commissioning rate

Discussion in 'Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges' started by vamom, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. vamom

    vamom Member

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    Can anyone state here, factually and without personal bias, the percent of cadets who graduate from the SMC's with commission?

    Along those same lines, what percentage of the cadets from the SMC's do not pursue the military as a career?

    I have just read three official documents that cite an 80%+ commissoning rate for VirginiaTech Corps of Cadets. These recent studies indicated a commissioning rate at VMI, TAMU etc. as betweem 35% and 50%. Is there anyone who would like to explain this? I am very interested in the disparity.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  2. larry2013

    larry2013 Member

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    I believe that at VMI last year they had total 57%commission rate for class of 2012. I do not have the numbers for this years class yet. I know that the supt at VMI has a goal of 75-80% rate. One of the beliefs at VMI is a citizen soldier - I have come to understand that Army has different paths for commissioning - Army can commission into Active duty, reserve, and national guard. I know that Marine Corps and Navy (and I believe Air Force) only have commissioning path into Active duty upon graduation. I hope that helps and I am sure someone else will chime in with better info - larrys mom
     
  3. vamom

    vamom Member

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    Thank you. I look forward to having someone post the actual numbers as VTCC also takes the "citizen-soldier" approach as well, with about 20% of the VTCC participating in the Citizen Leader Track, whick is not affilitate with any of the ROTC's. There seems to be so much knowledge on this site.....I'm sure that this information is readily available.
     
  4. vamom

    vamom Member

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    These studies also listed the average GPA of entering classes into the SMA's and the average GPA of the graduating classes, along with the breakdown of majors. I think it was VERY interesting!

    If this site is really a resource to assist young adults make the best personal decisions for themselves regarding service to country, I think these metrics would be a very smart addition to this thread.
     
  5. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I'm curious about the 80% commissioning rate from VaTech that you are quoting ? That seems pretty high to me. That would imply that every one of the cadets who took ROTC actually commissioned as the VaTechCC Web site indicates that a little more than 20% of the VaTech Cadets were in the Civilian leader track in which they don't take any ROTC classes ( and thus aren't eligible for being considered for a commission at all)?
    As Larry2013 indicates the VMI class of 2012 wound up commissioning about 57% after all of them finished LDAC (of which there were quite a few who didn't go until post graduation and several who graduated in December). I haven't followed it this year though I suspect that the number will be lower this year as the AF has reduced significantly.
     
  6. vamom

    vamom Member

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    I will post the info from which gained this info.
     
  7. vamom

    vamom Member

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  8. glen

    glen Member

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    Commissioning % from Senior Military Colleges

    Hi - you will not easily find these for most Senior Military Colleges either because they don't wish to publish them or more likely they wish to embelish their numbers. Also numbers for graduating classes don't tell the whole story as some seniors may not have met all requirements by graduation and are later commissioned, and some decline a commission and later go through OCS. The Citadel does publish its numbers and you can find a profile of its Corps of Cadets graduating class each May - the numbers are on the Public Information Officers page - under News Archives and Class profiles. For The Citadel Class of 2012 there were 452 graduating seniors, including MECEP Students, veteran students and Cadets who left for military service and returned to graduate with their class as veterans. 183 accepted officer commissions in one of the armed services - or about 40% of the class which is typical. The remaining graduating seniors either postpone accepting a commission until completing grad school or OCS, were not offered or declined a commission, or were not medically qualified. Unless on a military scholarship, cadets at Senior Military Colleges are not required to accept a commission, although all are required to complete ROTC courses.
     
  9. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    These are tough to pin down.

    Most stats released would be for classes from 2003 to 2011 where scholarships were abdundent and opportunities for commisisoning were unlimited. It's going to be a little different the next four years. Most likely there will be less opportunity. That said, we still need to defend ourselves so there is still an opportunity for those who wish to commission. Just got to do your very best.
     
  10. 12Parent

    12Parent Member

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    I agree completely. My DS graduated from VMI in 2012. He had BR's who had no intention of pursuing a commission. They took ROTC courses as required but that was not why they attended VMI. In other words, they did not refuse a commission as much as they took no action to be considered for one.

    I don't know the stats for VMI or Virginia Tech but it does not surprise me that the Corp of Cadets at Virginia Tech has a higher rate. Those cadets are in ROTC with, I presume, a military career in mind. Not necessarily the case at VMI.

    I would expect TAMU to be comparable to Tech however. If that is not the case, I would be surprised.
     
