DADT Repeal tomorrow - Academies Respond

^^^^^^

Yeah, saw that Marine Times cover and it really got my blood boiling! :mad:

HOW could the Marines allow it!!!???? :unhappy:

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Getting defective holsters like that. How many Marines have to shoot themselves in the foot before they FIX this issue!!!!

:thumb::thumb:
Serpa holsters are more prone to negligent discharges than the Safariland SLS holster, but I wouldn't call them unsafe. You need to keep your finger straight when you unlock the holster. People who try to press the lever with their fingertip may have their finger slip toward the trigger on the draw. IMO, the headline is sensationalism (I guess that goes for the main headline too!).

@ CBM, that stinks! During any major change, you can bet there will be a few haywire rules that get published. That one is just obnoxious.
 
It's fairly typical. In the past, no doors closed until 2000 anyway. Guess it makes sense... if you can't have mixed sexes in a room together with the door closed, then guess you can't have same sex too. How would you solve that?
 
It's fairly typical. In the past, no doors closed until 2000 anyway. Guess it makes sense... if you can't have mixed sexes in a room together with the door closed, then guess you can't have same sex too.

Just get rid of doors! Cadets don't need privacy! If you're nice, just allow the airline-style see-through curtains. :D
 
It's fairly typical. In the past, no doors closed until 2000 anyway. Guess it makes sense... if you can't have mixed sexes in a room together with the door closed, then guess you can't have same sex too. How would you solve that?

Policies like this are rules to try to prevent other rules from being broken. My opinion, set clear baseline rules (i.e. no sex in the dorms, etc), then bring the hammer down on people who violate those, but leave "rules for other rules" out of it.
 
The hammer already comes down. Love in the barracks general gets you the door, and in a hurry. That said, mixed sexes in a room, with the door closed, certainly helps that long.

My 3/c (when I was a 4/c) was almost kicked out for being in a room with the door closed. They don't play around with it. It's not hard to leave the door open. It's one big building. This isn't difficult for anyone to follow.
 
@JAM When did you know she was left handed and how did she tell you.
LITS - like I said, I realized it when she was about 18 months old. There were certain tell tale signs and I had a strong hunch. She refused to hold a spoon in her right hand, then she started picking up her big sister's crayons and eating them with her left hand. Little things like that.
When she was older, about 3ish - she told me. She said as much as she tried she just could not do certain things with her right hand. She wanted to be like me but she just couldn't. She then asked me to please accept her the way she is - left handed. She was nervous I would love her less and tried to conform to please me but eventually - I accepted her. We had some frustrating times for sure - have you ever tried to teach a left handed kid to hold a knife or iron? However, she has grown into a smart, beautiful young woman and has not allowed her left-handedness limit her.

Of course this is just analogy to the burning - genetic or choice question. I found it interesting that no one considers if being gay has an environmental cause.
Genetics is not a simple science - it is far more complicated than Mendelian genetics and his sweet pea experiments which demonstrate dominate and recessive traits. Some genes are affected by environment, some traits come from a complicated sequence of genes.
 
Very true. The point...those genes cannot be passed on without.... sexual reproduction, and the exchange of genetic material...
 
Very true. The point...those genes cannot be passed on without.... sexual reproduction, and the exchange of genetic material...

LITS, at the risk of insulting you, I have to say your analysis of genetics in this thread is very, very elementary and your perception about them is incorrect.
 
Hornet, at the risk of asking you to go too "in depth"....

Barring mutation, exactly how is genetic material passed on sexual without sexual reproduction. If there is NO reproduction, the genetic information in an individual stops with that individual.

Please explain how that genetic material is being passed on naturally without an exchange of genetic material.
 
Hornet, at the risk of asking you to go too "in depth"....

Barring mutation, exactly how is genetic material passed on sexual without sexual reproduction. If there is NO reproduction, the genetic information in an individual stops with that individual.

Please explain how that genetic material is being passed on naturally without an exchange of genetic material.

The idea that genetics are a hard-wired feature is not correct. Yes, your DNA is passed down through reproduction. But if identical twins share the same DNA, why is it that many display different features be it facial structure, greater stature, etc.? There are environmental factors in utero and after which cause additional expression of genes or suppression of others. Also, the notion that something like homosexuality is controlled by a single gene is naive (in the academic sense). It, like many other genetic characteristics, are determined by the interaction of multiple genetic splices. As male and female gametes (sperm and egg) cross-over during fertilization, genes are combined in unique sequences that are random. Studies have shown that the mother's body, in an immune reaction, will "feminize" the fetus in some cases after having boys (video on this). We are learning that factors not just in utero (nutrients and exposure to the mother impacting the fetus) but that even factors when your MOTHER was in utero (as her sex organs developed in her mother) can impact your own genetics. Many environmental factors, hormones, the expression of intron and extron fragments, etc. all have a great effect which can alter human features such that sexual reproduction has less to do with passing something on.

That's a super abbreviated splurge! lol
 
I feel like I may have beat me head into the wall...


"There are environmental factors in utero and after which cause additional expression of genes or suppression of others."

The very point, NO genes are being passed at ALL. I'm not suggesting a single "gay gene", but NO genetic material is being passed in any way. Identical twins are not exactly the same, correct, there are a number of mutations even after cross-over, however, the very fact you even have twins is a result of sexual reproduction. While not exactly the same, they are similar, because some genes are expressed and some are suppressed.....

