Columbia University ROTC Announcement

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by patentesq, Feb 20, 2011.

  1. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    A group of faculty members at Columbia Univerisity is expected to announce support tomorrow for the return of ROTC to the Columbia campus. Take a look at this article, though: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/hero_unwelcome_Zi3u1fwtRpo87vXAiAQfSN

    What happened this week at Columbia is disturbing. Mr. Maschek is truly a hero, both on the battlefield and off. Some people simply do not appreciate how lucky they are. Fortunately, not all colleges feel the same way about ROTC.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2011
  2. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Mostly just a bunch of spoiled, rich kids embracing their First Amendment rights to make fools of themselves.

    If only there existed an body of people who's purpose was to ensure they always have that right, even if it meant fighting others in their stead to ensure it....

    If only.... :wink:
     
  3. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Bullet, you just totally made me laugh!!! :thumb:
     
  4. jdalv2

    jdalv2 Member

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    I've always said and I'll say it again that it's one thing to criticize the government and the military action that it takes, but it's completely inappropriate to criticize military members- especially those wounded in service.

    These kids are dumb and ignorant but, hey, what can you do?
     
  5. tonk002

    tonk002 Member

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    A portion of the students at Columbia may be ignorant, yes, and what they said was out of line. But the students are not dumb. Columbia is one of the finest institutions in the country.
     
  6. rkrosnar

    rkrosnar Member

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    Columbia University....

    I wonder what those students would do, if they have to go to war (fight) for their freedom. But, then again, they probably don't, because thank GOD, that someone else is willing to stand up and do it. I thank GOD for the freedom and the military of this country everyday.



    RGK
     
  7. sweettooth

    sweettooth Parent

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    Columbia University's student newspaper the Columbia Spectator
    HTML:
    http://www.columbiaspectator.com/
    has detailed coverage of the ROTC debate on campus and has a link the the audio of this meeting where Mr Mascheck was heckled. The newpaper's editorial board came out in support of the return of ROTC.
    HTML:
    http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2011/02/21/vote-yes
    I tried to link the audio here but couldn't get it to work. Below is a copy the blog entry which contains the link to the audio.


    rotc Task Force releases audio of veteran’s speech in ROTC hearingBy Mikey Zhong

    In response to the recent controversy over one particular speaker-to-audience interaction—a former veteran from Iraq who was reportedly heckled during his speech—the Task Force on Military Engagement has released an audio recording of that particular segment of the hearing. The recording can be listened to here.

    The New York Post published a story on the incident today that has attracted attention around the Internet.

    The veteran who spoke, Anthony Maschek, 28 and a GS freshman, was shot nine times while in combat and was awarded a Purple Heart. During his speech, some students allegedly yelled “racist” and others “laughed and jeered,” according to the Post. In the released audio, remarks of “racist” can be heard at the 2:29 mark and the alleged jeering occurred from the 1:26 to 1:35 period.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Maybe in all of their Lit, jourmalism, History an law classes they should read this poem:

     
  9. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Columbia and ROTC

    After listening to the entire audio clip, I conclude this was a typical bit of yellow journalism by the New York Post which took a relatively small iinterruption and blew it out of proportion. That FOX News tried to run with it is also par for the course.

    Here is a link to the audio portion as provided by the Columbia Spectator.

    www.columbia.edu/cu/senate/militaryengagement/20110215clip.mp3

    If you listen to the clip you'll find that (1) there was very little interruption and (2) the audience was in general respectful of the veteran's presentation, applauding him generously at the conclusion.

    It is true there were guffaws and catcalls a couple of times, but this was clearly a minority of the audience.

    I would not be surprised if Columbia opts to restore ROTC.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would be surprised if they did restore ROTC. And if they did, I would be one who would believe it was tied to federal funding which forced their hand to do it.

    Columbia has been known to be very left tilting. Young Republicans were booted from their campus yrs ago. This is also a college who used their funds to invite Alhmendijad to speak at the campus.

    They are also the campus that attacked the founder of Minute Men a few yrs back.

    http://www.nysun.com/new-york/at-columbia-students-attack-minuteman-founder/41020/

    I think they also taunted Tom Tancredo at his speech at Columbia.

    Columbia is located in one of the most liberal cities in the US. They may say they want freedom of speech, but I am not sure they want it if it is not their political position.
     
  11. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    What a great blog.

    I am not a fan of blog's being used on forums, but this one summed it up

    Imagine being a student and your peers heckling you?

    Anyone who can defend heckling another student IMPO should be labeled what they are labeled in the public school system...A BULLY! No school K-12 would allow that treatment to another student. No parent here or anywhere would allow that to occur in their school. Could you imagine a wheelchair bound child who sustained their paralysis for protecting another child being heckled? That is what he did. He put his life on the line to protect all of us, including those kids at Columbia.

    I guess since this is a private school, we should just turn a blind's eye, afterall, it is a private college and he knew what he was getting into.

    OBTW I also loved this statement:
    Maybe Columbia should absorb that fact when they are educating the next generation. I feel pity for these kids. They believe in supporting society, the ones in pain, yet, they have no compassion for those who guaranteed them that right. THE NJ GIRL in PIMA, has a few choice words for them, but PIMA the poster knows she will be probably be banned if she wrote them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  13. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    I can't imagine that the Pentagon will be overjoyed (fiscally speaking) about opening new ROTC detachments. While Columbia may be ready to announce they're ready for ROTC, that does NOT mean the government will feel compelled to oblige.
     
