Dis-enrolled...Chances of getting back in?

That's a little bit of a stretch. I did NROTC for a year before I enlisted. I left on my own to enlist in the Army. It shows on my transcripts and REDD report that I was associated with NROTC, and the ROO never said anything about it other than asking what the Naval Science classes were. It's expected that applicants will be honest about their history.

I'm not an expert, but when a PMS or whatever the Air Force calls them kicks a cadet to the curb I can't think of any other word to describe it other than disenrollment. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see a difference between "Sorry Johnny, we were all out of contracts by the time we got to your position in the OML" and "You are being removed from our program because of a DUI/cheating/whatever."
 
I'm not sure it's a stretch. I am just looking for clarification of the term "disenrolled" as it relates to ROTC. Nowhere did I imply the OP shouldnt be completely honest about his past - quite the opposite actually. But many posters up the thread said in no uncertain terms that this kid is ineligible for any commissioning source because he was "disenrolled" from AFROTC. I question that simply because my understanding is you can't be disenrolled unless you are contracted. Again, he needs to seek clarification from the source itself, not rely on the best guesses of an Internet forum.
 
My question is still this, though - how can you "disenroll" a non-contracted cadet?

I just "disenrolled" a non-contracted Army ROTC Cadet this afternoon. I entered the SSN into CCIMs, selected Code T for Non-Contracted Drop, and hit submit. It only takes about 5 minutes.

I would have had to use code D if the Cadet had been Contracted. There are other tasks then that have to be completed and it is a much longer process.
 
Jcc123 said:
Was he actually kicked out of the AFROTC class prior to the semester end, or just advised that he wouldn't be going before the selection board?

Basically for AFROTC it is the same thing. If you are not ever going to be put up for SFT he could never commission. Even non-contracted cadets must attend SFT, and if they don't get SFT, they have to ask for a waiver to become a C500, There is no guarantee they will get that. If they do not get the waiver they will be dis-enrolled no matter what.

Whether they asked him to leave or said they wouldn't support him, Google knows it was the end of the road for him at that det.

As others have stated it will be on a file somewhere within the AFROTCHQ system that he det. dropped, thus the question will arise again.

I know a friend's DD that was not selected for SFT about 2 yrs ago. She just didn't make the selection rate (it is @55%). She was told along with the others, that this was basically the end of the road forever. The reason why is even if she went to apply for OTS they would ask if she was ever in ROTC. Non-selection for SFT is a big red flag.

This is why a few yrs ago you saw AFROTC cadets not selected for SFT jump ship to go to AROTC because it was over for AF.

I don't think anyone is saying he can't go OTS, I am certainly not saying that. What people are saying is talk to the recruiter, only they know the answer. If he doesn't want to do that he said one advisor went to bat for him, email him and ask what are the chances.

Personally, I would email that adviser anyway to ask if they could use him for a recommendation, for when he meets with either the next CoC or a recruiter for OTS. It would help him to have an ADAF officer supporting him in either case.

What I don't get is transferring to a new college is going to an extreme, because at least in this area, where our DS went for AFROTC, his college was the host college. The x town cadets traveled up to 60-90 minutes to attend. ROTC dets are shutting down, and consolidating, so the question to me would be is how far he is going to have to go to find another college that is not part of that det.
 
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Yes I was basically "kicked out" because technically they cannot dis-enroll a NON-contract cadet. You only contract if you or are on scholarship (which I was not) or once you come back from field training your junior year. To answer your question I was out prior to the semester end. My paper work for the SFT selection board review was never sent up.


I agree with everyone who says Google's integrity violation may be a stumbling block when trying to reach advanced standing in another commissioning source. My question is still this, though - how can you "disenroll" a non-contracted cadet? Was he actually kicked out of the AFROTC class prior to the semester end, or just advised that he wouldn't be going before the selection board?

It seems to me his situation is the equivalent of an MSII being advised that he won't receive a contract his junior year. End of story. There is nothing to prevent that former non-contracted cadet from seeking a commission from an alternative source. He hasn't been "dis-enrolled" because he was never legally contracted to begin with. Not continuing in the program, for whatever reason, is not the same thing as being disenrolled. This may be a semantic difference, but I believe the wording is actually important here.

