Defense budget cuts for ROTC??

bruno, ROTC scholarships have taken a hit. They took a hit before the super committee failure. It's not a huge leap to assume more hits are coming. We can stick our heads in the sand or we can talk about it. Either way, it won't change what's going to happen. :rolleyes:
 
While we're making wild predictions, I'd like to propose that we buy new helicopters the Army needs instead of new jets the Air Force doesn't need.
 
But before we do that, I'd like to buy new ships for the Coast Guard before we buy helicopters for the Army which will replace helicopters that are newer than the current USCG helo fleet. I also propose we cut 1% of all DOD branches, to double the Coast Guard's tiny budget. (I just made those numbers up).

And I propose the federal govt. give me an SES position with little to do.
 
Did you notice the title of this thread?

"Defense budget cuts for ROTC"

scoutpilot said:
While we're making wild predictions, I'd like to propose that we buy new helicopters the Army needs instead of new jets the Air Force doesn't need.
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You have an issue with the AF and the 35 or is it the 22?
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=22905

That has no issue or impact regarding ROTC and the cuts that may or may not occur. Maybe you should address this issue with Panetta. Ticked about the AF getting jets they don't need is more about how the Army lost their fight when it came to requirements. Be mad at your own branch for losing in the big bucks battle. AF got that money because the DOD gave it! They simply proved to the DOD it was their best bang for the buck. I am not nor I will not infer the Army doesn't deserve a new Helo. I am inferring that the AF, Navy, Marines and 8+ countries want the 35.

When the Army comes up with Helo that the Navy, Marines and other countries are willing to purchase than you can state...the AF should not get new jets they don't need. Until that time, understand the 35 gives this country air superiority. Look at Iran and Pakistan, they have F-16s rusting out on their flight lines. They can't get parts for their airframes because they didn't play nice with us. That is true for the 35. Don't play nice and we won't sell you parts, eventually you will not have parts to fly the jets. Hence we have air superiority.

Topic is budget cuts for ROTC.

LITS, I agree ROTC programs have taken the hit for a few yrs before the super committee failure.

To not discuss the impact that may occur for ROTC is playing the ostrich in the sand.

It is every posters right to interpret what they want regarding their path. It is also every posters right to be Devil's advocate and acknowledge the worst case scenario.
 
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I would guess all of the information we know on this subject would fit into a single paragraph. That little bit of information has generated 9 pages of discussion.:rolleyes:

I don't know if entertainment is the purpose but it has been entertaining.
 
Packer said:
I would guess all of the information we know on this subject would fit into a single paragraph. That little bit of information has generated 9 pages of discussion.:rolleyes:
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Ah yes, but would a single paragraph be as "fun"?
 
Pima, I think LITS and Scout are just having a little fun. They know that Defense Money Honey's request was all about asking what the folks here at SAF think will be the result of defense budget cuts on ROTC. I am very grateful that bruno has decided to allow us to respond. It is a very legitimate inquiry and likely on the minds of many.

I do have a question for you, though. Given that the Air Force has historically trimmed the pipeline much earlier than the other branches (i.e., by tightening the standards for SFT and cutting loose those on scholarship who didn't obtain an SFT slot), and given that Army ROTC historically has NOT done that, isn't the value of a 4-year Army ROTC scholarship much greater than a 4-year Air Force ROTC scholarship (in terms of risk if things do go south)? I know there are pros and cons for both, but if a kid is embarking on a career, he or she does have to factor in the possibility that with AFROTC, the money can be turned off mid-stream which may put a severe damper on his or her desire to serve our country).

Many candidates will have to decide in the coming months between AFROTC 4-year scholarships and AROTC scholarships. And this decision will have to be made based on incomplete and "best guess" information. So my question is this: Do you see the SFT numbers continuing to decline in the next few years, such that Army may be a surer bet for those who are interested in "service indifferent" specialities (i.e., military police, military intelligence, military finance, medical corps, JAG corps, etc., as opposed to those aiming for Armor, Submarine warfare, or Stealth fighters, etc. which ARE service-specific)?

My initial response to defense money honey's request was based on my AROTC experience. But with the reduced numbers we saw last year in SFT, I'm not so sure about AFROTC.

What do you think?

(I know that no one knows how things will look in two years, but parents and candidates have to make decisions about this very soon).
 
patentesq said:
I do have a question for you, though. Given that the Air Force has historically trimmed the pipeline much earlier than the other branches (i.e., by tightening the standards for SFT and cutting loose those on scholarship who didn't obtain an SFT slot), and given that Army ROTC historically has NOT done that, isn't the value of a 4-year Army ROTC scholarship much greater than a 4-year Air Force ROTC scholarship (in terms of risk if things do go south)? I know there are pros and cons for both, but if a kid is embarking on a career, he or she does have to factor in the possibility that with AFROTC, the money can be turned off mid-stream which may put a severe damper on his or her desire to serve our country).
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I am not sure I follow you but are you thinking that Army ROTC may be less risky with respect to commissioning? With the SFT in AFROTC they can cut you off pretty easily after 2 years. In AROTC you wouldn't know till the end that you were going to get sent reserve if they raise the cut-off. You may get your education paid for by the army but you would have less notice to adjust your plans.
 
Packer said:
I am not sure I follow you but are you thinking that Army ROTC may be less risky with respect to commissioning? With the SFT in AFROTC they can cut you off pretty easily after 2 years. In AROTC you wouldn't know till the end that you were going to get sent reserve if they raise the cut-off. You may get your education paid for by the army but you would have less notice to adjust your plans.
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Exactly what I was thinking. In Arotc you have five years until the nail-biting is over (hopefully we will have fixes the budget by then).
 