  14. Casey

    Casey USMA 2015

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    I would be interested to hear the entire debate, and not just this man's speech as it would be interesting to see if the audience had similar reactions at any other point to any of the other speakers. That said, I think that it was disrespectful for the audience to act in this way considering the sacrifices he made for our country. No matter your opinions on the wars our nation engages in, you should be respectful of all veterans and their service.
     
  15. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    EDelahanty,

    You are correct, this is very much a case of yellow journalism.

    Mostly because the NY Post decided to focus on the wrong issue here. Yes, it is upsetting that these students at Columbia (however few) could heckle and jeer an injured war veteran, and their actions are justifiably met with scorn and derision by those who see this as disrespectful and cowardly.

    But the real issue here, and one a rag like the NY Post is too low-brow to analyze and assess, is the fact that this debate clearly shows the Student elite at Columbia have been using the DADT policy of the US military as a sham, a poor excuse for their justifications to ban ROTC from their campus and the military from their lives. No, they don't want to be anywhere near the military simply because they despise the military and all it represents, and despise those who would join. With the removal of DADT, their excuse is no longer valid, but they fight the introduction of ROTC on their campus anyway, because to them the military is the boogie-man, an evil organization with no humanely purpose or need in the "perfect" world they wish to live in. Their naivete and ignorance is on full display for all to see here, and that is the shame.

    When did they heckle this veteran? When he tried to explain to them that, no matter how much they want to project their own naivete and hope for peace onto the rest of the world, there are many who simply choose not be be as "civil" as these ignorant fools. And for that (his pointing out of their naivete), a man intimately familiar with how some in this world view Americans (even those attending elite institutions of higher learning in NY) was ridiculed for stating the facts of this world.

    A shame. On NY Post for once again dumbing down the discussion, on the students of Columbia for not understanding that the person who least wants to go to war is the one who will fight it, and on their professors who support their efforts rather than telling them the truth: that the US military has NO BEARING on when and where America fights; they simply carry out those orders of American policy.

    I do agree with you that eventually a ROTC detachment will be present on the campus of Columbia. and that is a good thing. The profession of arms has been viewed by the majority attending the elite institutions of the East Coast Ivies as an evil organization, mostly due to ignorance and the fact it was "cool" to do so. Too few of our military leaders are emerging with backgrounds from these institutions, and it is time for that trend to stop. Outside of the Service Academies, it has been viewed that the East Coast Ivies are the schools of choice for America's best and brightest, and their prejudices against military service has diminished a vital source of outstanding individuals from joining the profession of arms. It is time for "the next generation of America's elite" to see the military for the nobleness that it espouses, and to be proud to serve their country by joining its ranks.

    The students attending these institutions ARE passionate. That passion would be a tremendous contribution to our Armed Forces, if only they weren't so afraid of "the boogie-man".
     
  16. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Columbia and ROTC

    Thank you, Bullet, for your eloquent post. It certainly can't hurt to have more officers who have the perspective of having read the Iliad, Thucydides and Hobbes, which were at least when I was there part of the core curriculum at Columbia (though these are of admittedly limited immediate use to a second lieutenant).

    Among the benefits (and challenges) of having an ROTC presence in a university environment is the inherent conflict between academic and military mindsets. On the one hand there is the disciplined, obedient and necessarily hierarchical nature of the military; on the other there is the pursuit of thinking for oneself: to question, to challenge, to debate. Some have argued that when properly melded, the product is the equal of the service academies.

    By the way, not many are aware that in the late 1940s Dwight Eisenhower served as President of Columbia University.
     
  17. sweettooth

    sweettooth Parent

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    I agree but what makes you think that most of the people attending this meeting were not ashamed to hear these insults?

    The decision to kick out ROTC was made 20 years before the current freshman were born. This debate came to the forefront with the repeal of DADT. In my experience it's parents who want the finest military in the world with no tax increases and absolutely no possibilty of their kid having to serve, not the kids.

    I agree, but I don't know that their professors have not told them the role of the US military in our democracy.

    I agree!

    I think you are generalizing a great deal and not giving enough due to Columbia students. There are those who you accurately describe but also many kids from across the US as well as international students who are great young people and do not deserve to be so broadly and harshly characterized and condemned. More ROTC units at our elite universities is a great opportunity for students and the military.
     
  18. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    The problem at Columbia is not the students. I blame the faculty.
     
  19. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I seem to recall there being a program for officers assigned to USMA as Tacs (or whatever they call them up there) to get graduate degrees at Columbia. Am I wrong? I'm pretty sure I have a classmate from VMI who did this. If that's the case, I think it shows that the university isn't totally as anti-military as certain segments in the press would like it to be.

    I'm not sure the actions of a vocal minority at this event, who were clearly disrespectful, represent the broader position of Columbia University or the majority of the CU students and faculty. I won't deny that there is an anti-military element there, but I'm not sure that's different from most colleges and universites.

    I hope that CU and the other Ivys do get ROTC on their campuses (assuming DOD is willing to give it to them). I think the military would only benefit from it.

    Here is an article from CU's student paper, and it has the response of some of the students in attendance. Yes, there were boos and laughing; however, it seems that more students applauded the veteran than booed him.

    http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2011/02/22/students-surprised-worried-national-media-coverage-rotc

    I like this quote from the veteran who was booed:

    "Thus far, my fellow students have been very interested in hearing about my past life and military experiences. Columbia has been attempting to get more veterans to share their experiences here, and the atmosphere here has been supportive despite the actions of a very small minority of the town hall participants.”
     
  20. sweettooth

    sweettooth Parent

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