Contracting w/o a Scholarship Eligibilitiy

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Frankie, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Frankie

    Frankie Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    2
    Out of pure bordum and curiousity, I'm curious to know if the same conditions of contracting w/ a scholarship are the same as w/o one, but not in the typical sense of US Citizenship and GPA, etc. but in those other conditions say..

    If you are in ROTC in college and say have a child or are married, can you still contract w/o a scholarship?

    Thank you for your time.

    P.S. I've tried googling this question for awhile, and it doesn't give me any straight answers. Usually it just sends me to a universities requirement for contracting (like GPA) or the GOARMY website which isn't any help.
     
  2. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    22
    I'm 99% sure that you can be. A friend of mine is a reservist that's contracting with AROTC at UNG next year, and fully intends on marrying his sweetheart next summer. He chose UNG because they're the only SMC that allows their cadets to be married.
     
  3. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    You can contract as a scholarship or non-scholarship cadet if you are married.

    If you are married and have a child you can contract.

    If you are single and have a child that you have any custody of, you cannot contract.
     
  4. Frankie

    Frankie Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2012
    Messages:
    169
    Likes Received:
    2
    So if you're married and have a child in which both parents have custody over, you can contract? Or does custody = No contract whatsoever?
     
  5. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    If your married and have a child you can contract.

    The issue is if you have a child and are not married. You cannot be a single parent with custody of a child and join the Army or contract in ROTC.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    Jcleppe, for the AF, you can be a single parent. You can contract, but they will ask for a "family plan". IOTW they want to know there is day care in place for the child.


    Army, maybe not, but AF, yes.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    Thanks for the info, I did not realize the AF allowed single parents to enlist or contract. Learning everyday.
     
  8. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    88
    On the Army side of the house, I've seen many family care plans fall apart as soon as deployment looms on the horizon. I'm suprised the AF is lenient in this aspect. I honestly can't tell if this leniency is a positive or a negative.
     
  9. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    537
    Likes Received:
    37
    From what I understand, you need much more than a family plan for in case something happens to you in the AF, you have to give up custody. We were given the condensed version of this contracting day where they told us you can get married, and can also be married with a child, but you cannot be a single parent and that it is imperative to contact them as soon as possible if something like that happens so that they can help you make the proper preparations needed to stay in AFROTC, if that possibility still exists. The regs i found regard enlistment, but if you can't enlist as a single parent, why would you be able to be one in AFROTC? I mean, the AF JUST kicked someone out for this last year : http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/us/us-air-force-mom/index.html?hpt=hp_c2
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2013
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    All I know was about 2 yrs ago there were 2 posters here that found their self pregnant. Both were non-scholarship cadets. One was Army, and one was AFROTC. Both were POCs, and both were allowed to stay.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,541
    Likes Received:
    842
    Were these cadets married or single?

    What is POC, that term is not used in AROTC.
     
  12. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    537
    Likes Received:
    37
    AFROTC Cadets are separated into two groups, GMC (general military course) and POC (professional officer course), and then there is separation of class and rank.

    GMC are underclass men who have yet to go to field training. They are like the cadet enlisted force.
    POC are upperclassmen who have graduated field training, this is when cadets w/o scholarship will contract and begin recieving a stipend. They are the cadet officers.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    I am positive the AFROTC cadet was not married. I believe in the end she did get engaged, but that occurred after she had been approved to stay. If I recall she was a 300,and it was in the spring, so they may have allowed her to stay because by the time the child was born, they would only have a semester left.

    I believe the AROTC cadet was not married either, but can't remember much more than that.
     
  14. Thompson

    Thompson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    43
    Jcleppe, our equivalent would be the advanced courses (requiring a contract) - MSIII and MSIV; while AF's would be AS300 & AS400 respectively.
     
