Defense Department Budget Cuts

Well I didn't think this thread would be about food when I started it, but here is what I think....DS said the food was fine at SLS and there was plenty to go around. Hawk and Scout, I am with you on your posts....you are in the Army now, it is not the Ritz Carlton!
My wife and I are so humbled by our son's willingness to serve and the amazing package that West Point is giving him, that we will give him a separate acount to draw from for incidentals. We would like him to save what he earns to give himself a small nest egg after graduation. The money we are saving on tuition to the BEST SCHOOL IN THE COUNTRY cannot be underestimated! I am not sure of the total value but I am sure it is way more than Harvard, Stanford, Duke etc....I am proud of him and if he needs anything going forward, his parents are there for him.
 
We talked about the quality of food at SLS versus the regular school year. According to the cadre, the food served during the summer is much better than the food served during the school year, just because the kitchens have more money to spend per head when there is less than 1000 eating each meal. So, the SLS food isn't the best indicator of how good the food is for all the cadets every single day from August to May.
 
My son is an exchange cadet right now from USAFA to West Point and says the food is fine (just got off the phone with him so asked). At AF only lunch was mandatory (other than for freshmen who have to go to breakfast) and he never ate any other meals at Mitch's (dining hall), always making things like ramen in his room or going to Subway or ordering pizza. He says he's been eating all his meals in the mess hall so far (including optional dinners). So regarding the WP cadets thinking AF is better - it may just be the change of pace. My middle son is at a civilian college. When we visited him in October of his freshman year he raved about how great the food was. By Christmas it was all complaints about how it was always the same thing, food was cold, etc. The excitement wears off. :wink:
 
A few paragraphs from the article, that speaks to some impact on the DOD. VERY significant and dangerous situations. Too early to tell regarding any long term impact to the academies. By the way my son, who is a Cow, says the food is fine. My other son who is at BC on an Army ROTC scholarship says the food is awesome.

And Dempsey said overall the department would have to absorb as much as $52 billion in cuts to planned spending by the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30.

In order to protect the troops still fighting in Afghanistan, Dempsey said the effect on the rest of the force would be devastating.

"Operations, maintenance and training will be gutted. We'll ground aircraft, return ships to port, and sharply curtail training across the force," Dempsey said. "We'll be unable to reset the force following a decade of war. Our readiness will begin to erode. Within months, we'll be less prepared. Within a year, we'll be unprepared."
 
PotentialParent said:
. . .
And Dempsey said overall the department would have to absorb as much as $52 billion in cuts to planned spending by the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30.

In order to protect the troops still fighting in Afghanistan, Dempsey said the effect on the rest of the force would be devastating.

"Operations, maintenance and training will be gutted. We'll ground aircraft, return ships to port, and sharply curtail training across the force," Dempsey said. "We'll be unable to reset the force following a decade of war. Our readiness will begin to erode. Within months, we'll be less prepared. Within a year, we'll be unprepared."
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No disrespect to General Dempsey, he is being dramatic. Will readiness and training suffer, yes. Will we be less prepared, yes. Will we be unprepared in a year - NO. My question is unprepared what? Does General Dempsey know what threats we should be prepared for a year from now? Is it fighting two regional conflicts at the same time? Soldiers can't be trained enough, but we have to realistic. When I was a mechanized infantry, our goal was to be able to perform combat mission in a chemical environment at night time (something along that line, good old Table XII in MOPP IV)

I will use the National Guard as an example. It was a shock for the National Guard when we start mobilizing soldiers for OIF/OEF. Were we less trained and prepared than what we wanted to be - YES. Simply, the National Guard was under resourced and under equipped. The solution was staying at the mobilization station several months to until we were ready. With more resources and equipment, now National Guard units spend less time at mobilization stations before deployment.

This might be a blasphemy to the 82nd Division, what if the 82nd Division reduces its training parachute jumps. It won't get them ready to conduct a massive airborne operation, but minimum impact on performing its Infantry mission. Of course, we won't save a lot of money, but whatever we save can be used for more important things.
 