Jcleppe addressed this very question on the GoArmy forum a couple days ago. I'm not saying I think someone guilty of an egregious integrity violation ought to receive a commission, but I believe it's not as black and white as some folks on this thread are implying.

Google, if you're dead set on rejoining ROTC then you need to have some honest conversations with the people who can actually help you achieve your goal. This may or may not be the end of the road. Good luck to you.
 
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A "Det drop" is the same as if I or anyone else would voluntarily leave AFROTC. Straight from the cadre I spoke with.

The school I would be going to would require me to move. I am definitely going to look into OTS.
I am a firm believer in everything happens for a reason. So, maybe this is the path I should follow.


As others have stated it will be on a file somewhere within the AFROTCHQ system that he det. dropped, thus the question will arise again.

I don't think anyone is saying he can't go OTS, I am certainly not saying that. What people are saying is talk to the recruiter, only they know the answer. If he doesn't want to do that he said one advisor went to bat for him, email him and ask what are the chances.

Personally, I would email that adviser anyway to ask if they could use him for a recommendation, for when he meets with either the next CoC or a recruiter for OTS. It would help him to have an ADAF officer supporting him in either case.

What I don't get is transferring to a new college is going to an extreme, because at least in this area, where our DS went for AFROTC, his college was the host college. The x town cadets traveled up to 60-90 minutes to attend. ROTC dets are shutting down, and consolidating, so the question to me would be is how far he is going to have to go to find another college that is not part of that det.
 
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Google,

Let's deal with just some real facts that will impact you. Not the can or can't you, but how the paths can be different with their own set of new issues.

Have you applied and been accepted to other college yet? For your case the quicker you do the better you are going to be off from an age perspective because you will need to be there for 3 yrs.

Are you still enrolled in your college currently, or did you leave when you left AFROTC? If you did was the reason tied to the integrity issue? Will that impact you getting into the next school...i.e. is it on your academic record too?

I am assuming this happened last yr., not last month. Please clarify if I am right or wrong. I am not asking what the issue is, nor do I care to know, I am just thinking out loud of the what ifs and that is part of the equation because again it is more about your age. If it was last yr. I am guessing you are currently 25 and will be at least 26 if you get in this fall, 27 if you have yet to apply for a transfer.

If you are still enrolled in school, than why not just stay and go the OTS route because you would enter at the same time you originally planned. The July board is right around the corner, and OTS boards love prior enlisted. I am not comprehending a desire to go through 3 more yrs of education for ROTC at the age of 25/26 instead of starting an ADAF life as an O1 at the same age.

What is your major? Is it tech or non-tech? Is it a critical manning field? What was your cgpa when you were dis-enrolled? Was it in the right parameters...i.e. 3.0+ for tech, 3.3+ for non-tech?

As you know SFT is not a given. There is a chance that you move to the new college and start this all over again, but be dis-enrolled again for non-selection for SFT.

The CoCs rec is 50% of the packet. He will only have about 3-4 months to get to know you, while he has 16 months getting to know the other C200s. Does he place you above the majority of the other cadets knowing the reason you transferred was due to an integrity issue?

Remove even those issues, let's go back to your age again. The CoC knows the age limits for certain schools, and you will def. be on top of that if you will be close to 29 when commissioning. AFROTC cadets do not go straight off to the schools, and you are not considered ADAF until you report. Rated world would probably be off the list of options because you must be in the class by 29 1/2 (I think). Our DS got UPT out of AFROTC, his class date is April. He has been on casual since end of Sept. The clock for age would be April, 11 months after commissioning. Does he now give you the shot over the kid that won't have an age issue? Needs of the AF always come 1st., and as much as people call it the Chair Force, it is the AIR Force, most AFROTC dets give out about 50% of all rated slots. In DSs class 100% that asked for rated got rated. The CoC knows all of these things.

The final thing you have yet to think about is SEQUESTRATION. Nobody knows if it will occur, but if it does, what we know the AF as today will not be the AF of tomorrow. The 1st round of cuts that came before sequestration, cut the amount of ROTC dets. It is also when the SAs went from asking for class size waivers to appointing less and less to get to that magic 4000 number. What will the next round of cuts include? I doubt AFROTC will go unscathed because if they cut AD personnel via RIF and SERB the very least will be they need less in the pipeline.