You're arguing the fact that meiosis is not perfect? I'm arguing there is not meiosis after a sperm fertilizes an egg because there is not sexual reproduction. The equation stops before we can even get into 99% of what you talked about.
 
LITS,

Let me get you correctly, you are saying that if was genetics and because for eons we did not have the medical advancements as we do now it would have been eradicated long time ago since homosexuals cannot reproduce in the biblical sense.

However, as I said my brother is an albino, my mother and father carried the gene. Had they married someone else, he would not have been an albino. If you can agree upon that you should be able to accept 2 heterosexual people can have a child that is homosexual.

Additionally, my aunt who is a lesbian, and her partner were both married because back then that was what was expected. Her partner had 3 children. My friend's mother left her father after 30 yrs of marriage and 3 kids. Homosexuals do get married and reproduce. They didn't need technological advances to keep that gene alive.

To state that every homosexual tries to live an open lifestyle is a lie and naive at best because of the stigma that has long been attached to it makes it hard for them. It is not something that many embrace the minute they realize their sexuality and it is something many try to ignore for as long as they possibly can if they do not have loving and supportive people.
 
LITS, you nitpicked my post to support yourself. Sexual reproduction is not an absolute requirement for many things to be expressed. Eye color is a simpler gene that Mendelian genetics (which you seem to be using) explains, homosexuality along with thousands of other traits are not explained by Mendelian genetics. The key medical point is that it is not a choice and many environmental effects combined with some genetic result in gay people. Direct sexual reproduction of gays is not a prerequisite.
 
Sorry, but to me it comes to this:

NATURE VS NURTURE

No offense to LITS or Hornet, but you have yet to have children.

What does it matter?

Homosexuality exists, and IMPO instead of arguing about them, look inside yourself regarding how you want society to treat you.

I said this yesterday privately, will say it publicly now. God has a wicked sense of humor. If you believe it is nurture and not nature...be prepared to hear one day...Mom/Dad, I am gay. Will you see yourself as a failure?
 
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I've stayed out of this, but I will say one thing. I definitely don't believe that it's a "Nurture" thing. I don't believe it's how your parents raised you. I do believe however that the "Sexual Preference" part of humans is a socially learned/adapted quality. Just like some people are attracted to blonds vs brunettes; Caucasians vs African; large women/men vs petite; tall vs short; etc... Now obviously, there are internal triggers that are in concert with this social exposure that presents a preference on way or another. This is a part of physiology and biology/chemistry that no one knows the answer to. But the desire to have "Sex" in biological, while the "Preference of WHO to have sex with" is more socialized and simply a preference. A person's DNA doesn't decide that they prefer Heavy women compared to tiny women.

Now; that is purely the "Sexual" position. Homosexual/Heterosexual is a lot deeper than Sex. It's also about relationships, love, trust, companionship, etc... Some men's BEST FRIENDS are other men. Some are WOMEN. Some women's best friends are other women; some are MEN. Some prefer to be around the same sex all the time; some prefer to be around the opposite sex all the time. A lot of this is socialized. The relationships you had when you were young. Who could you trust? Who didn't you trust? Who comforted you and who caused you stress? You can see this with children. "Momma's Boy", "Daddy's little girl". Sometimes the boy is closer to his father and men in the family. Same with girls and the women in her family. This is a combination of socialization and the internal triggers that provide pleasure and preference vs dislike and/or stress. Again; a part of the physiology, biology/chemistry of the human being that can only be theorized and isn't known for sure.

While it's true that other animals/mammals have exhibited homosexual tendencies, with the exception of a very small number test subjects like a couple of sheep I believe, most all other homosexual actions by non-human animals were short term. Either as a form of power and dominance, or simple physiological need. Almost all occurrences eventually went back a permanently mated long term with the opposite sex. Now this doesn't prove conclusively that sexual preference is totally a socially learned trait. But it does prove that the social environment does in fact play a part in it. Physiologically/biologically; humans are more complex than lower level animals. Our ability to "PREFER" certain attributes is more complex. So while I believe that there are physio/bio/chem factors that factor into a person's "Preferences", I believe that these must be accompanied by social experiences and exposure to determine the final product.

"Disclaimer": This position/opinion was based on clinical and abnormal psychology and sociology as a behavioral science major in college. (30 years ago). And NO, the "Abnormal Psychology" portion didn't presume that homosexuality in itself was "Abnormal". It treated "Abnormal" as any 2 opposing positions. Fat vs thin, gay vs straight, black vs white, country boy vs city boy, etc... Basically, anything different than what the individual considered NORMAL to THEM. The sociology side of this emphasized behavioral changes based on society and the influence of others on the individual's decisions and preferences.
 
The key medical point is that it is not a choice and many environmental effects combined with some genetic result in gay people..

Like playing Liza Minnelli to a pregant woman?:shake:

That's Liza with a "Z".....
 
I have to admit sprog that went up and over my cranium too. I just thought it was because I was old that I didn't get it.

OH now I get it you are inferring she is not a male or a female and that's why it is a Z. right?
 
I have to admit sprog that went up and over my cranium too. I just thought it was because I was old that I didn't get it.

OH now I get it you are inferring she is not a male or a female and that's why it is a Z. right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liza_with_a_Z

The idea that an environmental factor can make someone gay. If you were to play this video near a pregnant woman, the kid would come out in sequins.

It is a joke....

Pima-most likely you are too young to get it. It came out in the early 1970s. Only through my geeky love of all things musical theatreish, do I know about such a performance (I am one of seven heterosexual men who know about this stuff).
 
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