Disappointed

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by hornetguy, Jan 13, 2007.

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  1. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    All I can say is I'm a little disappointed in the actions in this forum lately. It seems I will have to stick only to CC.
     
  2. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Would you mind explaining which actions with which you are disappointed please?

    I would like to make a comment though, especially on the USNA CC forum. There is a lot of incorrect advice being posted by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
     
  3. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Please be specific. We're always looking to improve. Thanks.
     
  4. TacticalNuke

    TacticalNuke Administrator

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    I believe he's talking about the "Shift in the Military" thread.
     
  5. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I gathered that. But what exactly is he dissappointed in?

    Is he dissappointed in the fact that the thread is locked?

    Is he dissappointed in how the debate on the thread got off track?

    Is he dissappointed in the views expressed?

    Is he dissappointed in the fact that there is probably a poser on the forum who claims he is an alum, and claims he is from Boston but cannot spell Massachusettes?

    Is he dissappointed that Zap didn't delete the entire thread?

    To leave this forum and go to CC for any of those reasons sounds extreme to me.

    If he or anyone wished the moderators handled the situation differently then please offer suggestions and advice.
     
  6. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    That's precisely what I meant, Mom. Thanks. :smile:
     
  7. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Strange. However, we must remember. Those zoomies have a propensity, both literally and figuratively, of zooming off into the wild blue yonder.
     
  8. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    I apologize for the time, I was out all weekend.

    I was dissappointed in the way the "Shift in the Military" thread was handled. I saw disrespect from the Moderator side, not from water's side. I am sorry if that offends anyone, but that is what I saw from my perspective.

    I am already a very active member in CC, so its not necessarily "leaving" but sticking to the forums over there for info and such.

    Basically, I'm not really looking for an explanation or rebuttle as such, just expressing an outsider viewpoint for you to ponder. The perspective showed personal attacks coming more from Zap than anyone else.
     
  9. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    I have to say that Z does go nuts on "confused" type posters. While I agree with the intent, it does come off poorly sometimes. Although entertaining, I think these flame wars detract from the purpose of this site.

    Ignoring "confused" types would probably work better.
     
  10. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Believe me, if I had gone nuts on the guy, you'd know it.

    And no, I am not going to extend respect to a person who lies to get on the forum, and then proceeds to blame America for all the woes of the world. So we helped Hussein against the Iranians back in the 80's. So did France and Germany. We traded heavily with the Japanese before WWII. Does that make our war against them our fault, too?

    Sorry, but I refuse to accept that bilge.

    There have been other threads here where opposing viewpoints have been argued, and with far more passion than this thread was, and yet it was clear that the opposing sides were disagreeing simply on what to do next, not that we were the evil ones. There's a difference.


    ETA:

    I contacted TN immediately after locking the thread to see if I had overstepped. He deferred to me. If that irks some, then I honestly and without malice ask you to take it up with him. I serve as SuperMod at his pleasure, and if he decides to take action it'll be fine with me. Hunting and killing trolls and spammers isn't as much fun as you might think it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2007
  11. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Good, bad, or indifferent, USNA in specific, and probably SAs in general, almost completely "brain wash" politics out of midshipmen. The idea of a group of midshipmen sitting around discussing the latest in what is going on in the newly Democratic majority Congress just doesn't happen.

    We alluded to it briefly several months ago when MOC interviews were being discussed. It is the military's role, not to make policy, but to implement it. Midshipmen are too busy with the day-to-day life of academics and the additional military requirements to get involved in political discussion. Additionally, they learn their chain-of-command, at the top of which is the Commander in Chief. They take leadership courses and learn the importance of supporting that chain of command and the proper methods of presenting opposing views.

    Once in the fleet, politics is inappropriate wardroom or ready room discussion. Just doesn't happen. Again, criticism of leadership, no matter how far removed, demonstrates poor officer qualities. If it happened, I am sure the XO would have a private conversation with the individual.

    Officers develop a professional courtesy and do not question each other about their political persuasion. I do not know how my son voted in the last election. My Academy roommate, probably 6th generation military officer, with whom I have sat next to for the last 20 years at all football games, I just found out this past year, via a comment from his wife, that he was not of the primary military political party. Surprised? Yes. Did I discuss it with him. Nope.

    So, when an individual registers on this forum, cannot spell correctly his home state, identifies himself as an "alumni", immediately goes to the Lightening Round, and makes the following comment, he has to be viewed with suspicion:

    I think by the end our suspisions proved correct. I cannot criticize anything Zap did to get rid of this troll.

    With that said, does heavy-handed polarized political conversation have a place on this forum? Does it drive potential members away? Should we consider doing away with the Lightening Round? Or at least political discussion? I am beginning to think so.
    Ideas anyone??
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
  12. The Commissioner

    The Commissioner Retired Staff Member Founding Member

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    One of the things you learn quickly when holding elective office is anything and everything that involves government funding is 'political'. Good or bad, that includes the military which in turn includes the service academies.

    Can you imagine the officially discouraged 'political' comments on a service academy campus, or this forum for that matter, if a Congressman proposed using the latest BRAC round to merge the two smallest academies to 'save money'? You can be sure the conversation would be "heavy-handed" and "polarized".

    My point is that political conversations, even in a military oriented online community, are inevitable. Anonymity guarantees posters will write with much more emotion and vitriol than they would use if orally debating which means polarization is inevitable too. When new information is presented, the debates can be informative, if not entertaining. Like television, we can choose not to watch and change channels if what we see isn't interesting.