  15. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    451
    CC Pam 145-4
    2-40 Dependents

    d. Criteria for determining eligibility.
    (1) The applicant must have no more than three dependents. Commander, Cadet Command, may grant a waiver for a married applicant requesting a waiver.
    (2) An unmarried applicant who has one or more dependents under 18 years old is disqualified, except as provided in (3) below. No waiver is authorized.
    (3) A divorced or sole parent applicant may be processed for enrollment without waiver when the child or children of such applicant have been placed in the custody of the other parent, adult relative, or legal guardian by court order, if the applicant is not required to provide child support. If the applicant is required to provide child support, a dependency waiver is required. The CG, Cadet Command, has the authority to grant the waiver. In both cases, the applicant must sign a statement of understanding that he or she will be disenrolled if custody of the child or children is regained while the applicant is enrolled in ROTC. DA Form 3286-69 (Statement for Enlistment-Parts I thru IV) will be used as a guide. An exception to the disenrollment may be granted only in extraordinary circumstances, such as the death of the legal guardian, or adult having custody of the child or children.
    (4) An applicant with a spouse in a military component of any armed service (excluding members of the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR)) who has one or more dependents under 18 years old is disqualified. No waiver is authorized.
    (5) Husband and wife teams who have one or more dependents under 18 years old are disqualified from enrollment in ROTC as a team. No waiver is authorized. Either the husband or wife may enroll without a waiver subject to other provisions of this Paragraph.
    e. Change in status. Once an applicant has contracted in the ROTC program, a change in the status or number of his or her dependents does not constitute cause for disenrollment, and does not require a waiver. However, if the number, status, or circumstances or a Cadets dependents adversely affects the Cadets performance of duty to the extent that the Cadet fails to fulfill the terms of the ROTC contract, he or she may be processed for disenrollment under AR 145-1, Paragraph 3-43a(7) or (16).
    f. Pregnancy. Pregnant applicants are ineligible to contract, but regain eligibility at the end of the pregnancy, once medically cleared. Contracted Cadets who become pregnant during the course will not be involuntarily disenrolled solely because of pregnancy (see Paragraph 2-40e above for additional information).

    I would be very surprised if the Air Force standards are any different.
    The cases you are all stating above pertain to pregnant after contracting or change in status after contracting. Scholarship or non scholarship is not a factor.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    In the end of the day, the true answer for the OP, is DON'T GET IN THE SITUATION WHERE THIS IS A QUESTION.

    I know from pm's to me that an AFROTC cadet as a POC was given a waiver. Think of a pregnancy as a waiver. It is case by case, and not somewhere you want to be.

    To state one branch is the same as another without placing into the equation critical manpower needs, is in IMPO wrong.

    AF is different than Army because 100% of their ROTC grads will go ADAF. There is no reserve, no guard option.

    I respect you Clarkson, but there is a difference between AFROTC and AROTC. Starting with the fact that 80%+ scholarship recipients are tech (STEM) majors. Ending with 100% of cadets will go AD.

    Posters are not realizing that just like every DoDMERB DQ and waivers, the same is true for cadets that find their self in this condition.

    Army is not AF. AF is not Army.

    Additionally, an applicant is not contracted. They are an applicant. The regs posted per section d state an APPLICANT. Not a cadet, or contracted (i.e POC/MSIII+).

    To get back on track
    Yes, if you are married you can contract.

    Much respect to Clarkson
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  17. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    451
    OK...let's try DoD instructions 1304.26

    E2.2.6.2. The Military Services may not enlist married individuals with more than two dependents under the age of 18 or unmarried individuals with custody of any dependents under the age of 18. However, the Secretary concerned may grant a waiver for particularly promising entrants.

    and AFRS (Air Force Recruiting Service) Instruction 36-2001

    2.15. Disqualification Because of Family Members:
    2.15.1. An unmarried applicant who has physical or legal custody of a family member incapable of self-care is classified as a single-member sponsor by the Air Force. Because of this sponsor responsibility, the applicant does not have the flexibility required to perform worldwide duty, short-notice TDY, remote tours, and varied duty hours. Therefore, an applicant falling into this category is ineligible for enlistment unless permanent physical and legal custody has been transferred by court order. Note: When permanent physical and legal custody has been transferred by court order, a waiver may be requested. (See paragraph 3.23.)

    I'm not seeing a single parent being able to enlist (contract through ROTC) in any service. Perhaps there is an AF ROTC regulation that says different??

    Again, Army reg says once you are contracted (enlisted) future change in status will not get you disenrolled.
    Definitely agree avoiding becoming a single parent makes this whole discussion moot.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    I will bow out. All I know is there was a poster here that had many pms with me. They were able to stay.

    I would not want to go down this path, it was months of worry and concern. For them it worked out okay, but like I said before when this occurred they were finishing their 300 yr. and in their 1st tri.

    Let's all agree to one fact... DON'T RISK IT.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013

Share This Page