  11. bob80q

    bob80q bob80q Banned

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    VaTech commissioned 78 officers in 2012; based on their stated enrollment of 800 in their Corps of Cadets this is just under 10% - somebody needs to check their math. Per the information posted on their websites for 2012 VMI commissioned 42% of grads, The Citadel 38%; The Citadel had the most overall commissions last year with 183, TAMU had 179, VMI 102.
    I
     
  12. bob80q

    bob80q bob80q Banned

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    as a follow on: the article posted by VaMom is an unofficial civilian publication that cant be considered accurate, the 82% for VaTech is either a typo or came from someone who simply didnt have their facts straight. Also schools dont typically track graduates after they leave so its hard to establish numbers for those who commission after they leave a school, I would be highly skeptical of the claim that 15% of VMI cadets receive a commission after graduation.
     
  13. larry2013

    larry2013 Member

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    I realized after my first post on this subject, that I didnt identify the VMI class 2012 graduates- looked into my past issues of THE INSTITUTE REPORT

    Taken from the INSTITUTE REPORT - JUNE 2012 issue -page 10 -
    244 cadets, 217 members of class of 2012 received diplomas may 16th -
    from page 15 - more than 100 commission on may 15 2012 - 56 army, 20 marines, 11 Air force second lieutenants, and 15 navy ensigns
    the graduate number above only identifies those that graduated that day, not the december ones. I believe at VMI a cadet remains indentified with his class, regardless of graduation date.
    I know that VMI keeps very close look at classes, cadets, commissioning rate so would imagine the 57% for 2012 accounts for cadets within that class that graduated early or late by a semester or 2. The Vision 2039 project has as one goal, to bring the commissioning rate up into the 75%+ range. This is where remembering the Army way -mulitple commissioning sources - active Army, reserve Army, and National Guard.

    As for the Class of 2013 - we started this last year with above 300 in class I believe. Commissioning is May 15, 2013 - so will see exact number commissioning at that time.
    I hope this clarification helps, larrys mom
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
  14. vamom

    vamom Member

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    I'm not sure why everyone is so defensive about this seemingly simple question. Of the seniors who graduate at the Sr. Military Colleges, the commisioning rate of those at VT is 80% +. The commissioning rate at VMI and TAMU (again, among graduating seniors), is much lower. I may have referenced a "civilian" document but this statement holds true in every publication that I have read...civilian and military.

    So if my numbers are wrong, can anyone tell me, for example, for the Class of 2012, what percentage of seniors at each of the Senior Military Colleges graduated with commissions? Why does this question seem to be so sensitive for those who have posted on this thread? It is important information and it is readily available. And if my son were considering the military as a career and deciding among a Senior Military College, this is information that I would surely want to know and that I would think those on this site would be happy to provide. I'm perplexed as to the undertones here?

    So, if my numbers are wrong from the article I posted, will someone step up and provide the correct ones without a lot of irrelevant info? What percentage of graduating seniors at SMC's graduated with a commission? Anyone? Everyone on here seems to be so knowledgeable, this question can not be that difficult to answer. Or is it ?
     
  15. vamom

    vamom Member

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    These stats came from the ROTC units at each of the SMC's below. Just because a publication is "civilian" , one should not assume that they have not done their due diligence. If anyone can provide information that refutes the numbers below, please do so. It would, again, help those students who are looking at information on this forum to make decisions. It's not about ego or what yoru own alma mata might be, I would hope!

