Disappointed and Discouraged

TheChicagoan said:
Help out with a campaign (sure helps with getting a nomination)....
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To insinuate that a MOC would reward/nominate a candidate on something other than the strengths of their application is irresponsible. Most MOCs have nomination committees that are far removed from the re-election campaign or the political side of the member.

Dixieland said:
The bold words are my emphasis, but I'm curious why you state this, Chicagoan. Are you saying that you can be rewarded for working on a campaign by receiving a nomination to a service academy? Can you explain how this works or actual examples that you know of? Just curious........
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At one time (think 100 years ago) it was not uncommon for a large political donor to curry the favor of a SA nomination via the "campaign contribution" method, nor was it uncommon for the Congressman to "ask" for a contribution after a nomination was acquired. I believe those days are long gone.

But then again, I wouldn't put anything past the notorious politics of Chicago.
 
Luigi59 said:
Most MOCs have nomination committees that are far removed from the re-election campaign or the political side of the member.

At one time (think 100 years ago) it was not uncommon for a large political donor to curry the favor of a SA nomination via the "campaign contribution" method, nor was it uncommon for the Congressman to "ask" for a contribution after a nomination was acquired. I believe those days are long gone.
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That was certainly my cadet's experience with nomination interviews---our MOCs had large committees mostly comprised of retired or active military.

I think the notion of getting into a service academy based on "who you know" still gets bandied about. I would hate to think that my cadet got in WP based on anything but his own merit and accomplishments.
 
Luigi59 said:
To insinuate that a MOC would reward/nominate a candidate on something other than the strengths of their application is irresponsible. Most MOCs have nomination committees that are far removed from the re-election campaign or the political side of the member.



At one time (think 100 years ago) it was not uncommon for a large political donor to curry the favor of a SA nomination via the "campaign contribution" method, nor was it uncommon for the Congressman to "ask" for a contribution after a nomination was acquired. I believe those days are long gone.

But then again, I wouldn't put anything past the notorious politics of Chicago.
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Sorry if in my post I implied that helping = nomination. I simply meant that by helping out on a campaign you have the opportunity to talk/meet with your Congressional Rep. in a more informal setting. For example, (my example will require a bit of a preface)..
-Illinois now has 18 seats, instead of 19
-My old Congressional Rep. no longer lives in the district he represents due to the new congressional district map. So now, my new Rep. - the one that will be able to nominate me for a SA, was looking for volunteers/interns/etc. to help out with his campaign because his district has grown into my area, and he has lost some of his old "territory."

Okay here's the example: I met my new Congressional Rep. @ a local Republican meeting (Palatine Township Republican Organization), we talked, and I asked him if he needed any help in the Palatine/Rolling Meadows area (his new "territory.") And I brought up how I was wondering if he could fill me in on his SA nomination process. We talked, I asked him why he voted a certain way on a piece of legislation/random politics stuff, then he gave me his personal cell phone number, his house number, and his Director of Intergovernmental Relations person's card. As of yet, I've ridden in his chauffeured car as we went door-to-door together, and we've had breakfast together at IHop.

When we spoke about the nomination process, he said a retired general (Two-Star) heads his interview team, and then there are a few retired W.P-ers in my area, as well as retired officers, so those guys help out too. At the meeting, he introduced me to Maj. Gen. Harrison (retired), and we spoke about the academies/I got to ask him some questions. The next weekend, going door to door w/ my Rep. he asked me a question (which I believe is something he has his nomination-people ask), and he said to just think about it.

Now, does that meeting with a member of his nomination-interview staff help me? Yes. Does all the talk with my Congressional Rep. help me? Yes. Could most anyone get involved in a campaign and possibly become more friendly with their Rep./meet other retired Army Officers? Sure!

So that is my situation, and I posted saying that helping out with a campaign can have other benefits besides being involved in politics, such as the stuff I just posted above. Sorry if I was confusing. And no @Luigi59 - I don't think suburban politics is as corrupt as politics in the city ;)

-TheChicagoan
 
Chicago

To The Chicagoan,
I am trying to have patience with you because you are young. I am also from Chicago and found what you wrote to be an innapropriate and a poor reflection on our city and region. Your implication that's it is "who you know" not "what you are" is offensive to me as a real Chicagoan. The service academies pride themselves as a bastion of meritocracy.
 
TheChicagoan said:
Sorry if in my post I implied that helping = nomination. I simply meant that by helping out on a campaign you have the opportunity to talk/meet with your Congressional Rep. in a more informal setting.