If you don't realize the AF has a formula for personnel. % of officers to enlisted, AND than it is % of Flag to Field, Field to Company grade. They start lopping off anywhere and it will impact you. The question becomes do you take the chance that next yr. SFT acceptance rate doesn't drop even lower to a 35% because of training and personnel cuts?

Have you even explored the impact of sequestration on the military? 800K govt employees have already been informed that starting in April for 5 months they will see their salary cut by 20% They will be working 4 day work weeks, thus 20% of their salary will be trimmed to make the budget numbers. Remember the secretaries on base, they are part of those 800K. The administration GS in the det or at Maxwell are part of that 800K. Travel for ADAF is impacted. AF has already changed IFS regs so they can save money...IFS is the 1st school UPT students attend. The point is they are now pinching every penny they can find. AFROTC is an easy squeeze, because they have OTS in place that can bridge the numbers required. It is also much cheaper.

These are things to think about as you move forward, not the re-hashing of how it appears or doesn't appears on your record now. It is all about achieving the goal in this new AF.
 
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Very well spoken.

1.Yes I have applied and been accepted to a different college.

2.Yes I am still enrolled in the same college. My integrity issue did not go on my academic record. It's not on any record (besides AFROTC of course.)

3.Yes this happened last year, and my current age is 24.

4. I'm looking more into the OTS route now, and as many have said, it seems to be the better path to take at my age.

5. My major is Computer Engineering, and is a technical degree. GPA is a 3.4

Furthermore, yes I am aware sequestration in AF. It will impact many as you have said. Although, the AF seems to always do draw backs. Then they realize they cut too many, and begin a big hiring process all over agan. It's a never ending cycle, from what I have seen, and heard.



Google,

Let's deal with just some real facts that will impact you. Not the can or can't you, but how the paths can be different with their own set of new issues.

Have you applied and been accepted to other college yet? For your case the quicker you do the better you are going to be off from an age perspective because you will need to be there for 3 yrs.

Are you still enrolled in your college currently, or did you leave when you left AFROTC? If you did was the reason tied to the integrity issue? Will that impact you getting into the next school...i.e. is it on your academic record too?

I am assuming this happened last yr., not last month. Please clarify if I am right or wrong. I am not asking what the issue is, nor do I care to know, I am just thinking out loud of the what ifs and that is part of the equation because again it is more about your age. If it was last yr. I am guessing you are currently 25 and will be at least 26 if you get in this fall, 27 if you have yet to apply for a transfer.

If you are still enrolled in school, than why not just stay and go the OTS route because you would enter at the same time you originally planned. The July board is right around the corner, and OTS boards love prior enlisted. I am not comprehending a desire to go through 3 more yrs of education for ROTC at the age of 25/26 instead of starting an ADAF life as an O1 at the same age.

What is your major? Is it tech or non-tech? Is it a critical manning field? What was your cgpa when you were dis-enrolled? Was it in the right parameters...i.e. 3.0+ for tech, 3.3+ for non-tech?

As you know SFT is not a given. There is a chance that you move to the new college and start this all over again, but be dis-enrolled again for non-selection for SFT.

The CoCs rec is 50% of the packet. He will only have about 3-4 months to get to know you, while he has 16 months getting to know the other C200s. Does he place you above the majority of the other cadets knowing the reason you transferred was due to an integrity issue?

Remove even those issues, let's go back to your age again. The CoC knows the age limits for certain schools, and you will def. be on top of that if you will be close to 29 when commissioning. AFROTC cadets do not go straight off to the schools, and you are not considered ADAF until you report. Rated world would probably be off the list of options because you must be in the class by 29 1/2 (I think). Our DS got UPT out of AFROTC, his class date is April. He has been on casual since end of Sept. The clock for age would be April, 11 months after commissioning. Does he now give you the shot over the kid that won't have an age issue? Needs of the AF always come 1st., and as much as people call it the Chair Force, it is the AIR Force, most AFROTC dets give out about 50% of all rated slots. In DSs class 100% that asked for rated got rated. The CoC knows all of these things.

