DADT Repeal tomorrow - Academies Respond

It really is silly to bring any religion into this debate, in support or in opposition.

Those who proclaim to be followers of one particular sect would be the first to proclaim outrage if the Govt followed some other religion's justification for condoning or condemning a particular action.
 
Seriously, all the dude needs is a fabulous night of musical theatre!!!
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:wink:

Luigi said:
It really is silly to bring any religion into this debate, in support or in opposition.

Those who proclaim to be followers of one particular sect would be the first to proclaim outrage if the Govt followed some other religion's justification for condoning or condemning a particular action.
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I agree that is true for some countries, but in our country that is suppose to never happen. THEORY, I know!

I think for me personally, I feel any military member who uses religion that adheres to the 10 Commandments, as a defense for their stance in any case, automatically is a hypocrite if they serve in the military.

Thou Shall Not Kill can and will for many members be a MORTAL sin, not venial, that they will have to accept.

If you enter the military cherry picking the Bible or Quran or the Torah or whatever, you have to admit that you have accepted for yourself that you will disobey it. It is your personal choice and one you must find peace with it in yourself.

I am sorry I will never ever in my lifetime believe that people choose to be homosexual, it is what God created. However, it is your choice to join the military. It is your decision to accept that you may have to kill someone. That was your choice.

I wonder if your child came out and said I am Gay, would you disown them? Would you condemn them to Hades? Would you try to force them to change? Or would you say...Okay, I love you, and nothing has changed regarding my respect, pride, admiration and love between the time before I knew you were gay and the know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44596987/ns/us_news-life/

“Can I tell you something?” he asks.
"Yeah," the father replies.
“Will you love me, serious?”
"Yes," the father says.
“Dad, I’m gay.”
The soldier explains that "I’ve known since forever" about his sexual orientation and has been aching to tell his family for a long time.
"I don’t know when’s the next time I would be able to see you. I didn’t want to do it over the phone. I wanted to tell you in person, but uh … I didn't want you to find out in any other way.”
After a period of silence, the father says, "OK."
And then came the reassurance.
"Will you still love me?" the soldier asks.
“I still love you, son. Yes, I still love you,” the father replies.
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This airman started posting anonymously on you tube for months, but never showed his face until yesterday.

His father was interviewed this morning, and said the only thing I was upset about was HE DIDN'T TELL ME HE WAS DOING THIS LIVE ON YOU TUBE!

He went on and said, he's my son, I have loved him for 21 yrs and only care about he is happy and healthy, his sexuality means nothing.

Our DD's friend is gay. His father is an O6 in the AF. He just came out this summer to his folks although he has known for yrs he was gay. My DD was his beard throughout HS. His parents basically said "it took you long enough!" We have suspected it for yrs, but wanted to wait for you to acknowledge it.

***funny thing was he had told us right off the bat, but when DD would visit him at his house his parents would remind them to keep the bedroom door open so no funny business would happen. I still chuckle at that!
He created unwarranted fear that his folks would be upset because Dad was in the military. His Dad who never talks politics told him, that for the past 5 yrs he has supported the repeal because he knew he was gay, and now it was personal; he now saw that the military was losing great candidates/offices/enlisted because of DADT.
 
Sprog,

Off topic, BUT

I have to say I love the movie Birdcage with Robin Williams! That movie is such a classic!

Hank Azaria is also hysterical in the movie!

Seriously though, he should watch Glee. I mean that honestly, because it truly touches upon how the fears of a homosexual being cast out, and how people when learning a loved one is gay re-evaluates their own opinion.
 
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So, if it's not a choice, it's genetic?

If it's genetic, one would expect that genetic trait to eventually be wiped out. It's extremely hard for a female and female or a male and male to reproduce. If it's a genetic trait, then over the years it should be breed out (or at least not breed in).

It's an interesting conversation, is it a choice or are they born with it.

I'm not gay, nor do I "agree" with it, but I have gay friends, knew a lesbian cadet who was separated who did a great job and cared about her shipmates.
 
So, if it's not a choice, it's genetic?

If it's genetic, one would expect that genetic trait to eventually be wiped out. It's extremely hard for a female and female or a male and male to reproduce. If it's a genetic trait, then over the years it should be breed out (or at least not breed in).
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My ex-SIL has 3 siblings, she is the youngest of the 4, 8 yrs between oldest and youngest. 3 girls, 1 boy.

She and the eldest are heterosexual, the middle 2 are homosexual (1 DS, 1 DD). These kids were raised in the same family. I can't see how 2 of them are gay and 2 are not, 1 of each sex if it was choice.

I am sorry I don't get breeding out.

