Disappointing Army AFPT Scores

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Jcleppe, Aug 26, 2011.

  1. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    We dropped my younger son off at school last week at the same school his MSIV older brother attends. Younger son is on a 4 year scholarship.

    They had an orientation the first day and they gave the APFT for the 3 scholarship freshmen and the other cadets that were contracting this year. Only one of the freshman scholarship cadets passed the test.

    They had a battalion APFT again on Wed. another chance for the 2 to pass. Out of 14 freshman cadets only 3 passed the test. This was the worse scores in a long time for the battalion. Neither of the other 2 scholarship cadets passed the second time, they had to sit in watch as the others went through the contracting ceremony.

    A word of advice for this years applicants, take the PFT and use it on your application but don't count on those scores for the official APFT. 60 PU in front of a PE teacher is not the same as the APFT. Make sure you look at the regulations for PU and SU, they are very strict and they won't count any that are not done correctly. If you can, visit a local AROTC and have them give you a APFT to see how you are doing so your not shocked when you arrive at school.

    You only need to get 60 points in each category to pass, but trust me a 180 will not be looked at in high regard. Your PT scores will be looked at when giving out summer schools such as Air Assault and Airborne.

    I should add that my son passed the test with a 280. 90pts PU, 90pts SU and 100pts Run, 11:35 2mile. He didn't kill himself over the summer working out, he just kept to a schedule and didn't slack off.

    The APFT is your first chance to make an impression on the Cadre, fail the test and you will make the wrong impression. There is no excuse for failing the test, especially if you are on scholarship. Remember your tuition isn't paid, you receive no book money and no stipend until you pass the test. If you do not pass by the end of the first semester it is possible that you could be removed from the program.

    Good things come from a good PT score, son was placed on the Varsity (A Team) Ranger Challenge Team as the only freshman.

    Good luck to all this years applicants.
     
  2. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Keep in mind the army will tell you that doing push ups is the key to getting better at push ups. This is true, however I believe one should put in some weight room time to truly improve their physical fitness. Some cadre discourage it for fear of injuries, however it will make you a better conditioned cadet in the long run and not just a 3 event stud.

    LDAC is graded very hard on SU/PU harder then on campus so its best to prepare but looking ahead while you do PU and making sure your body comes down as one unit. Don't or arch or sag at all they will not count.

    As an MSI I wouldn't worry much you have 3-years to improve before LDAC. At that point you should be at least 275+

    Oh and remember the APFT should be changing in the next year or so. It has more track&field/agility events.

    Just some advice for new cadets reading this!
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2011
  3. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Congrats to Jcleppe's DS for making Varsity Ranger team!! It is sad to hear the other 2 scholarship winners were not so prepared.
     
  4. SAG

    SAG Member

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  5. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Great advice, my older son has always said that just going to PT will not improve your scores, you need to work out on your own.

    The advice about weight training is right on, make sure you have a balanced workout.

    Older son did his CTLT with the 82nd Airborne Infantry, he said he used up every muscle he had. The last PT he had they had to do the rope climb, nobody holding the bottom of the rope, with their full pack on, not many could even get part way up, he was glad he had made use of the gym, he was able to slap the beam.

    Aglahad is correct when he said you will need to be in all around good shape.
     
  6. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Yes, I did CTLT with a combat arms unit right after LDAC as well, it was not fun after having a month of literally not working out. My prior weight lifting muscle memory really helped me a lot.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Not to mention the heat and humidity of North Carolina in August.
     
  8. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Luckily I avoided the heat wave of the south it was only about 90 where I was...however it was roughly 6000ft in elevation (running was not fun lol)
     
  9. MNDad2015

    MNDad2015 Member

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    Most in DS's Battlion faield. WTH? Be there and follow through.
     
  10. riroka

    riroka Member

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    Don't sweat it!!!!! Same thing happened last year to my DS - only 2 kids passed and we were like "what the heck??" They all WILL pass it, my son was very fit and prepared, but the heat and humidity of the south threw him for a loop. They have high standards and the push ups and situps must be done to perfection.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Unfortunatly that is not always true, there is an attrition rate in AROTC. Not all cadets pass their AFPT before the deadline. In the past battalions have given some cadets waivers to give them their second semester to pass. With the things the way they are now they may not be giving an extended grace period.

    Of the MS1 scholarship cadets at my son's school one poor cadet has a long way to go. He needs to shave nearly 4 min. off his run time just to pass, not to mention a few more pounds, SU and PU have a long way to go as well. Frankly I'm surprised he received the scholarship, I know the PFT is just a guide to their physical fitness but I would think some standards should be met. I think it will be a long shot for this cadet unless he really commits to it, from his attitude...as my son puts it...that may not happen.

    Remember future applicants....just passing is not enough.
     
  12. Packer

    Packer Member

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    This is pretty disapointing to read. If a kid receives a scholarship and can't or won't put in the effort to meet KNOWN standards they have cheated another deserving student out of an opportunity.
     
