company assignments

I don't think you can call the substandard conditions of company 5's housing rumors when parents are getting word straight from their DS on how disgusting the place is. Are they stuck there for the year? Since this dorm is so bad no DS should have to endure this for a full year and everyone should be rotated thru -

Okay, now I feel a need to weigh in on this.

Rogers was always considered the "best" of the old barracks, with Cleveland not too far behind.

Rogers Hall (where I'm guessing 5th Co is being berthed) was nowhere near as bad as Murphy was before it was redone. Not even close. I lived in both buildings and Rogers was much cleaner, had better furniture and much less problems with things like internet connections and the heads/showers. There is a reason it was held out as being the last building to be remodeled (along with Cleveland which has been Band Co. for as long as I know) because it is/was in the best shape of the "old" barracks.

Palmer was even worse and I hear Jones Hall was the worst of the worst, which led to the initial closing and renovation of each barracks one by one. That's why there were only five companies until now, because there was always one barracks closed for remodeling. Since the powers that be have determined that Cleveland and Rogers are good enough for now (and other structures like Mallory Pier need immediate attention), they put off the rest of the barracks remodel and the availability of six barracks has now allowed for six companies again. Hence, the raise in appointees in the class of 2014.

Trust me, I lived in the old barracks for 2 years before being one of the lucky ones (First Company) to move into a newly redone Palmer Hall. Murphy literally was falling apart and was justifiably redone before the last two buildings. Plenty of my classmates did all four years in either Rogers or Cleveland. Hundreds of mids before them did the same thing. It can be depressing and inconvenient, but in no way dangerous. Unless it's really gone downhill in just one year, I wouldn't worry about it.

With few exceptions, company placement is random. They shouldn't rotate mids through the barracks because (aside from the logistics and hassle of moving buildings every few weeks), it helps you learn the values of maintaining the environment in which you live - just like being on an older ship or tug. It may be old, dilapidated, unsightly and grimy - but it's the only thing keeping you in and the water out. You learn to love it.



P.S. - One thing we did miss about the old barracks was that there it was much easier to keep your door open and there was much more of a "family" atmosphere and easy socializing. In the new buildings, the doors all have hydraulic closers and code pads to unlock them. Feels much more like an apartment building. You can block your door open, but the older feeling was just never there like it was in the old barracks with regular doors.

P.P.S. - Also, parents, no offense, but your DS/DD is fresh out of Indoc at a place they've only been at for two weeks and a few days. I know at this point I was venting, but also had little idea what I was talking about (probably was exaggerating too). I would like to believe that you can trust the KP leadership (both official and midshipman) that no one is actually being placed in harm's way.
 
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Just wait...their living conditions are all they can gripe about now. As they head into each trimester full steam ahead- you will hear them complain about important things like trying not to fail out of physics or calc. They will wish they had time to actually care what their room looks like- just hitting the bed before 1 or 2 am is a luxury during those busy study days. Always remember why your child chose the USMMA- it certainly wasn't for the acommodations!! If you wanted plush dorms for your DS or DD, you could have paid $50K and up for a school with luxury accommodations. It will all be OK:smile:
 
Just wait...their living conditions are all they can gripe about now. As they head into each trimester full steam ahead- you will hear them complain about important things like trying not to fail out of physics or calc. They will wish they had time to actually care what their room looks like- just hitting the bed before 1 or 2 am is a luxury during those busy study days. Always remember why your child chose the USMMA- it certainly wasn't for the acommodations!! If you wanted plush dorms for your DS or DD, you could have paid $50K and up for a school with luxury accommodations. It will all be OK:smile:

Nicely said, we as parents need to hear from other midshipmen ahead of our DS/DDs. I think we should thank all those posting here to help US :thumb:
 
accomadations

I don't think asking for furniture (desk) that is not broken and for a room that does not have leaking water on the floor is asking for luxury accomodations.
 
I'm not sure what you want done about it. ???

There are ways to deal with this without resorting to rotating everyone through, which (as I already pointed out) is impractical and illogical.

First, is the water leak from plumbing or from a leaky roof? No leak (of either kind) can be fixed until it's reported. They will learn how this works later on. Upperclass mids are generally resourceful and keep a sense of humor about stuff like this. They will be just fine.