    My vote is to keep the site the way it is. As long as it attracts the knowlegeable people that it does, then it performs a great service for those of us new to the service academy world. If those helpful people are 'turned off' by political debate to the point they leave, then I am not sure they came for the right reasons anyway. Reading the Lightning Round is not mandatory; therefore using it as an excuse to denigrate the site is immature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
  13. jamzmom

    jamzmom Founding Member

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    Since the inception of this forum through TN’s heart & soul of hard work, my take on it was that it was a new club house with a bold sign hung outside that read, “No Bullies Allowed”. The rules, clearly stated, were posted up front to deter any poster who came here seeking to do battle with the missions of the academies, parents & our military. Unfortunately, there was a case of stalking from this individual who a few of us on here know oh too well. If Z or I seemed harsh, there in lies the reason. Call me psychic, but I knew where this particular thread was headed from past experience. An all out attack was coming.


    There are a great many intelligent folks here, who make this place work as intended. The king of all DODMERB sites is in the house! What a great guy RetNavyHM is! And how very clever to have a place for ROTC/Military colleges to have a voice and learn what alternatives are out there. Having one bad troll cannot take away from all the good done here. Frankly, I’m surprised that we’ve been left alone since June:

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=10

    Thanks to all who work so hard to keep on track. It takes mucho time to weed out the spams, trolls, ect. Political discussions will pop up here and should be expected due to the nature of the animal. Most who come here will be able to discuss them with some sense of decorum as to not decry what academy kids are trying to achieve. If they come here to insult, demean or flame, I’m glad Z is watching our backs. :thumb:
     
  14. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    You might be surprised. I would venture the typical academy conversation would be more along the lines of "what can we do to minimize the impact?" and "what are we going to do in the future to make things work?" rather than "What in the heck are those a$$holes thinking?".
     
  15. RetNavyHM

    RetNavyHM USN (RET)

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    You make me blush! :redface: I'd been lurking around the CC forum for a while, never felt comfortable jumping in there. When I found this forum back in June it felt much more comfortable, with a lot less of the mess than the CC forum. I decided that this was the place for me, and so far I've been welcomed with open arms.

    This forum isn't here to sway someone’s decision to join the military, this isn't a recruiting tool. This is a group of former military, active military, and the parents of alumni gathering around to share information on the application process (admin and medical), give support during the difficult times (who said life was easy?), to cheer those who have made it, comfort those who haven't, and I'm hoping, to follow the lives of these young men and women as they grow into the fine military officers that we know they can all become.

    The interloper to this forum apparently is none of the above, seems to have no desire to see anyone join this nations military, and is more than happy to point out all the short comings of this nation. Rather than trying to assist anyone, he/she was happier to stir the pot and create hate and discontent. I think the appropriate actions were taken.

    Should we do away with any discussion of politics? I don't think so. Should it be kept to a civilized discussion, most definitely. To me, this is the greatest country and government (the system as a whole) on this earth, and I've been to a few. Is it perfect? Nope, but for those young men and women who are looking to better themselves and provide service (and possibly their lives) to their country, I think a little political discussion can't hurt. And if the interloper cannot see the greatness of this nation due to a few actions the government as a whole has taken over the past 200+ years, then they need to find a new forum for their discussions, or just move to a country that they think is better.
     
  16. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Keep it

    I agree with keeping the lightning round. I think there are some areas which are ripe for debating and will specifically affect those graduating from a military academy. I would like to see it remain a civil debate with those threads that denigrate to so and so is a dumb politician removed, but I think overall it is a good idea.
     
  17. TacticalNuke

    TacticalNuke Administrator

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    I've considered deleting TLR (the lightning round). However, for one I think it's just a few bad apples. Two, I know in any forum there are going to be political discussions. The choice is either provide a place to vent the steam or have it build up in other forums where it doesn't belong.

    I'm still interested in everybody's opinions,s o keep them coming as to what, if anything, we should do with that forum.
     
  18. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Don't eliminate it. It just needs to be civil.
     
  19. Zaphod

    Zaphod Founding Member

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    Thank you, my friend. Coming from you, that means a lot.

    Certainly worth discussing. While I agree with Hornet that we should definitely keep it civil, I also recognize that what you posted is dead on (although I do remember quite a bit of Clinton-bashing in my day, and from many people, but we did our jobs anyway).

    Let's see what others think of your idea. I'll admit that I can't dismiss it.
     
  20. nosmileysforme

    nosmileysforme Member

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    I guess if I had anything to add it would be to question whether a moderator (sorry Zap) should be engaged in political discussions where his/her responsibility is to maintain order. I would guess it's probably pretty difficult to maintain your objectivity in the middle of a heated discussion; the sidelines can provide a much clearer picture.

    The other though I have is to second USNA69 and his question of whether a politically charged discussion forum adds any value to this very valuable site. I think the officers approach to politics, as USNA69 describes it, might be a good model. I'm not convinced one way or another, but it's a good question. I'd say that the vast majority of folks on this site are civil enough to engage in polite debate, but what's the point?

    And I'd also agree that if someone's primary mission was to deter our young people from serving this country in the military that person doesn't belong here. That being said, it wasn't as clear to me that that was mwalter's (or whoever he was) goal as it was to Zap. The forum is called the Lightning Round, not the Cream Puff Corner. I think Zap was perhaps working off of gut feelings, which are usually correct, but again that brings into question the role of a moderator. I'm certain that that role shouldn't be to denigrate another's views however unpopular they might be. For the most part, and until the end, mwalter's information was substantially factual.

    And finally, I've found that questionable threads and posters are best ignored. A troll has to be fed to be a troll. I guess the whole thread could have been handled better and I suppose, like hornetguy, I'm a bit disappointed also.
     
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