Mongo, I really did not want this to be a............................ lesson in the flying atmosphere.......................................... could not give a crap left, right or indifferent about speeds, water temps., or dunkers.
........................I think most are being realistic.
..............................I am with you in hoping for finding them alive, but I am with Scout, that because of how the notification process works, they will probably be found inside the helo.
I hate to say it, but they won't be found alive. Overwater flying is a high-risk endeavor, and a crash usually means that good men will be surrendered to the deep. Godspeed to all.
My point was only to state that I supported Scout's position that unfortunately they probably are dead, but due to regs they are not according the CG.
trackandfield08, I am sure we have the same goals in mind.Out of respect for those involved in the crash, their families, and the Coast Guard family, I ask that the conversation please refrain from becoming an argument. To argue about things on a thread such as this is disrespectful and unnecessary.
If posters make uninformed statements such as the following, perhaps you should “give a crap”.
Uninformed statements such as these do nothing to enhance the memory of those professional aviators who have worked and trained hard to be able to cope with situations such as this. It does nothing to give the families a glimmer of hope commensurate with the professionalism of their husbands, dads, and sons. It does nothing to enhance the professionalism of those who train them and set the standards. It does nothing to enhance the knowledge of the candidates and midshipmen/candidates who want to fly helicopters but don’rt want to be foolhardy.
Just for the record, around eighty percent of all Navy/Marine Corps personnel survive water helicopter crashes. That's four out of five. And the survival rate gets better every year.
Not trying to start a fight at all, Just trying to educate since I do probably know a lot more about water helicopter survivability than the rest of the forum combined.
As an aside, things don’t stay in the same place where they are dumped in the water, even in bays. A married Norfolk City councilman decided to go skinny dipping off his boat with his girlfriend one evening. We got the call of an abandoned boat late the next morning. We found them late afternoon alive clutching to the Chesapeake Bay Light twelve miles from the boat. They did not swim twelve miles.
Never give up hope.Especially with trained professional Naval Aviators whose livelyhood is flying over water.
If you want to chide people for making uninformed statements, don't make them yourself. That statistic is completely out of line with reality.
Some of us have completed Dunker this century, including Naval dunker training.
Your goal is not to be comforting or hopeful
trackandfield08, I am sure we have the same goals in mind.
This thread is quickly turning ugly and completely off topic.
Can't we just be mindful of a tragic situation with out sliding into a war of words worthy only of facebook.
Our family's hearts go out the crew and families of fellow Coast Guardsmen.
That's all that need be said.
Semper Paratus
A couple of rides does not an expert make. Obviously. However, the discussion is about the CG pilots. What made you think it was about you?
I was always afraid to go out on a limb by telling other people what they were thinking
This thread is quickly turning ugly and completely off topic.
Can't we just be mindful of a tragic situation with out sliding into a war of words worthy only of facebook.
Our family's hearts go out the crew and families of fellow Coast Guardsmen.
That's all that need be said.
Semper Paratus
My 'data' was a conversation at Pax River a year or so ago comparing the H-60 and the H-46 as VERTREP platforms. The link is there that I posted supporting the 80% though. No comment? vWe who do/did it and parents and advisors of those who do it now, take comfort in that 80%, which holds true pretty much accross the board, both helo and fixed wing. One Class A every 15,000 hours or so and an 80% chance of walking away. Pretty good odds.Except in your case, where insinuation of sage experience and supposed data you "can't seem to locate" make you qualified to declare everyone else unqualified. I'm comfortable saying I've got more dunker rides under my belt than anyone else posting in this thread. That's a reality of the job, and is worth mentioning because we have to redo the academics every time and they include statistics and recent case reports.
That's just a lie.
How you can find yourself to be in the right when you turn genuine and candid comments about a horrid situation by Pima or yours truly into yet another feeble attempt to be right about something is beyond me.
And while you're busy quoting "facts" about overwater survival, aircrews don't carry oxygen. It's compressed atmospheric air, which provides 4 minutes of breathing at average volumetric respiration at sea level pressure. But I'm sure you knew that.