College has Army ROTC/no Navy ROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by JSH123, Jun 10, 2016.

  1. JSH123

    JSH123 Member

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    I will be headed to University of Richmond on a 4-year Army ROTC scholarship this fall. Only Army ROTC is available to University of Richmond students. Long story short, I am looking to transfer out of University of Richmond (after the 1st year) and enter Navy ROTC (marine option) at a different college...Is this even a viable plan?
     
  2. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    So you want the Army to pay your first year knowing you are going to leave to go into the Navy? How about this...commit to the Army or decline the scholarship and try for a campus based nrotc scholarship.
     
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  3. Joos

    Joos Member

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    If you have no desire to be an army officer, it seems unwise to accept an Army ROTC scholarship
     
  4. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Just a dad

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    You are at a cross road here. You are one of the fortunate ones to receive a 4 year ticket to become a 2LT courtesy of the U.S. Army.

    Yes, the first year of an AROTC scholarship has a first year no-obligation escape clause.....but do you really want to be one of "those" cadets who enrolls under a false pretense, just to get tuition paid for the freshman year? It is like buying a suit from Macy's for a party and then returning it the next day. It might be legal, but it sure ain't right. It is certainly conduct unbecoming of a future officer and leader.

    I agree with Sheriff, you have two choices:
    1. Enroll in a college with NROTC, go non-contract and work your butt off to earn a side-load MO scholarship.
    2. Move forward with AROTC and become the best Army Cadet of your battalion and don't look back.

    A year ago, my DS had his heart broken when he got a TWE from USNA, and also did not receive an NROTC / MO scholarsip to an SMC. Instead he enrolled in the most financially affordable college near his home. It only had AROTC. He went in without a contract and did not look back at his Marine ambitions. In fact, he was approached by a PLC officer a few weeks into his MS-I year and was asked if he was interested in doing PLC concurrently with AROTC. By then he had bonded with his battalion and felt it would be wrong to play both sides. He turned them down and went on to earn a 3 year AROTC scholarship, three months into his freshman year.

    Commit to one thing and do it well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
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  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    You can transfer and join NROTC for your sophomore year. However it will be without the scholarship. The Army scholarship will not transfer. You would have to apply and win a Navy scholarship on your own (only if you have less than 30 credit hours) or enroll as a college programmer and win what the Navy calls a side-load scholarship.

    If you do AROTC freshman year, give it your all. You might find you're already in the right place.
     
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  6. Oldsalt

    Oldsalt Member

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    Kinnem,
    I believe he can apply for a national MO NROTC scholarship as long as he has not started his Sophomore year with the Army scholarship.
    You used to be able to do that, not sure if you still can.

    The question as to whether it's the right thing to do. Why not? There are no guarantees in the military. Looking at, and understanding options is part of being a leader.

    Does AROTC guarantee an active duty position or a career path? None of them do. (Ok, Marines do, but only to aviation.) You performed well enough to earn a 4 year. Investigating options in the first year is exactly what you are supposed to do.

    Apply for a MO NROTC scholarship. Perform well with your current unit and hopefully you will have 2 choices next fall to consider.

    JMHO,
    OS
     
  7. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I think you can't have more than 30 credit hours, or maybe it must be less than 30 credit hours. Of course things change so OP should investigate.
     
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  8. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Just a dad

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    From the NROTC website:
    Students w/30 or more semester hours or 45 or more quarter hours of college credit upon application are not eligible for four-year NROTC Scholarships; these students should see professors of naval science at host university's NROTC unit to discuss other scholarship opportunities.

    Source:
    http://www.nrotc.navy.mil/scholarship_criteria.html
     
  9. Humey

    Humey Member

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    Do what is best for you. No one else is going to do that. Serving in the military is going to be hard enough, you should at least be in the place that will make you happy. As for the money, its not like the Army scholarship and the Navy Scholarships come from different countries or even different departments. I can see people upset about taking the money the first year knowing you wont continue the second year. However, in your case, you are moving branches and you are gong to serve in the military one way or another. If you can take advantage of the system without breaking any laws or rules, I dont see what the problem is. I understand that there are limited number of scholarships and you took one technically away from someone who wants to be in the Army. Its not fair but life isnt fair.
     
  10. Infantry_Dad

    Infantry_Dad Member

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    I think you must ask yourself the following:
    1) Did I apply for the NROTC W/ MO scholarship? Was I granted it? , Did I apply for the AROTC scholarship, Was I granted it? If I accept the granted scholarship with the idea from day 1 of never serving as an officer in the United States Army am I being disingenuous with the Branch that offered my this opportunity and in fact just using them as a source to finance my first year? I would then refer to the Cadet Code of Honor from the Academies as this in spirit applies to all.
    Definitions of the tenets of the Honor Code
    LYING: Cadets violate the Honor Code by lying if they deliberately deceive another by stating an untruth or by any direct form of communication to include the telling of a partial truth and the vague or ambiguous use of information or language with the intent to deceive or mislead.

    CHEATING: A violation of cheating would occur if a Cadet fraudulently acted out of self-interest or assisted another to do so with the intent to gain or to give an unfair advantage. Cheating includes such acts as plagiarism (presenting someone else's ideas, words, data, or work as one's own without documentation), misrepresentation (failing to document the assistance of another in the preparation, revision, or proofreading of an assignment), and using unauthorized notes.

