to serve regardless of what service and what the job maybe and apply to multiple academies and ROTC schools and options. I don't think that applies to most young people though.
 
If you really want to be a Marine and can't accept the possibility of being a Nuke SWO, don't sign 2 for 7.

Or pull a few Cs in Physics and Calculus and maybe they won't even consider you for the draft.
 
As a BGO, I always counsel applicants that they should be prepared to go into a community other than their primary desire -- and explain it can happen for many reasons including injury, needs of the Navy, not performing well during "screeners," etc. Not sure they internalize that at age 17 but the effort is there.
 
nuensis said:
If you really want to be a Marine and can't accept the possibility of being a Nuke SWO, don't sign 2 for 7.

Or pull a few Cs in Physics and Calculus and maybe they won't even consider you for the draft.
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I like the first paragraph but disagree with the second one. Mids take those classes in their first and/or second year, do you remember the many sad faces towards the end of ship selection when the ships and homeports left are really limited? :(
 
Here's a paradox for those seeking any highly selective community like EOD, SEAL, or MedCorps - where they only take a very few ... the harder you work toward that goal - and it's lots of hard work - the less you can imagine doing something else. You don't work hard toward being a Navy SEAL, for instance, then shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh well, I'll guess I'll wear a pair of binoculars as the OOD on a destroyer."

The difference between a 1st and 2nd choice can be dramatic. It's not as if you ordered a coffee and got a hot chocolate instead. It's more like getting a pastrami sandwich. Let's say your 1st choice is Navy Pilot and you have dreams of slipping the surly bonds of earth on laughter-silvered wings in your Super Hornet. Would getting your 2nd choice, involving squeezing your way through the narrow passageways of a nuclear submarine, while lumbering slowly, silently and darkly at 100 feet beneath the ocean's surface be just as satisfying? Could there possibly be a starker difference? Telling that unfortunate midshipman, "Well, at least you got your 2nd choice" provides no consolation. Who orders coffee and says, "Well, if you're out of coffee, I'll take a pastrami sandwich instead"?
 
Memphis9489 said:
Here's a paradox for those seeking any highly selective community like EOD, SEAL, or MedCorps - where they only take a very few ... the harder you work toward that goal - and it's lots of hard work - the less you can imagine doing something else. You don't work hard toward being a Navy SEAL, for instance, then shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh well, I'll guess I'll wear a pair of binoculars as the OOD on a destroyer."

The difference between a 1st and 2nd choice can be dramatic. It's not as if you ordered a coffee and got a hot chocolate instead. It's more like getting a pastrami sandwich. Let's say your 1st choice is Navy Pilot and you have dreams of slipping the surly bonds of earth on laughter-silvered wings in your Super Hornet. Would getting your 2nd choice, involving squeezing your way through the narrow passageways of a nuclear submarine, while lumbering slowly, silently and darkly at 100 feet beneath the ocean's surface be just as satisfying? Could there possibly be a starker difference? Telling that unfortunate midshipman, "Well, at least you got your 2nd choice" provides no consolation. Who orders coffee and says, "Well, if you're out of coffee, I'll take a pastrami sandwich instead"?
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But that's life isn't it? You don't always get what you want. But you will end up where you belong if you do what's right and keep working hard.
 
Memphis9489 said:
Here's a paradox for those seeking any highly selective community like EOD, SEAL, or MedCorps - where they only take a very few ... the harder you work toward that goal - and it's lots of hard work - the less you can imagine doing something else. You don't work hard toward being a Navy SEAL, for instance, then shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh well, I'll guess I'll wear a pair of binoculars as the OOD on a destroyer."

