Coast Guard searching for missing cargo ship El Faro

Reading some reports on el faro and mechanical failures, one "In a distress call on Thursday morning, El Faro said it had lost propulsion, was listing and had taken on water after sailing into the path of Joaquin off Crooked Island in the Bahamas, according to the owner, Tote Maritime Puerto Rico. It was never heard from again." Very very sad.
 
Reports now indicate that one body has been found in a survival suit and one empty life boat (capacity 43) has also been found.
 
beyond said:
That is the question no one can seem to come up with an answer to. It is a very challenging decision.
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beyond,

Thanks for understanding the spirit, in which I asked the question.

I am a lifelong sailor and a ship's captain wannabe. Whether it's Patrick O'Brien novels, the Andrea Gail, or the Endurance, I devour everything I can related to ocean voyaging.

My only blue water experience was sailing a 50' catamaran from Marsh Harbour, BA to Annapolis. I even bought a sextant to teach myself celestial navigation. Thank goodness for GPS or we'd still be doing circles in the Sargasso Sea.
 
cb7893 said:
beyond said:
That is the question no one can seem to come up with an answer to. It is a very challenging decision.
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I am a lifelong sailor and a ship's captain wannabe. Whether it's Patrick O'Brien novels, the Andrea Gail, or the Endurance, I devour everything I can related to ocean voyaging.

My only blue water experience was sailing a 50' catamaran from Marsh Harbour, BA to Annapolis. I even bought a sextant to teach myself celestial navigation. Thank goodness for GPS or we'd still be doing circles in the Sargasso Sea.
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Loran would have been an option for you too, had Secretary Napolitano, in her infinite wisdom, not done away with it.

Check out Deadliest Sea. It's a book about the Alaska Ranger rescue in the Bering Sea…. I think it really captures the process nicely and the language really gives you a good idea of what a SAR case is like. I really enjoyed it.
 
LineInTheSand said:
Loran would have been an option for you too, had Secretary Napolitano, in her infinite wisdom, not done away with it.

Check out Deadliest Sea. It's a book about the Alaska Ranger rescue in the Bering Sea…. I think it really captures the process nicely and the language really gives you a good idea of what a SAR case is like. I really enjoyed it.
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I'll take the bait. Why keep Loran if GPS is cheap, available and usable anywhere on the earth's surface?

Used Loran crossing Lake Michigan in early 80's, before GPS was widely available. It worked fine.

I think I've heard of the book and I will look for it. Thanks.
 
cb7893 said:
LineInTheSand said:
Loran would have been an option for you too, had Secretary Napolitano, in her infinite wisdom, not done away with it.

Check out Deadliest Sea. It's a book about the Alaska Ranger rescue in the Bering Sea…. I think it really captures the process nicely and the language really gives you a good idea of what a SAR case is like. I really enjoyed it.
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I'll take the bait. Why keep Loran if GPS is cheap, available and usable anywhere on the earth's surface?

Used Loran crossing Lake Michigan in early 80's, before GPS was widely available. It worked fine.

I think I've heard of the book and I will look for it. Thanks.
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The issue with GPS (dGPS) is, with low atmosphere explosion, you can take out a good chunk of GPS coverage. And as you alluded to, people don't really know cel. nav. In fact, some ships don't have paper chart back ups.

So, if we lose GPS, how are ships navigating? Loran-C provided a backup to GPS fans, but it was also a good terrestrial based system. In reality, a number of folks still used Loran-C (fishermen especially).

Dropping Loran-C did not go over well with a number of Coast Guard leaders (and not just because of the Coast Guard's "Loranimals".
 
Coming from a non maritime background, what I have found confusing is why just this one ship? Were there others, but we never heard about them because they weren't big or important enough to make the news? For me, I wonder about the call the captain and shipping company made because only one ship was reported lost. I don't wish such a loss on anyone at any time. But because it is only one, it does lead me to wonder how much was it bad judgement vs. bad luck. I have learned a lot in this thread, and it has been interesting. How much does luck vs. judgement play in making the right call on the open seas during hurricane or typhoon season?
 
Momba, it's hard to pass over the story of the loss of a 730' ship, but ships and boats are lost every day. Every day planes crash too…. small planes… with the loss of a few people…. but when a large commercial plane crashes it's, understandably, all over the news.

This was not the only vessel underway at the time (nor the only one lost).

It's less of a maritime question and more of a public relations question….
 
LineInTheSand said:
Momba, it's hard to pass over the story of the loss of a 730' ship, but ships and boats are lost every day. Every day planes crash too…. small planes… with the loss of a few people…. but when a large commercial plane crashes it's, understandably, all over the news.

This was not the only vessel underway at the time (nor the only one lost).

It's less of a maritime question and more of a public relations question….
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Public relations it is. Perception usually drives opinions, biases and conclusions. Limited information can be just as problematic as too much information.
 