    STEALING: The wrongful taking, obtaining, or withholding by any means from the possession of the owner or any other person any money, personal property, article, or service of value of any kind, with intent to permanently deprive or defraud another person of the use and benefit of the property, or to appropriate it to either their own use or the use of any person other than the owner.

    TOLERATION: Cadets violate the Honor Code by tolerating if they fail to report an unresolved incident with honor implications to proper authority within a reasonable length of time. "Proper authority" includes the Commandant, the Assistant Commandant, the Director of Military Training, the Athletic Director, a tactical officer, teacher or coach. A "reasonable length of time" is the time it takes to confront the Cadet candidate suspected of the honor violation and decide whether the incident was a misunderstanding or a possible violation of the Honor Code. A reasonable length of time is usually considered not to exceed 24 hours.

    To have violated the honor code, a Cadet must have lied, cheated, stolen, or attempted to do so, or tolerated such action on the part of another Cadet. The procedural element of the Honor System examines the two elements that must be present for a Cadet to have committed an honor violation: the act and the intent to commit that act. The latter does not mean intent to violate the Honor Code, but rather the intent to commit the act itself.

    Three rules of thumb
    1. Does this action attempt to deceive anyone or allow anyone to be deceived?
    2. Does this action gain or allow the gain of privilege or advantage to which I or someone else would not otherwise be entitled?
    3. Would I be dissatisfied by the outcome if I were on the receiving end of this action?
     
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  11. AROTC-dad

    AROTC-dad Just a dad

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    +1 Infantry dad. (Go 10th Mountain!)

    In opinion, the Army offers the first freshman year an escape clause for those who try AROTC and realize that it is not meant for them. This allows them to actually walk away and not owe back the scholarship money. The Army wins, because they didn't spend four years investing in an unhappy and likely sub-par 2LT. The cadet wins, because although they gave it a try, they realized that the Army (or military in general) was not a good fit.

    If the intent of the cadet was go Army and then realized that the Army was not a good fit and they want to switch to the AF or Navy, then that is okay too, so long as the shift occurred after a bona fide attempt to succeed in AROTC.

    I believe that planning ahead of time to "game" the system with a premeditated switch after gaining a free year at the Army's expense is unethical. That is just my opinion.
     
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  12. Dckc88

    Dckc88 Member

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    I agree with the last two posts. I am questioning why you applied for an Army ROTC scholarship in the first place? However, I do understand we all have the right to change our minds. I do also understand the whole, "look out for yourself" argument too, but only if it is with integrity. Yes you can walk away after a year, but you should only sign the contract granting you your scholarship with the full intention of actually honoring the contract. Going into a contract knowing you will definitely jump through the loophole, in my opinion, is not honest and lacking integrity. In the end, you are the one that has to live with your own actions, but by posting on a public forum, you might actually get some not so favorable opinions. Good luck to you, I hope you are able to come to a decision that you feel good about, whichever way it goes.

    My favorite quote:
    "Whatever you are, be a good one." - Abraham Lincoln
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Looking beyond whether your plan is ethical or not, that's a whole different discussion, remember that NROTC is not a sign up and simply go through the four years to a commission if you do not have a scholarship. Mids compete for Advance Standing at the end of their sophomore year, if you go per your plan you will be new to the program starting your sophomore year. You will be competing with Mids that have been in the program for a year already, proving themselves, getting noticed, and gaining experience. The road to Advance Standing could be a rocky one, you will have to consider the fact that there may not be enough slots for the number of Mids competing, you could end up out in the cold.

    My advice would be, if Navy is what you're set on then jump into NROTC with both feet your freshman year, start at the school that has NROTC and join as a College Programmer. Doing AROTC the first year just to get that year paid for, then not only switching programs but switching schools as well can be a risky proposition as far as actually commissioning.
     
  14. DeskJockey

    DeskJockey Member

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    Right now, all you have are a set of preferences that are based on certain assumptions you have made about the Army, the Marine Corps, college life, and what you envision yourself doing in the future. Those assumptions are not necessarily going to match up with reality, which is why I think it is in your best interest to keep your mind, your eyes, and your options as wide open as possible. There is nothing unethical or ignoble about using the AROTC scholarship for your freshman year, even if you are not sure - or even seriously doubt - that you want to be commissioned as an Army officer. The Army is willing to give you a year to explore that possibility, and you may as well take it. You may find that the Army is a good fit for you, or that you are willing to accept it in order to pay for school; or perhaps you will want to follow some other path, either with the Marines or in something non-military altogether.

    The good news is that if you do decide next year that you really want to be a Marine Officer, you will have a number of options. If you can afford Richmond without a ROTC scholarship, you can stay there and earn your commission in the summer PLC program; or you can transfer to another school with NROTC and try to commission that way, with the PLC option available to you as a fallback position if you don't get selected for advanced standing.

    Finally, as you are now entering adulthood, it is time to understand that a successful life is mostly about making judicious compromises. It may well be worth pursuing an Army commission, even if you don't think it is as personally desirable as a Marine Corps commission, because it will allow you to obtain a tuition-free education at an excellent university - which may well be significantly more advantageous in the long run. My advice is to use this first year to gain the insight you need to make a wise decision for yourself a year from now.
     
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