    1) The Citadel
    Public, Charleston, S.C.
    Established in 1842
    • Interesting school fact: On Jan. 9, 1861, Citadel cadets stationed on Morris Island fired on a U.S. steamer as it attempted to supply Fort Sumter. This was the first overt act of the Civil War.
    • Population: 2,157 cadets, 3,390 students total
    • Offers graduate program: Yes
    • Majors/degrees: 19 bachelors, 13 masters
    • Acceptance rate: 77 percent
    • Freshmen retention rate: 82 percent in 2010
    • Four-year graduation rate: 63 percent
    • Average SAT: 1092
    • Tuition and fees: $40,701 for out-of-state freshmen
    • ROTC programs: Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy
    • Students commissioned: 169 cadets in 2010-2011 year
    • Student/teacher ratio: 13:1
    • Website: citadel.edu
    2) Virginia Military Institute
    Public, Lexington, Va.
    Established in 1839
    • Interesting school fact: VMI is the only college in America whose entire student body was committed to battle when about 260 cadets charged into cannon fire during the Civil War Battle of New Market. Their participation changed the course of the battle.
    • Population: 1,569
    • Offers graduate program: No
    • Majors/degrees: 14
    • Acceptance rate: 45 percent
    • Freshmen retention rate: 83.5 percent
    • Four-year graduation rate: 60 percent
    • Average SAT: 1155
    • Tuition and fees: $39,810 out-of-state
    • ROTC programs: Air Force, Army, Marine Corps, Navy
    • Students commission: About 50 percent, and 18 percent make the military a lifelong career
    • Student/teacher ratio: 11:1
    • Website: vmi.edu
    3) North Georgia College and State University
    Public, Dahlonega, Ga.
    Established in 1873
    • Population: 800 in Corps of Cadets, which is 13 percent of total population of 6,100
    • Offers graduate program: Yes
    • Majors/degrees: More than 50
    • Acceptance rate: 56 percent
    • Freshmen retention rate: 77.5 percent
    • Four-year graduation rate: 27 percent
    • Average SAT: 1090
    • Tuition and fees: $18,061 for cadet enrollment
    • ROTC programs: Army
    • Students commissioned: About 70 commission each year.
    • Student/teacher ratio: 18:1
    • Website: northgeorgia.edu
    4) Norwich University
    Private, Northfield, Vt.
    Established in 1819
    • Population: About 2,300 undergraduate/1,100 graduate; 60 percent of undergraduate student body is Corps of Cadets
    • Offers graduate program: Yes
    • Majors/degrees: 30 bachelors, 10 masters
    • Acceptance rate: 56 percent
    • Freshmen retention rate: 85 percent
    • Four-year graduation rate: 43 percent
    • Average SAT: 1100
    • Tuition: $30,048
    • ROTC programs: Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy
    • Students commissioned: 61 percent
    • Student/teacher ratio: 14:1
    • Website: norwich.edu
    5) Texas A&M University
    Public, College Station, Texas
    Established in 1876
    • Population: Almost 50,000; 2,100 in Corps of Cadets
    • Offers graduate program: Yes
    • Majors/degrees: 165 undergraduate; 163 master's; 95 doctoral
    • Acceptance rate: 63.5 percent
    • Freshmen retention rate: 92 percent
    • Graduation rate: 51 percent
    • Average SAT: 1207
    • Tuition and fees: $36,111 for nonresident undergraduate
    • ROTC programs: Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy
    • Students commissioned: 185 in the 2010-2011 year
    • Student/teacher ratio: 21:1
    • Website: tamu.edu
    6) Virginia Tech
    Public, Blacksburg, Va.
    Established in 1872
    • Population: More than 30,000; 949 in 2011-2012 Corps of Cadets
    • Offers graduate program: Yes
    • Majors/degrees: 65 bachelors, 150 master's/doctoral programs
    • Acceptance rate: 67 percent
    • Freshmen retention rate: 91.8 percent
    • Graduation rate: 53 percent
    • Average SAT: 1250
    • Tuition and fees: $23,217 undergraduate out-of-state
    • ROTC programs: Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Navy
    • Students commissioned: More than 82 percent of seniors commissioned in 2011
    • Student/teacher ratio: 16:1
    • Website: vt.edu
     
  16. vamom

    vamom Member

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    I believe the stats that VT posts include all ROTC members which make up about 80% of the VTCC. So my question should change slightly....what percentage of ROTC graduation seniors at each of the SMC's receive a commission. Is that better? At VT, only about 20% of the Corp is non-ROTC. That number, I understand, is much highter at VMI. ?
     
  17. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I think your numbers are reasonable as most of the cadets that do not want a commission likely leave the CoC at VT but not necessarily the university prior to their senior year. At VMI and the Citadel, all students are in the CoC even if they do not desire a commission. TAMU has a leadership certificate program within the CoC that juniors and seniors participate in if they do not want to pursue a commission but wish to remain in the CoC. They seem to promote this leadership track. Therefore they have quite a few members of the CoC that are not pursueing a commission.
     
  18. 12Parent

    12Parent Member

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    At the risk of repeating much of what Packer wrote, you need to compare apples and apples. VMI cadets are required to take ROTC all four years whether they intend to commission or not. At Tech, most of the students not opting for a commission are probably gone from the ROTC programs after their Sophomore year. The real comparison would be in how many Seniors who had been taking the steps to commission actually achieve that goal. I have not seen a statistic like that but I would guess that there would not be much difference.
     
  19. vamom

    vamom Member

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    Thanks to everyone who replied to my original post. I'm still confused, but have a little more "background" now in order to satisfy my curiosity. As always, most on this site are very generous with their knowledge. I'm still determined to find an answer to my question......but now I know more about how to go about getting that information. Thanks everyone!
    p.s. my original post was the result of a good friends remark to me. Her son is a SR at VMI and she said that "neither he nor any of his buds at VMI had ever planned to go into the military". That struck me as odd and thus, my post and question.
     
  20. vamom

    vamom Member

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    I think yoiu mkae a very good point given the differences in the way the various institutions are set up. A valid number would be the percentage of SENIORS who commission. Additionally, the information that I posted regarding the GPA, etc. is verifiably valid and it still gives those who are deciding a good idea of some of the +'s and -'s of each of the SMA's. I hope future cadets take the time to research things like the kind of data presented there and not just read a bunch of "public relations" posts that may or may not be in the best interested of the student, but rather to further promote or "glorify" one's own alma mater. Good luck to all of your ROTC students who are making big decisions as to where you would like to land re: which SMC.
     

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