The final thing you have yet to think about is SEQUESTRATION. Nobody knows if it will occur, but if it does, what we know the AF as today will not be the AF of tomorrow. The 1st round of cuts that came before sequestration, cut the amount of ROTC dets. It is also when the SAs went from asking for class size waivers to appointing less and less to get to that magic 4000 number. What will the next round of cuts include? I doubt AFROTC will go unscathed because if they cut AD personnel via RIF and SERB the very least will be they need less in the pipeline.

If you don't realize the AF has a formula for personnel. % of officers to enlisted, AND than it is % of Flag to Field, Field to Company grade. They start lopping off anywhere and it will impact you. The question becomes do you take the chance that next yr. SFT acceptance rate doesn't drop even lower to a 35% because of training and personnel cuts?

Have you even explored the impact of sequestration on the military? 800K govt employees have already been informed that starting in April for 5 months they will see their salary cut by 20% They will be working 4 day work weeks, thus 20% of their salary will be trimmed to make the budget numbers. Remember the secretaries on base, they are part of those 800K. The administration GS in the det or at Maxwell are part of that 800K. Travel for ADAF is impacted. AF has already changed IFS regs so they can save money...IFS is the 1st school UPT students attend. The point is they are now pinching every penny they can find. AFROTC is an easy squeeze, because they have OTS in place that can bridge the numbers required. It is also much cheaper.

These are things to think about as you move forward, not the re-hashing of how it appears or doesn't appears on your record now. It is all about achieving the goal in this new AF.
 
Okay let's go 1 by 1.

1. Accepted
~~~ Why haven't you talked to the AFROTC det already if you know the school will take you next fall?

No offense, but SFT selection rate varies det by det. One poster last yr or two on this site stated they had a 33% rate WAY below the national rate. If you don't talk to them, to see what the avg stats are for their det. you can be in trouble next yr.

2. You are 24 now, that means you will not commission until 27.
~~~ Do you really want to be 27 and dealing with 18 yo's in AFROTC if you become the CWC?

The other question is will the Adviser go to bat for you? No offense, but this is also about his career too. He needs support on his OER/PRF if it means going against the CoC, he is placing his own career/promotion/PCS at risk. He probably will cover his own arse in that situation. Sorry, but that is reality. Would you be willing to go against the CoC if you were up for promotion, PCS, etc, and you had a family, a mtg, car payments, etc.?

FF to O4 that is what he is risking because he doesn't know if that incoming CoC will now talk to your outgoing CoC.


3. I would get on the ball and go to an OTS recruiter.

~~~ Here's the problem: The next board will be July. If you transfer you won't graduate next May. If you don't matriculate , which is usually April/May, and not picked up for OTS in July, where will you be?

You will be at least 1 more yr older.

I don't know or care about how much you have in your checking account regarding how you will survive for 3 yrs, just thinking about how DS1, and DD's cost went up 10-15% per yr for tuition. DS entered at 28K and exited at 41K, do you have that saved up for the increases? FAFSA in 07 was 7500 for jr, in 13 it was still 7500. Do you see the fear financially I have for you.

4. Sequestration.

I am old enough to remember the 92 RIF(VSSP), the 94 SERB, the 96 RIF (O4 board). FWIW I was you age. I am someone who offends by saying the AF is bulimic. They eat and eat, than purge.

This is not an AF issue like yrs passed. It is a DoD budget.

The fact is AF saw the writing on the wall 3 yrs ago, just like how in the 90's they were the 1st to RIF/SERB. Hence, why AFA appointments, AFROTC det consolidations, HSSP, ISSP and OTS boards were lowered/cancelled a few yrs back.

What the AF didn't see was this sequestration. They have to cut 10% more, and worse yet, it maybe in Mar for the current FY13.

I.E OTS.

You can't just kill the 35 like the 22. The 35 is not only going to replace fighters like the 16 for the AF, but the Navy, Marines, England, Australia, Korea, etc. have contracted with the DoD to buy this plane.

They employ people that are not military, but in MOC's districts.

I can't stress it enough regarding sequestration, if you are looking at just AFROTC personnel, you are not seeing the forest for the trees.

Just like you are too young to remember 92 RIFS, you are also too young to remember BRAC.

Trust me, sequestration is the 21st Century 92 cuts. One cut impacts the next. Cut personnel, impacts the C status, cut the base/post impacts personnel.

Best wishes, hopes and thoughts.
 
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