The difference between a 1st and 2nd choice can be dramatic. It's not as if you ordered a coffee and got a hot chocolate instead. It's more like getting a pastrami sandwich. Let's say your 1st choice is Navy Pilot and you have dreams of slipping the surly bonds of earth on laughter-silvered wings in your Super Hornet. Would getting your 2nd choice, involving squeezing your way through the narrow passageways of a nuclear submarine, while lumbering slowly, silently and darkly at 100 feet beneath the ocean's surface be just as satisfying? Could there possibly be a starker difference? Telling that unfortunate midshipman, "Well, at least you got your 2nd choice" provides no consolation. Who orders coffee and says, "Well, if you're out of coffee, I'll take a pastrami sandwich instead"?
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I don't disagree with you on this Memphis. I watched my best friend get Pilot instead of SEALs (he has had an amazing career). There are more than double the amount of SEAL spots now than when I was at USNA. So my guess is those wanting SEALs and being selected after all the screeners, mini-BUDS etc is not nearly as low as it was before those numbers increase. The screeners and Mini-BUDS tend to create a natural attrition from these fields. Same with Med Corps. I don't remember anyone not getting a Med Corps spot in my class that had made it through the 'pipeline'. I think actually 2 of them didn't make into Med school and had to be reassigned new warfare communities. Not sure how things work now, but it was a guarantee if someone put pilot instead of SWO as their #2 when SEAL was their #1 they would not get SEALs. Nuensis is that still true today at USNA? Marine Corps desirability has fluctuated over the year. Some years they have plenty of folks. Other years they have drafted a few folks. This hasn't been as often as the subs and I believe its been awhile since it that happened. As much as Med Corps, SEALS, EOD takes to receive one of these assignments, these folks are more aware of the possibility of not receiving this assignment than anyone. This also holds true for Marines at TBS waiting for MOSs. I had a fire team buddy who dropped his flight contract because he wanted combat arms. He did not get anything close to combat arms. He dealt with it and is about to retire. Every Mid by the time they are 1/C have watched 3 classes before them go through the process of service assignment and recognize the possibilities of what can happen that day. I think its why so many of us old guys stress that the "needs of the Navy" win over anything to candidates. If they only want to fly F/A-18s... that is great, but we all know statistically the chances of all those things lining up are small and if they aren't okay doing anything else in the Navy its a big risk.

I actually like they do service assignment earlier now. It gives those who did not get their first choice time to digest the change in path and research ships and assignments prior to that big night in January. I remember when ours was done all within a 36 hour period. At lunch you got your assignment, the next night we picked dates/ships. I was Marine Ground or SWO. I hadn't even thought of a ship and would of honestly just been picking in the dark (stupid on my part). But this allows those to who end up in this spot time to deal with it all and move on.
 
Could some of the 32 (2%) be mids that were a part of a foreign service who attended USNA?
 
Don't believe so. They don't count towards service selection. Their own counties handle their assignments and obligations.
 
My personal opinion is that there should be some benefit (an advantage) to attending the United States Naval Academy instead of going to OCS or NROTC. The Naval Academy is the premiere officer training program and has, by far, the most intense preparation compared to any of the other commissioning programs. It is also the most difficult commissioning program to gain acceptance. I think there should be some flexibility in these "quotas" for the Naval Academy midshipmen. If they come up four short for subs, get them from another program! Don't force an unenthused midshipman down a path that he has had more than ample opportunity during a 4-year course to determine that that is not what he/she wants to do. I certainly don't want anybody working on a nuclear reactor who had his heart set on being a Marine or being a Naval Aviator. If they have ten too many for the pilot quota, let them fly! Surely they can shave 10 pilots slots away from the countless NROTC programs distributed throughout the country. It would be practically transparent.

In short, I think there should be some perks for Naval Academy midshipmen. If they're qualified for the community of their choice, let them pursue their dream. My guess is that you will see retention be higher further down the road. And that saves money!

The sub quota shouldn't be a hard number like 130. It should be more like 130-ish. Maybe plus or minus 10 ... 120-140. A window!
 
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Memphis9489 said:
My personal opinion is that there should be some benefit (an advantage) to attending the United States Naval Academy instead of going to OCS or NROTC. The Naval Academy is the premiere officer training program and has, by far, the most intense preparation compared to any of the other commissioning programs. It is also the most difficult commissioning program to gain acceptance. I think there should be some flexibility in these "quotas" for the Naval Academy midshipmen. If they come up four short for subs, get them from another program! Don't force an unenthused midshipman down a path that he has had more than ample opportunity during a 4-year course to determine that that is not what he/she wants to do. I certainly don't want anybody working on a nuclear reactor who had his heart set on being a Marine or being a Naval Aviator. If they have ten too many for the pilot quota, let them fly! Surely they can shave 10 pilots slots away from the countless NROTC programs distributed throughout the country. It would be practically transparent.

In short, I think there should be some perks for Naval Academy midshipmen. If they're qualified for the community of their choice, let them pursue their dream. My guess is that you will see retention be higher further down the road. And that saves money!

The sub quota shouldn't be a hard number like 130. It should be more like 130-ish. Maybe plus or minus 10 ... 120-140. A window!
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Reading this and not laughing/ throwing up is difficult.
 
@memphis - I liked your pastrami sandwich thought, but you kinda lost me now. If your idea was put into action, what would you suggest if in a given year 600 wanted pilot, one wanted subs and all the rest wanted Marines? I'm really curious what you think might happen then?
 
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