Second, Rogers Hall received lots of new furniture when I was there - maybe three years ago or so. If it's already in such a sad state of disrepair (doubtful since it was mostly fairly heavy metal), the mids would have mostly themselves to blame. I got to spend two years with the lovely rememants of Murphy Hall's "furniture". Rogers was much nicer. I thought it was horrible too until I went over to First Company and saw the Murph.

Spend some time on Mallory Pier (if you dare) and you'll understand why the decision was made to deal with that, first.

To be frank, you should be excited that he is there and made it through Indoc. The alternative to using Rogers Hall and creating a 5th company was to have a smaller entering class and who knows which of the members of 2014 would not have made the cut.
 
it is what it is

I had a real nice conversation with some folks from up north this evening who helped me get a little perspective and recognize that whatever is going to be is going to be, that getting upset with anything is not going to help, and may be detrimental. I lived in some rat holes in college and law school and I didn't dwell on the living conditions of others, I just focused on what I was there for. All we can do is hope and pray all the p/c 's overcome whatever obstacle is before them; I for one am going to try and stop eating my liver out, let go and have faith my d/s will see it through. What else can I do?
 
Rogers hall is in fairly bad shape but your ds or dd will get used to it. There will be bigger things for them to worry about than the living conditions they have. When I left Rogers in June I don't remember there being any water leaks or anything like that. The furniture was in fairly good shape except 2nd and flight deck did have some of the older wooden furniture that had been falling apart, and none of the metal furniture really matched in the rooms. It was fairly cramped in the rooms with three plebes per room but it wasn't unbearable. I had two personal fans for myself and my roommates each had at least one fan and we were fine. It'll all work out for them. The plebe candidates are still getting used to the Academy itself and it's gotta be a little different to be moved from the new barracks to the older barracks with no air conditioning. They will eventually get used to it and move on to worrying about passing classes and getting around all the restrictions given to the plebe candidates. Anyone who has been through plebe year knows what i mean.
 
jjohnson55 - You are absolutely correct. All we can do is trust our kids to deal with it. We can't change the conditions and poking our noses in will only cause trouble (and most likely make your kid very angry with you). They learn to roll with the punches and focus on what's important.

If it's any consolation to all parents of PCs, your kids are not the only ones who have things happen to them. Our DD is A split. She came back from sea, arrived at her grandparents' house at about 2 a.m. Saturday and reported to KP before noon on Sunday to discover she had no company or room assignment. She'd been released from her first company, but in such a way that she didn't end up on the list for the new company. She crashed on floor of some friends. She spent the next couple of days getting that sorted out while getting her sea project fully ready to turn in. She was frustrated and angry. But her response to us was "That's KP. You just deal with it."

Now, since she was a newcomer to that company, when they chose who to release for the new 5th co, she was moved again. She went from no AC, to AC (and gave her fans away), back to no AC. I guess it's good practice for being in the heat of the engine room.:wink: Seriously, conditions on board ship can vary widely. Each ship they are on during sea year will be different. Some crews are nice and fun, some aren't. Attention to detail can save your life on a ship. Better to learn that now trying to keep the barracks clean and pass inspections.

It's a hard process for parents. This is more like having your child enlist in the military than sending them off to college. I am still learning how to do this. I discovered the hard way this summer that no matter how much DD complains and says she hates it, she has a fierce, deep pride for the place. If anyone asks us, she likes it and is happy there. Period. End of story. Only she can say it's not exactly fun. How dare we imply anything negative by saying it's hard, but where she belongs? :eek:

The other side of this is that we are so incredibly proud of her! We don't worry about her being in a strange place on the far side of the world. She can hold her own in an engine room. She can find sushi in Japan. She can visit the DMZ in Korea with friends. And we don't worry! She's got it all under control and will cope with whatever KP throws at her because she has her eye on the prize. She WILL finish - on time! Because she is determined to do so. Of course, I expect she'll give us quite a few more gray hairs along the way. :thumb:

(My apologies for being so long-winded!)
 
