Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by SamAca10, Dec 23, 2011.
This article is spot on. Although, I haven't heard of any increase in the budget. I have heard of a $600M cut.
Obama's proposed USCG budget has been so low that Congress has had to increased the proposed budget.
It reminds me of some of the old Hueys that my squadron trains on. They are good birds, but more often than not, we came home with something not functioning correctly. It makes things very difficult for maintenance to keep them working at 100%.
I still have trouble taking anyone seriously who uses the word "busted" multiple times in a published article.
I have trouble taking Huffington Post seriously, but something tells me a Huey is far less work than 270' 30 year old cutter or a gun 210' 50 year old cutter.
I don't get into the maintenance side of things very often.
Generally, aircraft require multiple hours of maintenance per hour of flight. The level and type of maintenance will of course vary quite a lot.
You'd be surprised. Is the cutter a lot bigger? Yes. And I don't know EXACTLY what they do, but I can speak to the aviation side.
Every rotary airframe except the OH-58D goes through regular phase maintenance. A Phase is when the aircraft has flown x number of hours (usually happens to an aircraft once every year or so). The entire airframe is taken to the AVIM (Aviation Intermediate Maintenance) company in the brigade's organic support battalion. Once there, it's literally stripped down to the bulkheads. Everything is removed down to a bare airframe and rebuilt. That usually takes a month or two, depending on the size of the airframe, the damage to aging components (cracked bulkheads are a HUGE problem these days) and how many ASAMs and AWR/MWO tasks must be accomplished to get the airframe back into service. There are also major services at 100, 300, and 600 hours. The 600 hour can require the removal of one or both engines.
So I don't know how often a cutter is torn down and rebuilt, but I'm guessing it's not once every 12 months. I don't know that one is really "more" work than the other. I'm thinking they just happen at very different intervals.
Raimius is absolutely right. 3-to-1 is about the ratio for maintenance hours to flight hours.
The 210's are between 42-48 years old, the oldest (ACTIVE) was commissioned in 1964, the newest (ALERT) in 1969.
Every 210 has been decommissioned at least once, and then reactivated with an 18 month long overhaul in the late 90's.
And in the mid 2000's (around 2006-2009) they again went to drydock at Curtis Bay for yet another major 8-10 month overhaul / upgrade.
That's drydock, which is major. The normal "in-port" routine maintenance occurs each time the cutter stops moving, and in many cases, while underway.
I'm guessing these isn't someone performing preventative maintenance mid-flight on a helo. I have a limited idea of the full maintenance that goes into maintaining a Coast Guard Jayhawk (the 60 that has more hours than any other service 60). Understand the fact that they're being maintained between flights. That work on a ship is constant, engineers stand watches (more than tapping a gauge). If they didn't cutters would break down, there would be fires, etc. That is increased as the cutter ages.
There is no comparison. Understanding a screwed up helo or plane can fall out of the sky, a 50 year old cutter is constantly maintained, and a full overhaul takes many months, to years.... and it one does down, you lose hundreds of people.
RELIANCE (WMEC 615) is the oldest 210' (and namesake of the class).
I believe ACTICE (WMEC 618) was the third or fourth. DILIGENCE (WMEC 616) was also early....
Of the origninal 16 210's, two have been decommissioned (COURAGEOUS and DURABLE), one is with a foreign navy, and the other is at the bottom of the sea.
As Luigi said, the 210's have been through two mid-lifes overhauls. Those overhauls lasted many months. Beyond that, there are yard periods, maintenance pier-side, and constant 24/7 maintenance while underway.
Well, it depends on the airframe. On a scout/attack platform? No. On a Chinook? Absolutely. It's not uncommon for a FE (flight engineer) to be servicing the AFCS hydraulics mid-flight.
In general, obviously, more underway maintenance occurs on a ship that's sailing than on an aircraft that's flying. But that's sort of apple to oranges. You can't exactly stroll through a chow line or go to the head on aircraft either. Different animals altogether. Maintenance underway or maintenance on the ramp...it's still maintenance...man-hours and logistics.
But, we're talking about the Coast Guard and there's no point in having any sort of reasoned discussion about it, as we all know there's "no comparison." :roll eyes: Though I bet they don't red-X cutters too often. If I have to be on something with questionable maintenance, I'll choose a ship. Ships float when the engines stop and helicopters don't have nice lifeboats.
I would love to see a citation for the HH-60 flight hour claim...or is that CG tribal lore?
No citation, just a cross commissioned Army to Coast Guard pilot who flew Blackhawks and Jayhawks. Now, if you can find an Army pilot that also flew for the Coast Guard.... I'd be MORE than willing to listen. And yes, all 60s. That's what happens when you fly around the clock... even in peace time. The 60s in service were racking up the hours well before Sep. 11, 2001.
Oh wait, but we're all supposed to surround the U.S. Army and tell them about how tough their funding has been! Shoot.
Correct, we're talking about ships, and one in the conversation is amazed by his first experience on a ship.... heck even posted a thread about it.
Look I don't need to explain the needs of a service that has a fraction of the inflated budget of the U.S. Army (it's relative I guess, as Army fat cats cry about the Air Force).
The two do not compare, not even close, sorry. I assume you can count higher than 20, even with your shoes and socks on... and the numbers, funding-wise, are well on the Army's side. You've made that argument yourself. Army gear the age of Coast Guard cutters are nice little displays on bases....not in operation.
I absolutely love this graphic.
Scout.... nice big circle for Army... can you find the Coast Guard?
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