Core Values Ramp

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by SemperExcelsius, Nov 28, 2008.

  1. SemperExcelsius

    SemperExcelsius USAFA Cadet

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    I have a curiousity question... As I ran across the The Coming American by Sam Walter Foss, I was wondering. Has there been any attempt to return the Core Values ramp to its former pre-2003 state of Bring me men...?

    Could we please try and stay on the question also? I do not want this thread to wander to places that I'm sure some would take it...

    Thank you!
     
  2. ds52262

    ds52262 Member

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    This will never happen.:eek:
     
  3. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Until the revolution that overthrows the Politically Correct States of Stupidity...it's gone forever... :frown:
     
  4. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I agree - will never happen, nor should it. It was probably a poor choice to begin with and certainly a poor choice to keep it after 1976 in the name of "tradition", which was only 17 years at that point. But I digress..............

    FWIW - Sam Walter Foss was a New England poet at the turn of the century. He wrote the poem in 1894 and the poem had nothing to do with the AFA or the West.
     
  5. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    It was a decent poem, but the phrase was too un-PC after 2003. I doubt it will return. The core values are good anyway, IMO.
     
  6. PDub

    PDub Prospective

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    i think in the past "men" meant both men and women, just like in old English there was no "her" or "hers", simply "his" for both genders.
     
  7. ds52262

    ds52262 Member

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    Try arguing that with the PTB and you'll be drawn, quartered, and piked on the core values ramp for unaccetable gender bias. :rolleyes: The progressives have no use for tradition unless it fits their definition of the world.

    Instead of looking at the ramp and saying "their was a day when only men could be here, look how far we have come", it is seen as something that must be purged and held in disdain.
     
  8. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    On the contrary - I don't think in 1894, when the poem was written the author meant to include women at all.
    I say that coming from a male dominated New England family - who hailed from the same hometown as SWF.
    I am sure there are other inspiring literary phrases that would work but it is better to continue to cry and moan about an out of context phrase being removed and make up arbitrary interpretations to fit one's agenda.
     
  9. ds52262

    ds52262 Member

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    Progressive tolerance is a one way street. If a progressive disagrees it must be purged and their is no other acceptable veiw. The "Core Values Ramp" will never return to the original state and all that will remain are pictures that I'm am sure the more superior left would have burned and destroyed if possible.

    I prefer to look at things like this as signs of progress. Instead of creating and advancing victimhood. There is a special justice looking at a symbol of discrimination and saying "You cannot hold me back".
     
  10. PDub

    PDub Prospective

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    I think I like the core values better than the original quote... seems much more meaningful.
     
  11. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    The poem, as published in an old Contrails (via USAFA folklore wiki)
    I don't consider it sexist, much like I don't consider the phrase "We came in peace for all mankind" to be sexist.
    Perhaps it was, as American culture and gender roles were drastically different from today. I don't know Samuel W. Foss's mind. I like the poem, personally, but then I tend to ignore gender phrases when used in literary works (which occasionally gets me in trouble while studying German!)
     
  12. JCI605

    JCI605 New Member

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    However

    I don't think the "Bring Me Men ...to match my mountains..." poem will ever again grace the ramp. To do so would be to invite hateful dialogue from those who live to take offense.

    USAFA's action was motivated by a desire to remove all vestiges of sexism considerably more than by a desire to find a more compelling phrase (e.g., How do we get out of the line of fire that came about because of other institutional failures?).

    Other institutions (admittedly not facing the intense pressure that USAFA was in the late 90's, early 2000's...) made different choices. Imagine if the USNA had acted in a similar fashion by introducing the term "The Brigade of Midship-people"...

    I do think that there was never any intent to be sexist in coining and using the phrase "Bring me Men". Given that, it is disappointing that USAFA acted as if it was guilty by caving in to those who took offense where none was offered.
     
  13. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    If you are familiar with the "Serenity Prayer"; then this is one of those situations that fit's exactly.

    "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change;
    Courage to change the things I can;
    and Wisdom always to tell the difference".

    Well, this is one of those things that we can not change. So, ask for serenity. There are plenty of things in our country and world that I wish I and others could change. I think our economics, poverty, values, morals, crime, disrespect, and so much more is a result of 2 major categories. "Family Values and Political Correctness". I'd love to change both of these areas. I think both areas are responsible for many of the problems we have today. I was fortunate. Because of the military, I was able to live a modest but successful and happy life with my wife where one of us could afford to stay at home and raise our children. Not a man vs woman thing. We are both college graduates. We looked at both our careers and determined who really wanted which one the most and which one was best for the family. We BOTH agreed that one of us needed to raise the kids. At least until they were in Junior High. So, we were fortunate enough to be able to afford it. As such; both kids grew up fantastic. We both believe that this was the way it's suppose to be. Later on, when the children were old enough, my wife went back to work. Her law firm is doing quite well and she is happy. But our early decision was the right thing to do. If we didn't want to have one of us stay home with the kids, then we shouldn't have had children. It's not a baby sitter, day care, or school's job to raise our kids.

    My daughter received an almost full ride scholarship to college. Is a Senior this year at said college. Has a great GPA and already has an impressive job offer with a major corporation starting when she graduates. My son graduated high school #1 in his class; football champion; accepted to the academy; and is currently very happy as a freshman at the academy. I "TRULY BELIEVE" that neither kid would be where they are now; with the opportunities that they have; had it not been for the family values we lived by and raising our children in a home and NOT with day care, baby sitters, and/or latch key when they went to school. Same with political correctness. It is the WORST THING that ever happened to our country. Some may point to one or two good things coming from it, but I can name 10 bad things for every 1. It is a big part of our country's problems.

    Anyway, the point is; I can not for the life of me change any of this. All I can do is hopefully affect change in attitude and direction with it in the future. The same goes with the "Core Values Ramp". I do not believe that in any way, that the re-wording of the ramp changes the actual core values that the academy or our military represents. I believe that it was changed to simply appease the politically correct and those who have been brain washed by political correctness into knowing that the academy is not sexist. Our military and culture continually evolves based on our society and their acceptance and tolerance. We don't need political correctness for men to become more tolerant or respectful of women or Whites to become more tolerant or respectful of blacks or other minorities. Our country and culture will evolve naturally. Why; because that's EXACTLY WHAT OUR COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON. Anyway, figure out what you can affect change with and become passionate about it. But for the sake of argument; the "Core Values Ramp" is not one you can affect change over. later... mike.....
     
  14. SemperExcelsius

    SemperExcelsius USAFA Cadet

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    Very well said Christcorp. I agree. Thank you!
     

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