living conditions

Re/living conditions in Rogers or Murphy or Cleveland...Keep in mind in the early days at KP the rooms your children are living in housed 4 cadets on 2 sets of bunk beds and held only 2 desks. The young men made do, shared desk space and often studied standing up b/c they were not allowed to sit or lie on their rack. There were no "fan privileges" even into the mid 70's and they all toughed it out. As was said earlier, this will be the least of their worries once classes begin and academics become their first priority. Help them stay focused on why they are there. At most colleges, students are unable to choose their housing or roommate as freshman. Some kids hit the jackpot if they are placed in the newest dorm with a great roommate while others land in the oldest housing on campus with 3 or 4 in a room and no closet space. Parents are paying the same price and it's probably more than we will ever pay for KP. As was said earlier, they never know what they will face when they get on a ship so learning to be flexible and resourceful is part of the KP experience. The good news is the horrific heat and humidity they endured during INDOC has subsided a bit so perhaps they will be a little more comfortable without AC if mother nature cooperates. Parents- hang in there. They'll figure it out.
 
KPMUM2012
I sent you a PM... I think... I'm never sure if they send because they don't show up immediately in my "Sent" box.
 
Method to the KP madness

Im sorry I don't want to come off sounding like your concerns are not legimate because they are to you. But after experiencing one year of KP I would love to have the dorm issues be the least of my worries.

Lets see class of 2013 started of with so many coming down with the flu in indoc they called them sick co some of them missing almost all of indoc and even going to er. They to experienced dorms with no A/C, that is why they are told to bring a fan. Then there was the whole bed bug issue. Oh and there was no hot water for awhile in one of the dorms. The best one was some of the plebes were put in one of the "wrong" physics class!!! So don't think that there aren't more challenges to come this year. But you know what they made it thru. And as some one posted earlier if you ask my DS if he likes it there he will tell you every time NO. BUT if given the choice to do it again, he wouldn't change his decision. Im afraid that my DS will be faced with having to go to 5th co when he gets back in Nov. He will not be coming back from sea but a setback. I don't think he knows this is happening and have decided it is better to deal with it when it and if it happens.

Not long after indoc was over my DS DID prefer to sleep on the floor instead of his bunk so he wouldn't have to make it up everyday!! Cleaning for hours at a time is what the plebes do!! Whether it is already clean or filthy they will clean and clean again. So believe me every plebe is starting out on a level playing field wether you believe it or not.

Parents as hard as it may be for us, just take a step back, they will deal with and figure it out on there own. We did not send them to a regular college for a reason. You might not believe it, and some times I still find it hard to believe, but some how there is a method to the madness that is KP.
 
Parents as hard as it may be for us, just take a step back, they will deal with and figure it out on there own. We did not send them to a regular college for a reason. You might not believe it, and some times I still find it hard to believe, but some how there is a method to the madness that is KP.

Well put pin2win...I have 2 in military colleges now and let me tell you this stuff goes on everywhere and produces fine young men and women...most that go on to be great leaders in our armed forces and maritime industry. Thanks for your insight...as it is great to hear...hard to hear, but great for all of us!

:thumb:
 
Noo, Nooo, Mr. Bill... Please ... please make these VOICEs in my head STOP...

I've tried, I really have to just ignore this whole thread but I cannot do so. Sorry just can't do it. There's so much implicit in the lack of understanding that creates the impetus for parents to post and ask about these kind of things and thoughts. I understand that, I really do, honestly however please for those who are upset and somehow feel such sentiments as:

"I don't think you can call the substandard conditions of company 5's housing rumors when parents are getting word straight from their DS on how disgusting the place is."

or others who vent with notes like:

"I don't think asking for furniture (desk) that is not broken and for a room that does not have leaking water on the floor is asking for luxury accommodations."

Please take a deep breadth, count to 10 and realize a couple of facts -

1) As noted by wrestler413 and kper2009 note, while Rogers Hall has not been fully renovated, it was not in mothballs and unoccupied, etc. any time recently. It was in use as late as the end of the last trimester - June.