1. My brother is an albino, (48 yo), and guess what albinism has not been bred out although they now know the gene.

2. Many homosexuals have biological children.
~~~ Can't/won't acknowledge they are homosexual
~~~ Openly homosexual in a committed relationship, and use in-vitro/surrogates to have birth children.

Sara Gilbert, Neil Patrick Harris, Elton John, Rosie O'Donnell and Melissa Etheridge. If you have the fiscal means you don't need a partner of the opposite sex to bring your biological child in the world. Sara Gilbert and her partner have 2 kids...she had her partner's fertilized egg implanted in her using in-vitro, so she was the surrogate for her partner. Her partner had Sara's fertilized egg implanted so she was her surrogate.

Would you want society to get to a point where we can genetically test in utero sexuality? I sure as heck wouldn't want that!

Have to ask what do you mean when you say "agree with it"? Are you saying it is wrong, or are you saying you can't see yourself being gay? Two different things.
 
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See: "Bellum Iustum". The Just War Theory and killing. The philosophy preceded the reformation and is a basic tenant of the Christian Faith. LITS: I think Darwin explained that.
 
Pima: ” Would you want society to get to a point where we can genetically test in utero sexuality? I sure as heck wouldn't want that!”
Our society already has in utero genetic testing for abortion decisions; for example, Down’s Syndrome.

The commandments are not numbered and various religions disagree on the “correct” numbering. A better translation of “Thou shall not kill” would be “Thou shall not murder”.
 
LineInTheSand said:
So, if it's not a choice, it's genetic?

If it's genetic, one would expect that genetic trait to eventually be wiped out. It's extremely hard for a female and female or a male and male to reproduce. If it's a genetic trait, then over the years it should be breed out (or at least not breed in).

It's an interesting conversation, is it a choice or are they born with it.

I'm not gay, nor do I "agree" with it, but I have gay friends, knew a lesbian cadet who was separated who did a great job and cared about her shipmates.
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In theory, homosexualty could be inactive gene sequences that gets activiated when father and mother have certain genetic codes. I don't think our science could prove this anytime soon. How about male nipples? We have no purpose for them, as far as I know, but we still have them.
 
I find it ironic I put on The Birdcage on netflix last night before the rest of this conversation! Unfortunately my home internet died halfway through and have to finish it tonight. Should be a good night though, finish Birdcage and see the season premiere of Modern Family! :D
 
Idzak, we are really going off topic now, but honestly the last time I checked homosexuality had no medical issues connected with them. Down syndrome does.

Sorry, but the idea of aborting because of a test result is disgusting to me.

When I was 16 weeks pregnant with DD we were told that there was an 84% chance she had spina bifida. We had an 18 month old and living overseas in the military. We thought long and hard about it. Happy to say DD arrived in this world as a healthy baby and now flourishing as a soph. at VT. The test was a false positive.

I am not opposed to abortion, I am opposed to it if you use it as a way of selection...i.e China and 1 child rule, or in this case because they may be a homosexual.

The commandments are not numbered and various religions disagree on the “correct” numbering. A better translation of “Thou shall not kill” would be “Thou shall not murder”.
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Please define murder to me. Are you implying that murder is pre-meditated? If so most military members enter a mission knowing they may have to kill someone. Are you saying it isn't murder to take a life if it is pre-emptive?

OBTW what does numbering of commandments have to with the price of shoes in Sydney, Australia? It's a commandment and a MORTAL sin, be it number 1 or number 10 on the list it is still a mortal sin and carries the same levity in the eyes of GOD.

Who walks around and says Thou shalt not commit adultery is number 7 on the list so they should get an edge since it was not number 1? Nobody!

Hornet don't want to spoil it, but Gene Hackman is hysterical!
 
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^^^^^^

Yeah, saw that Marine Times cover and it really got my blood boiling! :mad:

HOW could the Marines allow it!!!???? :unhappy:








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Getting defective holsters like that. How many Marines have to shoot themselves in the foot before they FIX this issue!!!!

:thumb::thumb:
 
Pima said:
My ex-SIL has 3 siblings, she is the youngest of the 4, 8 yrs between oldest and youngest. 3 girls, 1 boy.

She and the eldest are heterosexual, the middle 2 are homosexual (1 DS, 1 DD). These kids were raised in the same family. I can't see how 2 of them are gay and 2 are not, 1 of each sex if it was choice.

I am sorry I don't get breeding out.

1. My brother is an albino, (48 yo), and guess what albinism has not been bred out although they now know the gene.

2. Many homosexuals have biological children.
~~~ Can't/won't acknowledge they are homosexual
~~~ Openly homosexual in a committed relationship, and use in-vitro/surrogates to have birth children.

