Discharged DADT Cadet escorts Lady Gaga to VMA's in INDIA WHITES

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by jake s, Sep 12, 2010.

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  1. jake s

    jake s USMA Cadet

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    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/09/12/Gay_Vets_Escort_Gaga_to_VMAs/

    Katie Miller, the cadet who was separated due to DADT right before Cow Committment this year, was one of four Don't Ask, Don't Tell-discharged servicemembers who escorted Lady Gaga to MTV's Video Music Awards.

    Miller wore her cadet-issued India Whites.

    Is there anyway her actions could result in an Article 15 under the UCMJ because of improper wear of the uniform after being discharged from active duty?
     
  2. kp2001

    kp2001 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Interesting, but I don't think there is anything "on the books" that they would get in trouble for.

    They've all been separated from the service so would be difficult to charge them under UCMJ. Obviously stolen valor was ruled unconstitutional so couldn't use that.
     
  3. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    The world is full of people who need attention.
     
  4. tpg

    tpg USMC (RET)

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    :thumb:
     
  5. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    Nothing more to add to this.
     
  6. rkrosnar

    rkrosnar Member

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    Discharged DADT

    The young lady has a lot to learn not only about life, but the real world. She is nothing more than a disappointment.

    RGK
     
  7. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    A dissappointment to whom? You? You don't know her or anything about her. If you talk about her, then you need to also talk about the other three with her who were discharged.

    Everyone has their own opinion - some say it's grandstanding, some say it's activism. They may have simply been craving attention or attempting to portray what they feel is an injustice. While it's probably not in accordance with Army Regs, I fail to see it's a violation of Stolen Valor or illegal in anyway. As far as activism goes, having them appear in their military uniform was a good visual. It showed to a large (young) audience that these people lost their careers because of DADT. If you know anything about Lady Gaga, then you know she has championed other social causes as well and I suppose if you disagree with her support of DADT you would have found this distateful.
    The whole idea of this was to encourage young adults to call their US Senators to vote to repeal DADT.

    She (Katie Miller) and the others are Honorably discharged Veterans. They were wearing their service uniforms and decorations they had earned at the time of their separation. Not any different than a Vietnam Vet wearing his army fatigues and medals at the Vietnam Memorial.
    They were not "posers" like this guy:
    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/09/army-faker-091210w/
     
  8. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    She is NOT a veteran. Not in any way, shape, or form. She did nothing for her country except earn transferable college credits. Period. Spending time as a cadet does NOT make one a veteran of anything except college.
     
  9. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I am all for repealing the DADT policy. But there's a proper way to go about it. If your neighbor's dog keeps going into your yard and urinating, you don't fix the problem by going into their yard and letting your dog crap in their grass. Or more appropriately, you wouldn't send a letter to the local newspaper wanting them to post that your neighbor's dog is coming to your yard to do his business.

    She could have continued fighting the cause while still serving. Gays are not the only people in the military community who are against the DADT policy. Her activist actions could have continued on. She could have continued with a personal lesbian relationship. All she had to do was "DON'T TALK" about it. Oh yea,,,, that's right. That's part 2 of the "DON'T ASK..... DON'T TELL" part of the policy.

    Sorry Jam; you can debate this one all you want. She was wrong. We know she was wrong. Deep down inside, I believe that you know she was wrong. Even she knows what her motives are. She handled this entire situation wrong. And now, she continues to handle it wrong. And the reason we aren't talking about the "others", is because they didn't make themselves a news item. They didn't brag about the situation. They weren't looking for notoriety. They simply left and chose to continue their fight on the outside. I can respect that. If this girl felt that strongly about her academy environment, and future military service, she too could have taken a similar action. But she CHOSE the media's attention and lime light. She deserves any criticism that comes to her.
     
  10. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    JAM,

    Like everyone else said, there are right and wrong ways to do things. She seems to be trying everything she can to gain attention. I may not know her personally, but I know people who knew her and I can tell you that a lot of the stuff she has said is not exactly true.

    1) Her sexual preference was no secret, she may not have said it but it was pretty obvious. There are a few cadets with a similar situation, but the policy is followed, we don't ask and they don't tell.

    2) She complained about having to make up a fake dating history when that is also not true. Many cadets openly admit to never having a girlfriend/boyfriend and they are in no way looked down upon or suspected of being homosexual.

    The argument with her isn't about DADT, it's about her exploiting the issue to gain media attention.


    In accordance with chapter 45, section 771, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 771), no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear the uniform, or a distinctive part of the uniform of the U.S. Army unless otherwise authorized by law. Additionally, no person except a member of the U.S. Army may wear a uniform, any part of which is similar to a distinctive part of the U.S. Army uniform. This includes the distinctive uniforms and uniform items listed in paragraph 1–12.
     