Congress has authorized West Point for 4400 cadets. For several years, now, the number of enrolled cadets has exceeded that number. My Class of 2014 cadet was one of 1387 that showed up for R-day. That was the year that a significant number of cadets had accepted their appointments; many more than Admissions expected.

As recently as last Spring, the Sup publicly stated that one of the challenges was getting the number of cadets back down to the authorized 4400. There has been attrition since 2010, but not as much as necessary to get down to the authorized 4400.

This has resulted in less tolerance for infractions or poor academic standing.

The above is exclusive of any further squeezing that may or may not come with the belt-tightening budget rhetoric coming out of Washington.

One very visible change for the incoming Class of 2017 is a very different admissions cycle. Most likely to make sure the number of accepted appointments and upper-class cadets does not exceed what is authorized. Of course, this is a challenge as there normally will be attrition every year for a variety of reasons.

Compare to the situation at the Air Force and Navy Academies where there are more officers graduating than are needed, with immediate offers of no active duty required after graduation.
 
M2inOR said:
Congress has authorized West Point for 4400 cadets. For several years, now, the number of enrolled cadets has exceeded that number. My Class of 2014 cadet was one of 1387 that showed up for R-day. That was the year that a significant number of cadets had accepted their appointments; many more than Admissions expected.

As recently as last Spring, the Sup publicly stated that one of the challenges was getting the number of cadets back down to the authorized 4400. There has been attrition since 2010, but not as much as necessary to get down to the authorized 4400.

This has resulted in less tolerance for infractions or poor academic standing.

The above is exclusive of any further squeezing that may or may not come with the belt-tightening budget rhetoric coming out of Washington.

One very visible change for the incoming Class of 2017 is a very different admissions cycle. Most likely to make sure the number of accepted appointments and upper-class cadets does not exceed what is authorized. Of course, this is a challenge as there normally will be attrition every year for a variety of reasons.

Compare to the situation at the Air Force and Navy Academies where there are more officers graduating than are needed, with immediate offers of no active duty required after graduation.
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As far as I have heard, there has not been many (if any) Air Force Academy cadets being offered no AD upon graduation. I have heard of some NROTC cadets who have faced this problem. The Air Force Academy is near or below the statutory limit right now (4000), but it was not easy to get there. About 325 less cadets this year than the year before. I hope the process at the other academies are orderly, especially if there is a return to the pre-2008 authorization increase of 4400 cadets at USMA and USNA. It is very tough on the cadets and the families. But clearly there is going to be tight budgets for the foreseeable future.
 
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Food at USAFA

Hi
That is one of the main reasons my DS went air force....the second was the girls:yllol:
Regards
John
 
From a current cadet, the food really isn't that bad.

There is enough at every table (and usually a lot is thrown out because there is too much), though the big athletes usually hit up the salad bar for more food because they are hungry and carb loading. I have never heard a cadet complain that they starved after a meal. The fallback of PB and J still applies in the academic year. Every meal there is fruit, yogurt, gatorade, and some kind of protein/grain under the poop deck.

During the summer--I ate everything PLUS 2 or 3 PB and J sandwiches, and still dropped below the weight limit. every meal, a server would come and ask "do you have enough food?" during the academic year...I would be on the weight program if I ate that much. the most activity you'll get in a day is from your sports, but sitting in class doesn't do much for you.

It does get a little boring because the meals rotate every four weeks so you will see the same thing again someday..it's inevitable.

What is a little "unfair" to some cadets is called floating, where the mess hall, to cut down on costs, closes down an entire company's tables (so about 190 cadets) and has them "float" among the corps, filling in open slots at tables that others have left. Sometimes these cuts are over estimated and leave cadets without a place to eat, or less time.

In all honesty,I eat breakfast and lunch in the mess hall because I have to, but I don't usually go for dinner. I have granola, frozen milk on my windowsill, and canned food that I will make..I find that working out during dinnertime is much less crowded,but that's my reasoning.

Cadets really do find creative ways to complain. Don't get me wrong, the bread at the bottom of the bacon is pretty disgusting, and there are some things I look at on the table and say to myself "what is that?" (which i should know because I memorize three meals in advance). But there are options, and it's not nearly as bad as you would think.