Sara Gilbert, Neil Patrick Harris, Elton John, Rosie O'Donnell and Melissa Etheridge. If you have the fiscal means you don't need a partner of the opposite sex to bring your biological child in the world. Sara Gilbert and her partner have 2 kids...she had her partner's fertilized egg implanted in her using in-vitro, so she was the surrogate for her partner. Her partner had Sara's fertilized egg implanted so she was her surrogate.

Would you want society to get to a point where we can genetically test in utero sexuality? I sure as heck wouldn't want that!

Have to ask what do you mean when you say "agree with it"? Are you saying it is wrong, or are you saying you can't see yourself being gay? Two different things.
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By "don't agree" I mean I think it's wrong. That said, there are a number of things, including life styles I think are wrong. Doesn't mean I'm going to attack someone or judge them as less human or below me. I'm fairly conservative. I don't agree with my liberal friends, but hey, I think one way and they thing another. No big deal. I also "can't see myself being gay", but that was not what I meant by "don't agree with".


As for the albino v. gay. The point I was trying to make is....if being gay is genetic, we might assume it's a recessive trait (or there would be many more homosexuals in the world).... if homosexuals are incapable of reproducing with partners (as we know they are), at some point you would thing the trait would just....die out in a blood line somewhere where people are not reproducing. Albinos carry a recessive trait, but theirs would not affect their ability to reproduce (they're still attracted to a gender that enables them to reproduce and pass on the trait).

Or maybe it's a choice. I just can't imagine people wanting to endure the judgement.


Truth is, I don't really know. Doesn't affect what I think of my gay friends.
 
Bullet said:
^^^^^^

Yeah, saw that Marine Times cover and it really got my blood boiling! :mad:

HOW could the Marines allow it!!!???? :unhappy:








-------

Getting defective holsters like that. How many Marines have to shoot themselves in the foot before they FIX this issue!!!!

:thumb::thumb:
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Marine Times, like Navy Times, Army Times, and Air Force Times are not service publications. They are independent like New York Times or the Wall Street Journal.

I'm sure the Marine Corps would not approve their press office to produce a publication with a front page like this.
 
LITS -
I know how you feel. I am right handed and against left handed ness. I can't figure out if it's a choice or genetic. I have two left handed children and their father and I are both right handed. It puzzles me so. If its a choice why would they choose to live in a world that obviously discriminates against left handed people?
When they were small they had difficulty using scissors and opening doors. I worried they might not be able to escape in case of a fire. A few advantages have surfaced, however. For instance, she can shoot a gun with either hand; so I am careful to stay on her good side ;).
One declared her left handed *situation* to me at a very early age - 18 months. I was shocked as so was her pediatrician who told me it was far too early for her to *know*. The other came apparent a little later and I already had time for her older sister's *condition* to sink in so it was easier to accept.
BTW - even though I don't agree with their left handed disposition; I still love them.
 
You know I love threads like this, nowhere in my farthest dreams would I think a thread titled DADT Repeal tomorrow - Academies Respond to warp into discussions about left handed/right handed and genetics.

It is too flipping funny!

Taking odds that by page 10 we should be back on topic!

LITS, I think you missed Bullet's point...."Getting defective holsters like that. How many Marines have to shoot themselves in the foot before they FIX this issue!!!!"

It wasn't about being Gay. Or maybe I missed your point and you were responding to the holster article.

OBTW did anyone see the show on the History (?) channel regarding DADT and the history of it? It was truly great. Must say although I voted for McCain, he was a complete arse during the hearings. Waving the 1000 flag officer signatures was comical, because let's be honest how old were some of them that signed it? How long ago did they retire? Were they all even in when DADT was implemented?
 
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Oh hahaha..... I get it now.

@JAM When did you know she was left handed and how did she tell you.

You do have to qualify on a pistol left and right handed.... although pistols are generally designed for righties.... magazine release, safety generally favor the right side.
 
LITS, you know Bullet is my DH, and I have to say when I saw that post I did the :eek: that's not you! I then looked down at the bottom and saw the holster comment and said... okay, that's you!
 
No DADT hits the SAs

So I thought that there may be some interest on how the repeal of DADT was affecting the SAs. Here is something from an email that DS sent:

So now that DADT is gone there are different rules for when we can close the door here at the coast guard academy.

DADT: Whenever there were people of different genders or different classes in the same rooms the door had to be open and the lights had to be on. It seemed normal

here is where it gets crazy,

Post-DADT: Whenever two people are in a room and are not roommates the door has to be open and the lights have to be on, It could just be a buddy. but if you have more than two people in a room, regardless of gender you can close the door as long as they are in the same class.
 
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