Confused on Presidential Nomination

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by Drew_22, Jul 19, 2010.

  1. Drew_22

    Drew_22 USAFA Cadet

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    So today I mailed off my Presidential Nomination application along with the paper work that proves that I qualify for the nomination. My dad qualifies under the reserve “points system” and the retiree pay even though he is not 60 yet. I have been searching around for this answer all over the forum but I don’t think it has been explained to where I understand the whole process. My question is on my online application will it say under my nominations “Presidential” even though I haven’t necessarily used it the “Presidential”. Will I at least have it on my application? So I have at least 1 nomination already. Also how do they get to decide which candidates get the use the nomination? Is it based to the WCS or your parent’s ranking and service? I know only around 100 people per year actually get to use the nomination to get an appointment and around 500 apply for it but do I still have it on my application. I’ am a little confused. Your guys’ help will be much appreciated.
     
  2. USNA1982BGO

    USNA1982BGO Retired Staff Member

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    If you qualify for a Presidential nomination and all your paperwork is properly filled out and in order you will be given the nomination. I have never known any candidate who was eligible for a Presidential to ever not receive the nom.
    There will be an area on your candidate system that will indicate a PRES nomination.
    Only 100 cadets/mids with a Presidential nom may enter an Academy in one cycle.
    Therefore, it is in your best interest to pursue another source for a nom as a backup.
     
  3. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Everyone who applies for and is qualified for a Pres nom gets one. They are non-competitive. Each year, ~3000 applicants (or more) qualify for a Pres nom; only 100 of those are slotted to that source. A Pres nom alone MAY be enough but I wouldn't count on it. That is why you must apply for MOC noms if you want a good shot at an appointment.

    So, yes, you have 1 nom already, but so do many of your fellow applicants.

    USNA decides which of the Pres nominees will receive appointments. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with your parent(s) situation or status. The "slotting" of candidates to nominating sources is a very complicated issue. The short version is that the most competitve candidates typically get the appointments. Those with a Pres nom who aren't in the top 100 in terms of competitiveness and who USNA wants to receive an appointment may be slotted (assigned) to another source, such as SecNav.
     
  4. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Let me add to this.

    All you've read is correct; only 100 presidential nominee's are appointed in the PRESIDENTIAL category.

    The remaining nominee's are placed into the "qualified alternate" pool of candidates. Once all the MoC appointments are made, and other categories, the class will still be typically about 300-500 folks short of full.

    This is where the "qualified alternates" come in. They are then "racked and stacked" based upon their Weighted Composite Score and then the class if filled.

    That help?

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  5. Drew_22

    Drew_22 USAFA Cadet

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    Yes thanks alot of your replies. So your saying that if you are an alternate for a presidential, then you aren't going to be an early appointment for one?
     
  6. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Don't count on it. At least for USNA. I assume the others are the same. For the first 200 in the pool, they have to be either qualified alternates of Congressmen or Senators only:
    (clauses (3) and (4) are the Senators and Congressmen only. 50 of these 200 will come from the Supts selection.

    After this, if there are still more openings, the same applies except they add VP, and the 'territories' (Guam, Virgin Islands, :puerto Rica, etc) for three out of four and any other nomination for the remaining one of four. Therefore, first 150, MOCs only, then 50 Supt, and then after that one of four could possibly be from a Presidential 'alternate'. Example: If 300 were to come from the 'pool', only a maximum of 25 could come from the Presidential alternates.

    Common misconception. Not all alternates are created equal.

    Get as many nominatins as possible.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010
  7. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I think you're mixing up noms with appointments. You either have or don't have a Pres nomination. If you're eligible for one, you get one. There are no Presidential "alternates."

    You can have one or more noms and still not receive an appointment. You must have a nom from some source to receive an appointment.

    There are candidates with LOAs and the vast majority of candidates who don't have an LOA. If you have an LOA with a nom (and are o/w qualified), you are guaranteed an appointment. If you have a LOA w/o a nom, you may well NOT receive an appointment -- don't expect USNA at least (can't speak for other SAs) to "find" a nom for you. I had an LOA candidate last year who was turned down b/c he didn't have a nom.

    If you have a Pres nom, you can be offered an appointment as soon as USNA wants to give you one -- regardless of whether or not you have an LOA. As a general rule, however, non-LOA candidates with only Pres noms typically don't get appointments until late fall or after the first of the year. Note that I said "typically," not "universally."

    If you have an LOA and a Pres nom, you are guaranteed an appointment, assuming you're medically and physically (CFA) qualified.

    If you have a Pres nom and don't have an LOA, you go into the pool as described above, with selections made based on order of merit.
     
  8. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hmm... :scratch:

    I called USAFA/RRS to speak with my boss the registrar because this would go completely against what I've learned/known for 27+ years.

    BUT I am not so silly/stupid/arrogant to think I know it all, I have been proven wrong MANY times in my life! :yikes:

    So I did a little digging into 32 CFR 901, § 901.19 Qualified alternate selection. And I'll just quote it here in full:
    Fully qualified candidates not offered appointments in their nominating category are placed in a nationwide pool of qualified alternates. To bring the Cadet Wing up to full strength, additional appointments are selected from this pool in order of merit. The first 150 additional appointments are of individuals having nominations from Members of Congress. Thereafter, three of every four additional appointments are of individuals having nominations from the Vice President, Members of Congress, Delegates to Congress (from the District of Columbia, Virgin Islands, and Guam), Governor of Puerto Rico, Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico, or Administrator of Panama Canal Commission.

    THEN I spoke with my bosses.

    Their comments were:

    1. Get as many nominations as you can (we both agreed on that)
    2. Pres nominees without one of the 100 appts will go into the qualified alternate pool and will be rank ordered with all other qualified alternates.
    3. By agreements...the highest ranked of the QA's will be selected unless one of the above mentioned sources stipulates that the above order be followed regardless of qualification.

    What I gathered from that was (my supposition) that the SA's, or at least USAFA, has "agreements" with the various nominating agencies to select the BEST of the QA's for appointment, regardless of nomination source.

    Again, I may be incorrect in that "supposition" but based upon what they were telling me, at least for USAFA, that appears to be the case. It also might explain why several years ago one of our Senators nominated 20 students (he had 2 openings) and ended up with 16 appointments!

    He gave all my ALO's a nice letter for their records of thanks and appreciation.

    So...bottom line: I think perhaps the SA's differ a bit here but I would 100% agree with you: GET AS MANY NOM'S AS YOU CAN!! :thumb:

    Good info, thanks! It made this old ALO do some digging...always a good thing!!! :thumb:

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  9. falconchic88

    falconchic88 Member

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    Drew, since you are eligible for a Pres Nom, I would advise you to get your applications 100% completed as soon as posible. Our son (now a Plebe) had a pres Nom, and was given his appointment to USNA last Oct 22nd, before he even met the board for any of his MOC noms. I believe the competition just got stronger and stronger as the year went on as more and more applications came in. And yes, Your nom will show up on your application once its been processed.
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Actually, it looks as if both academies do it exactly the same. What is described here is exactly what I described above for USNA, only worded a little better. Presidential alternates only come into effect after the initial 150 and then only one out of four. Of course your Senator's 14 had priority in both the initial 150 and in 3/4 of all after that and are really not a factor when discussing Presidential alternate selections.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2010

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