2) As for the need for additional dorms and companies - it's likely NOT just because of the size of the entering class of 2014 - 343 biggest since the late 80's. The entering classes of 2012 and 2013 were also both just over 300. As noted the alternative to NOT opening and using all of the available dorms would have been a smaller entering Class of 2014. Given as I understand it the large size of the entering Class is in some part due to MORE PCs (a greater percentage) accepting their offered appointments into the Class of 2014 than have historically done so - take a minute and think what that would likely have meant. .... It likely would have meant that after being offered an appointment and saying yes, some of the current members of 2014 would have gotten letters along the lines of "just kidding, it turns out we don't have room for you" or something on that order. That likely would have been a total nightmare as I'm not even sure what or how the CFRs (Code of Federal Regulations" say about such situations, if they say anything at all.

3) As noted numerous places in this thread - the rumor mill, the exaggerations, the urban legends, etc that all go around - while all generally being grounded in some shred of reality, spread with regard to life in a closed society like the USMMA at a viral pace and the exaggerations, etc. are all exacerbated by the emotionally charged nature of the current timing (basically immediate post-Indoc) and the fact that I assure you as much as we all love our children - right now they are very likely over tired and at best "grouchy" to a high degree. Having parents - not young adults but full fledged adults react emotionally in protective reaction to their children, while understandable, really doesn't help the situation or them.

jjohnson55 has it right at this point
"it is what it is".

Finally and perhaps most importantly:
4)Please don't forget while your DS/DD is undergoing these horrible living conditions and the rest of the injustices and persecutions you WILL hopefully have the opportunity to hear about for the next 4 years, they are getting an excellent $200.000+ education at little cost to them or you. While on this road, they are paying their dues to become part of a fraternity that has the following benefit - historically over 95% of them will be in the Top 5% of wage earners in the Nation within 5 years of graduation. If that takes a little hardship and the cleaning of some halls and toilets, and even studying at a desk that isn't shiny and new and might be broken - isn't it worth it?

Ahh thank goodness, the voices are quiet for now at least...:confused:
 
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Duct tape and cable ties fix an incredible amount of things. one of the best things parents can do for their mids, in my opinion, is to send them a small toolkit (hammer, screwdrivers, pliers, wrenches, various fasteners, etc) and let them take the initiative in improving their own living space. truthfully, it takes forever for even the simplest things to get fixed around here, just due to the nature of the system for reporting these things. probably about 80% of the problems with desks, drawers, etc. can be remedied fairly easily with some simple tools and a little bit of ingenuity. add on to that the feeling of accomplishment that comes with fixing a problem thats been bugging you or one of your friends, and its really not that bad a deal. you can complain until youre blue in the face about how its unfair that the midshipmen/PCs have to resort to repairing their own dorms, but the reality is that complaining isnt going to turn a screw. sure, everything around here is constantly falling apart. but remember that in our community, about 50% of us will eventually be directly responsible for maintaining, as one instructor likes to put it, "a hundred-million dollar ship carrying nine-hundred million dollars worth of cargo." if fixing a desk is that huge an issue, im mildly concerned. i just wish i could fit an arc welder in my hideaway:biggrin:
 
Just consider yourself the valve on a pressure cooker!

Your p/c just wants you to listen and acknowledge their complaints.
They IN NO WAY want you to do anything about them (like call somebody, etc...)

As experienced "other" academy parents, we learned to say "Hmmmm, that's really a shame ". ALOT.

This week it is bad barracks. Next week, it will be 27 hours worth of work to fit in a 24 hour day. After that, it will be the terrible _____ professor (calculus, physics, engineering, you fill in the blank). And wait until you start hearing about exams where the average score is 22%! ( As a teacher, those complaints really got to me!:frown:)

After we figured out that every complaint wasn't really a major crisis, just a way of releasing tension, we joked that service academy cadets develop two hobbies: one is griping and the other is internet shopping - because they can't go anywhere.

Or maybe that was just our own kid!
 
Didn't you know that complaining is a varsity sport at KP? :yllol: Closely followed by rumor starting!
 
Many of our young deployed soldiers and past KPer's (current military officers) would give anything for one night in your PC's shoes. Be glad your PC has a bed to sleep in, a roof over their head, three hot meals a day, and no blowing sand. Sure, A/C would be nice. Sure, new furniture would be nice. Sure, new paint would be nice...but in the big picture, does it really matter.

Remember the 3 L's...
Listen,
Lend support and (most of all)
Love them.

The rest is on them.

Now…Go make lemonade!

God bless them all!

:tank:
 
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