Grant hall is expensive, think $20 for one meal, if you try and match what was in the mess hall.

As a side note, some cadets are worried...a lot of cuts have just been dropped...class of 2016 is getting smaller, and they are not afraid to dis enroll Cows that have already committed.. Most of them are from academics, and discipline. It is a little scary to see your friends turning in all of their gear. Keeps you on your toes.
 
Floating has been happening in the mess hall for 20+ years. It is what it is.
 
This is what is happening. As mentioned we have more than the Congressionally authorized 4400 Cadets. While we were fighting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Congress and DOD allowed WP to exceed that number. Now that Iraq is over and Afganistan is winding down - plus budget cuts - WP is working themselves back to 4400 Cadets.
This is being done in 2 ways:
1. Reduce the size of the entering classes. If we take about 1,200 per year that is 4,800 before attrition. With drop-outs and failures that gets us to 4,400.
2. Enforce the existing standards - academically and conduct. Give fewer 2nd and 3th chances to Cadets not meeting the standards
 
robinhood17 said:
What is a little "unfair" to some cadets is called floating, where the mess hall, to cut down on costs, closes down an entire company's tables (so about 190 cadets) and has them "float" among the corps, filling in open slots at tables that others have left. Sometimes these cuts are over estimated and leave cadets without a place to eat, or less time.
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I wouldn't call it "unfair." It's a faulty planning.

If you end up taking any systems engineering courses, you will agree "floating" is a good way to reduce waste/cost.

If we underestimate, end up throwing away cook food.
 
BigNick,

Have you seen the recent letter which outlines operating budget cuts? These cuts appear to be above and beyond those associated with reducing class sizes. If interested, PM me.
 
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Whats the projected class size? and how many offers do you think will go out?
 
The mentioned cuts are not final -only being considered. Clearly there have already been some cuts and more are to come. However, I do not think they will greatly impact the most important aspects of Cadet training. However, some of the "nice to have" things will go away.

One major impact of these cuts is to conform to the Congressionally mandated maximum size of the Corps to 4,400 Cadets. In the past many Cadets who did not meet the academic and military standards were given 2nd and 3rd chances. Now, many of these are being released. My son (Class of 2015) told me that he has seen many Cadets being released in his company and other companies in the past 3 weeks.

The future of class sizes is unclear, but I think the number will be 1200 per year at most
 
BigNick said:
The mentioned cuts are not final -only being considered. Clearly there have already been some cuts and more are to come. However, I do not think they will greatly impact the most important aspects of Cadet training. However, some of the "nice to have" things will go away.

One major impact of these cuts is to conform to the Congressionally mandated maximum size of the Corps to 4,400 Cadets. In the past many Cadets who did not meet the academic and military standards were given 2nd and 3rd chances. Now, many of these are being released. My son (Class of 2015) told me that he has seen many Cadets being released in his company and other companies in the past 3 weeks.

The future of class sizes is unclear, but I think the number will be 1200 per year at most
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I had heard that 100 to 150+ Firsties were recently separated. Thats a pretty serious number ...10%+ of the class. Is that what others are hearing?
 
PBA said:
I had heard that 100 to 150+ Firsties were recently separated. Thats a pretty serious number ...10%+ of the class. Is that what others are hearing?
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That is much higher than what I have heard (50-75 max)
*In a lot of cases, people are getting seperated now for events that occurred last year when they were cows, it just takes awhile to go through the process
 
PBA said:
I had heard that 100 to 150+ Firsties were recently separated. Thats a pretty serious number ...10%+ of the class. Is that what others are hearing?
Click to expand...

my firstie year we lost 40 in the second semester. reality of graduating strikes hard for some.
 
Do you know what exactly is going on? I have been mad about the cuts in defense spending since I was eight or nine, and then my parents didn't even know what was going on. It wouldn't have affected me, or so I thought then, but this is just something that I have been worried about, especially now that I am working on getting into West Point. I am just trying to figure all of this out.

Ashleigh
 
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