I know everyone is going to be missed by someone, but the state maritime academies have really felt the loss…. at this point some are from SUNY Maritime, Maine Maritime and Mass. Maritime…. these are all small schools.
 
I've been following this thread - thanks for chiming in, people with blue-water experience. And thanks, LITS, for the explanation of Loran. Here and Now had Capt. Joseph Murphy on the program on Monday, explaining how this could happen and, specifically, how such a large ship could list, capsize, and sink. I recommend listening to the interview, if you can invest the time, but basically his explanation was, it's a hurricane. With 40-foot seas and 140-knot winds, there are very few seagoing vessels that could withstand that battering. It would have made deploying the lifeboats, egressing the ship and entering the lifeboats nigh impossible. Mother Nature is merciless and more powerful than we give her credit.

For a while in the 90s, I was an instructor in NOLS, and I saw our crews and instructors go through the same kind of evolution. Stage 1 is, I'm a little scared, but I trust you guys. Stage 2 is, I'm strong, I'm invincible, I can handle anything, BRING IT. A lot of people stop there. A lot of people LIVE under the illusion that because they can turn up a thermostat, turn on a faucet, flip a switch and cook a meal, that they have bested nature. Technology only takes you so far. Forty-foot seas, 140-knot winds, no port to enter, no way off the ship, no one to negotiate with, no alternatives. Human beings can adapt to and overcome a lot of things, but sometimes there is a confluence of nature that makes it NOT POSSIBLE. And those people get to stage 3: I am strong, I am trained, I am clever, and I have my wits - but I am a speck of dust on a capricious planet, and I am at its mercy.

I have a feeling that's one of the lessons here.

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/10/05/cargo-ship-el-faro-sinks
 
LongAgoPlebe said:
With 40-foot seas and 140-knot winds, there are very few seagoing vessels that could withstand that battering.
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Actually most well founded ocean going vessels can withstand those kind of wind and sea conditions and survive, provided they have means of propulsion and steering.

I was working for APL back in 1986 when the SS PRESIDENT TAFT had very close encounters with two western Pacific typhoons, both within a period of seven days. The ship did sustain over a million dollars in damage to her hull and appurtenances and 25 containers were lost over the side. In the first typhoon an 18 ton pontoon hatch, covering the starboard side of #1 hold, was lifted and blown over the side when the dogging bolts worked free of the hatch skirt securing cleats. Despite the extreme heavy weather the ship stayed afloat. They never lost the plant or steering and miraculously no one was seriously hurt.
 
The Maritime Academies have certainly taken a big hit with crew from SUNY, Mass Maritime and Maine Maritime. Merchant Marine has also. As the crew list comes out pray for their families.
 
The Merchant Marine Monument in San Pedro CA states: "The United States Merchant Marine has faithfully served our country in times of war and peace hauling cargo to every corner of the world. This memorial is dedicated to those brave men and women of all races, creeds and colors who answered that call to serve". Highest casualty rate of any service in WWII. Look up the Murmansk Run. As I was researching MM found out that many 4F and those to young to serve signed up for MM during WWII.
 
I am a mom with no maritime experience, but with a son currently attending SUNY Maritime. This tragedy has been a stark reminder of the dangers of mother nature. I have been impressed with information and explanations on this thread.
 
When I had operational control of Navy Military Sealift Command ships and contract operated vessels, "to sortie or not to sortie" from port when a hurricane was in the picture was a major stomach acid inducing situation, involving weather folks and their best forecasts/guesses, my Port Captain and his experience, estimated times of transit, alternate routes, material condition of the ship, and cost to get underway/deviate. Plus - if all went wrong, what was the worst possible outcome, and potential human cost. For some ships, in lay berths, there was a go/no-go point at which they had to get down the Mississippi and into the Gulf, or they would be trapped in the river and could possibly cause traffic-stopping damage, take out a bridge, or destabilize a pier if left tied up and either battering it or pulling over pilings.
The conventional wisdom is deep-draft ships are safer in blue water, IF they have the sea room and time to maneuver. Yes, they can survive a hurricane or typhoon at sea, IF all goes well, and Murphy's Law and Mother Nature don't start dating. Loss of rudder or propulsion to keep steering capability, a rogue wave, cross-waves of a height that overwhelms stability, a failure of a topside watertight hatch door, cascading mechanical failures, pump failures, getting sideways and turning turtle - 21st century technology is no protection.

For all Navy, Coast Guard and merchant mariners who occasionally take flak for hot showers, warm bunks and hot food while others rough it, that all fades away in two of the scariest things at sea: fire and storms.

I would always lean, if I had to get yelled at, for spending money to crew up a ship and sortie it on a route away from a storm, or take the heat from the customer for deciding to keep it in port or take extra sailing days, fuel and delayed arrival, toward whatever kept crew safest.

Hubris is what I saw in this case, but we will probably never know all the details. My heart goes out to the families who lost someone. Very hard to think about what they went through.
 
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