  13. MNDad2015

    MNDad2015 Member

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    Packer,

    You've got that right! DS said lack of core strength seems to be the problem. Can't Wii and Big Mac your way out of that. He also said that if you expend too much energy trying to get at least a passing score on the SU's, you'll pay for it during the run.

    Hopefully when the dust settles, those that made the commitment to be Army strong will get their just rewards, whether it's a scholarship for those without or othes like DS with a 3 year AD getting an upgrade.
     
  14. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Meh, I wouldn't put much stock into a initial PT test that really doesn't test the actual physical capabilities of a cadet. (3 events really?) A lot of factors could of played in to receiving a bad score on an APFT during one of the first days of being a cadet. To suggest that the army wasted their time on these cadets (or somehow cheated someone else) is kind of a premature approach to balancing mentorship and retention. Hell, when I first signed up I could barely pass the run now I am pretty much maxing the test with ease as well as putting up high numbers in weight room power lifting. Give em' time before you start calling out next.
     
  15. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ not a waste.

    Non-scholarship cadets win when a scholarship cadet fails to fulfill the APFT requirements. The money isn't lost or wasted... it is re-allocated to a cadet who has put more effort into it.
     
  16. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    My 2cents.... as it is well known (re: Jan and March board threads) my DS did not receive an AROTC scholarship -- however, he did pass the APFT every time it has been administered to him(3 x so far, once before even submitting his application, and no, he's not a varsity athlete). So, I have very little compassion for those cadets who knowing the expectation, did not insure their performance(short of injury, of course) would meet the MINIMUM standards. Yes, they should have thru the first grading period to get with the program, but they should realize a lot of very talented cadets are ahead of them -- literally and figuratively. How bad do you want it? A lot of motivated cadets (scholarship and non)aren't just trying for minimum, they're already aiming for maxing plus.....reality check:thumb:
     
  17. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Of course it behooves a scholarship cadet to show up ready to pass and excel on an APFT. However, there are many factors that play into being a leader and yes PT (and leading from the front as a whole) plays a part. To take a scholarship away from a MSI who didn't pass their first PT on campus is a little overkill. Besides they had to pass one to get their scholarship anyways. PTing for each MS1 will drastically improve as they move along in the quarter/semester, in addition these cadets were chosen for other reasons besides push up count.

    A MSIII failing a PT test is a whole different story.

    As I have said previously a PT test doesn't test the real physical capabilities of a cadet. I have seen many cadets who score 300 and walk into a weight room and look no stronger then a middle schooler taking their first weight training class. This needed strength will drastically effect ruck marching and physical endurance throughout training.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  18. Packer

    Packer Member

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    #1. I missed anyone saying to take scholarship away from MSI that failed first PT on campus. That said there are not many excuses for failing that hold water.

    #2. They did not have to pass the APFT to receive a scholarship. They took a scaled down diagnostic PT test that apparenly carries little weight in the selection process.
     
  19. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    That may not be the case this year.

    It has been told to us by the Cadre and mentioned on this board by Marist that if a scholarship cadet loses his/her scholarship for any reason the funds will not be re-allocated to other cadets this year.

    With all the stress and drama of last year's boards it could take a while to shake things out.
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree, there is very few excuses that I think would be acceptable for failing when the cadet was awarded the scholarship it was placed in black and white what they need to do to fulfill their requirements.

    Now, I do agree one problem is candidates are allowed a PE teacher to give the test and that can be where the fault starts. PE teachers are not looking at harsh at form as the cadre will be.

    Many do not realize that they waste more energy by doing it incorrectly than correctly, thus reducing their scores. DO 75 push-ups and only 40 count, wasted a lot of energy and will tire you out faster for the other events.

    However, a run is a run. They knew that they must pass that time, and if they opted to hang with their gang over summer instead of running in the heat, they will pay for it now.

    Do I or anyone believes that they will be booted after the 1st failed PT test? No! Do I believe that they just highlighted their name within the BN in a negative way? YES!

    Think about it, unless the AROTC system is different than the AFROTC system re:runs, they have the pacer and the back of pack POCs. The guy in the back is screaming that person's last name over and over again to pick it up. By the end of the run, that name is drilled into every POC's cranium, and now they are looking at you more closely regarding what else you are sub-standard at in their eyes.

    It doesn't mean you are not going to be a good leader, it means you placed yourself in a hole on DAY ONE.

    FWIW, JMPO, but as a scholarship cadet, I do think it shows lack of leadership if you need 4 minutes to be shaved off of your run and weight to lose. Scholarship recipients knew that the PFT was going to be a part of the contingency regarding the award. They had the most to win and lose by performing properly, instead they rested on their laurels and placed their scholarship in jeopardy. Would you want to follow a leader that takes things for granted once they earned it, or would you want the leader to continue striving even more?
     

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