... ...
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Vista123 said:
To The Chicagoan,
I am trying to have patience with you because you are young. I am also from Chicago and found what you wrote to be an innapropriate and a poor reflection on our city and region. Your implication that's it is "who you know" not "what you are" is offensive to me as a real Chicagoan. The service academies pride themselves as a bastion of meritocracy.
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Sorry Vista123, but I believe that I have, to the best of my ability, corrected my mistake in stating that it is not "who you know." I never meant what I said to be taken that way, and as I have quoted my-self above, I meant that you can talk with your Rep. in a more informal setting and be more comfortable around them - which will help with the interviews, because you want to really be yourself at the interview, not a nervous wreck. So again, sorry if I didn't make this clear. And also, as I stated in the last line of my post (not quoted) I commented regarding suburban politics - so I'm from the 'burbs, not actually the city.
Now regarding your comment about how what I wrote was "an inappropriate and a poor reflection on our city and region," I'm sorry to disagree, but my comment is not a poor reflection on our city. First off, as I stated above, my comment was never meant in that way. And anyway, historically, Chicago has (unfortunately) been known as a "who you know" sort of city...

(Again, not implying anything with that, but just sayin' - it has been known as such. Ex: Richard J. Daley's Democratic Political Machine from way before I was born.)

-TheChicagoan
 
I think we are being a bit harsh on the Chicagoan. He is taking his personal time and effort to support a political cause. He said he wants to be a polysci major so that makes sense. In the course of his volunteer work he has some good exposure to the nominating MOC and that MOC introduced him to someone on the nominating committee. I don't see anything wrong with that. I would hope that a 2 star general would not allow politics to be the determining factor in who gets a nomination. All things being equal between 2 candidates, I think the Chicagoan would probably get the nod. But if the Chicagoan was a B+ candidate and there was a A candidate, I am sure the A candidate would get the nod.
 
^Relationship, or familiarity, is usually the tie-breaker between equally qualified candidates for many things in life... job, promotion, dates, classroom evaluation, elections, etc.

The sooner a young adult learns that networking is critical to successful maneuvering in most areas of life, including Military service, the better. A MOC, who has been down this road, would likely conclude that any 17 or 18 year old who has the maturity to network with him has acquired a life skill that most other candidates have not yet developed.

I'm with Chicagoan in this one.
 
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Interesting debate: Based on my considerable experience in this area I would say:
1. Each congressman is different -therefore no "general statements" are always true.
2. The vast majority of congressmen want to send the very best people in their Districts to West Point
3. Congressmen are political people who are occasionally influenced by political considerations-however in the selection of people to nominate for WP I believe this is rare
4. Positive personal interaction and networking with Congressmen is helpful as it is in any walk of life
 
I'm with dunninla on this one. TheChicagoan has figured out how the world really works at a very young age, and I say good for you.
 
TheChicagoan said:
When we spoke about the nomination process, he said a retired general (Two-Star) heads his interview team, and then there are a few retired W.P-ers in my area, as well as retired officers, so those guys help out too. At the meeting, he introduced me to Maj. Gen. Harrison (retired), and we spoke about the academies/I got to ask him some questions. The next weekend, going door to door w/ my Rep. he asked me a question (which I believe is something he has his nomination-people ask), and he said to just think about it.

-TheChicagoan
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So the OP goes Door to Door, busted his but for the Congressman and the Congressman might reward him with a nomination. Sounds like the Congressman is making a good decision, after spending many hours with the OP, seeing how hard of a worker he is and how intelligent he is. Out of the ordinary, yes. Within the Congressman's purview. Yes.
 
We used to think all that stuff too, political favors, etc. At least in our area...utter complete nonsense. However, DO voluteer at the MOC office if it's local. That's good leadership training working on projects there. Couldn't hurt. Our DS didn't do anything politically oriented for extracurricular and we are looking at possibly LOA's & principal Noms to 4 out of 5 academies plus an AFROTC shcholarship. I say possibly b/c we've received (yes, received) calls from our MOC office 3 days this week about the noms but nothing in the mail yet and he inquired about AFA but they haven't responded to the MOC's office yet. It sounds like they are willing to do put him first on every slate which is incredible (if true-I'll believe it when I see it). Very proud of him but relating back to this thread DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED AND DO NOT GIVE UP. Our DS has had a lot of reason to give up and never did...now, it's paying off big time.:thumb:
 
What does DS mean?

chiromed0 said:
We used to think all that stuff too, political favors, etc. At least in our area...utter complete nonsense. However, DO voluteer at the MOC office if it's local. That's good leadership training working on projects there. Couldn't hurt. Our DS didn't do anything politically oriented for extracurricular and we are looking at possibly LOA's & principal Noms to 4 out of 5 academies plus an AFROTC shcholarship. I say possibly b/c we've received (yes, received) calls from our MOC office 3 days this week about the noms but nothing in the mail yet and he inquired about AFA but they haven't responded to the MOC's office yet. It sounds like they are willing to do put him first on every slate which is incredible (if true-I'll believe it when I see it). Very proud of him but relating back to this thread DO NOT GET DISCOURAGED AND DO NOT GIVE UP. Our DS has had a lot of reason to give up and never did...now, it's paying off big time.:thumb:
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