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Packer has it.

AFROTC will cut you as a sophomore in college if you do not go SFT

No SFT = no commissioning for AF.
 
(I know that no one knows how things will look in two years said:
You know, I reluctant to jump in here, as you all seem to be having such a good time. From this parent's perspective, I would like more (rather than less) information concerning the impact of budget cuts (most surely going to happen) on not only rotc scholarships, but also commissions. My kid is at VMI (as is Bruno's). He is aiming for a side load and wants a Marine commission. I need to budget (my Rat is out of state and that's 40k a year) and think ahead to his graduation. But then, like patentesq, I'm a lawyer and lawyers have been trained to think 10 moves ahead on the sometimes questionable premise (?) that by doing so you can influence the outcome. Of course, the standard saying about lawyers is that law school sharpens your mind --- by narrowing it. :rolleyes:
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I believe the standard saying about lawyers cannot be repeated on a forum like this!! :eek: :shake:
 
patentesq said:
LITS and Scout: Have you hugged your lawyer today?
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Nope. I haven't had all my shots!

Pima said:
When the Army comes up with Helo that the Navy, Marines and other countries are willing to purchase than you can state...the AF should not get new jets they don't need. Until that time, understand the 35 gives this country air superiority. Look at Iran and Pakistan, they have F-16s rusting out on their flight lines. They can't get parts for their airframes because they didn't play nice with us. That is true for the 35. Don't play nice and we won't sell you parts, eventually you will not have parts to fly the jets. Hence we have air superiority.
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Ah, yet another lecture from the cheap seats. First of all, for the love of Moses, take a freakin' joke! I realize you're a 110% loud jets homer, but lighten up. Secondly, when my firsthand knowledge of the needs of aviation in the close fight fails me, I will PM you and ask you to read a JSF pamphlet to me. :thumb:
 
Pennak; I understand your desire to be ahead of the power curve; hence the analogy of being 10 moves ahead. But that is not going to be possible in this scenario. The best advice anyone can take, is to have alternate plans. The same advice we give our applicants when they are initially applying for the academies or ROTC. Have backup schools. Assume that you WON'T get an appointment or an ROTC scholarship. Plan everything around that assumption. Plan for the worst and pray for the best.

Scholarships are no different than any other contract. Granted, they are year to year, but I doubt that any budget cuts are going to affect current scholarships. Personally, I believe that the education being obtained is the most important thing. These young people were going to go to college anyway. Chances are, it's not like "If you don't get an ROTC scholarship or an appointment, then you have to work in the coal mines". Matter of fact, the majority of ROTC students at our state university, are in ROTC WITHOUT a scholarship. They have other scholarships, loans, grants, etc... but not ROTC scholarships.

That's the only plan you can make. Plan that there are no scholarships. That's what we did. We assumed that my son wouldn't receive an appointment or scholarships. Now that he HAS, and is getting ready to graduate in May and get commissioned, we have a lot more disposable income to do as we please. Now, if an individual's college is based entirely on an existing scholarship, I don't know what to say. Even my daughter, who isn't military at all; "Meaning she went to traditional college/university"; she had scholarships, but we assumed that they would NOT be renewed at the end of each year. We planned for that. Those were the 10 moves ahead that we made. Each year, she had some scholarships renewed and then loved the dorms and became a resident adviser; which provided her with free room and board. More gravy for us. When she graduated in 2009, we had even more disposable income. But we were prepared to pay for her entire education if necessary. That's what our plan was. This may not help you directly, but hopefully anyone else in the planning stages of their child's education, will Plan for the Worst, and Pray for the best.
 
Christcorp said:
Pennak; I understand your desire to be ahead of the power curve; hence the analogy of being 10 moves ahead. But that is not going to be possible in this scenario. The best advice anyone can take, is to have alternate plans. The same advice we give our applicants when they are initially applying for the academies or ROTC. Have backup schools. Assume that you WON'T get an appointment or an ROTC scholarship. Plan everything around that assumption. Plan for the worst and pray for the best.

Scholarships are no different than any other contract. Granted, they are year to year, but I doubt that any budget cuts are going to affect current scholarships. Personally, I believe that the education being obtained is the most important thing. These young people were going to go to college anyway. Chances are, it's not like "If you don't get an ROTC scholarship or an appointment, then you have to work in the coal mines". Matter of fact, the majority of ROTC students at our state university, are in ROTC WITHOUT a scholarship. They have other scholarships, loans, grants, etc... but not ROTC scholarships.

That's the only plan you can make. Plan that there are no scholarships. That's what we did. We assumed that my son wouldn't receive an appointment or scholarships. Now that he HAS, and is getting ready to graduate in May and get commissioned, we have a lot more disposable income to do as we please. Now, if an individual's college is based entirely on an existing scholarship, I don't know what to say. Even my daughter, who isn't military at all; "Meaning she went to traditional college/university"; she had scholarships, but we assumed that they would NOT be renewed at the end of each year. We planned for that. Those were the 10 moves ahead that we made. Each year, she had some scholarships renewed and then loved the dorms and became a resident adviser; which provided her with free room and board. More gravy for us. When she graduated in 2009, we had even more disposable income. But we were prepared to pay for her entire education if necessary. That's what our plan was. This may not help you directly, but hopefully anyone else in the planning stages of their child's education, will Plan for the Worst, and Pray for the best.
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I hear you. And that's what I have done. But sure would be nice to have a handle on all this
 
Hello Patentesq. I started this thread and have enjoyed the lively, intelligent discussions. Im new to the forum, and im wondering why this thread was moved on the front page to a lowly status?
 
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