  11. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I didn't debate anything. I asked a couple of questions, made a couple of statements about differing view points and stated some facts. There was not any debating.

    As far as her "Veteran" status. The US Army and the US Government considers her a Veteran. She is in possession of a DD214 with an honorable discharge. It's always good to separate the FACTS from one's own personal opinion.
    While some servicemembers do not feel a Cadets time at a service academy is worthy of active duty standing and do not feel that their separation warrants them Veteran Status - the FACT is the US Military does 'consider' them Active Duty soldiers in mind, body and soul and does indeed render them Veteran Status upon their separation. That discharge can be classified in several ways and Katie Miller did receive an HONORABLE discharge. (FACT)

    Wow. That is harsh. I have not passed judgement one way or another. She obviously felt she was in an untenable situation at West Point. She chose to leave, others choose to stay. She was well within her rights to leave and left at a point where no explanation was necessary. She chose to explain and stood up for herself in doing so.
    Actually she didn't do any more than the others. They were kicked out but also chose the media's limelight. Perhaps you just haven't noticed. Google their names and you will see. PM me if you need help with that.
    I understand that your view point is that you have more respect for someone who has been discriminated against if they sit down, shut up and don't make waves. You would rather not know.

    These four were representing the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network. http://www.sldn.org/
    Katie Miller did receive counsel from them prior to her resignation and is apparently active in the organization. Hence, her invitation to appear.


    I am kind of surprised that you would be okay with the other three grandstanding and not a former Cadet. Katie Miller served under the same rules as the others. No different. In fact, in her environment she probably had a more difficult time than the other three. In any case, keeping such a secret from everyone you work (and live) with only becomes more difficult over time.
    When you say her service was not Honorable, you should qualify that as your OPINION.
    If you think two years at West Point is nothing more than college classes you clearly do not know the difference between West Point and the Air Force Academy. JMHO.

    Katie Miller may certainly be affecting another young person who is gay and considering a Service Academy. Since they cannot consult with anyone in the military they may be exposed to a view point they had not considered and realize just how difficult it can be/will be to be a gay Cadet. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Information is power.
    I am a little confused why some folks are threatened by that or concerned that West Point will 'look bad'.
     
  12. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Yep, illiegal but not a violation of Stolen Valor.

    Like I said, if they are going to arrest her they are going to have to arrest the other three. The beef can't be with just one.
    Also, like I said, if this was going to be enforced the code police would simply have to walk up and down the Vietnam Memorial on any given day to find violators.
    Perhaps it would have been more artistic for them to have carried life size cut outs of their former selves. Some would still say there was 'grandstanding' etc....
     
  13. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    And how the heck would you know whether or not she has a DD214? I'm interested in how you verified these (FACTS).

    By your metric, a kid who spends two years at West Point and then transfers because he/she doesn't like it is a U.S. Army veteran? Negatory. They're not a veteran of anything but classes and some parades. West Point cadets do not serve their nation. West Point GRADUATES serve their nation. As cadets, they are on the receiving end of the deal. We get treated like well-disciplined royalty as cadets. We want for nothing. We receive the best education and training that money can buy. Being a cadet, while difficult at times, is an honor and a privilege. It is not service by any measure other than an ID card. Service happens when the perks end and the hard part starts.

    Wrong.

    Please, explain what two years at West Point is, and how it differs from USAFA.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  14. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    I was responding to the "or illegal in any way" part of your statement.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Really, because I know many officers that did not get charged for things like DUI and adultery, where others have. Nobody has to say they HAVE to charge everyone. That is at the discretion of the JAG. The AF doesn't have to charge their two. The Army could decide that it isn't worth it to charge the SSgt. They could turn to her and say, wait a second!

    Not saying it would happen, but just saying don't take the leap that it couldn't. Let's be honest the reason they won't is because of bad PR.

    Additionally, in your own words, it is illegal, so why split the hairs about who should be prosecuted and who shouldn't? You agree, she was W-R-O-N-G. Maybe, I am the only nutty parent who said to their kids, I don't care if everyone else did it, if they jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge would you? She needs to be responsible for her actions. Don't make excuses, be like the rest of us and admit, she is lucky to not be prosecuted by the Army.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  16. kp2001

    kp2001 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Didn't we debate the DD214 thing earlier and come to the conclusion that cadets don't get a DD214 when leaving an Academy?

    Maybe it was just ROTC??? Someone want to do the forum searching, I'm too lazy right now.
     
  17. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    USCGA cadets are issued a DD214 if discharged from the Academy per COMDTINST M1900.4D (SEP 28 1993)

    Their GRADE/RATE/RANK (Block 4A) is listed as "CADET" and the PLACE OF ENTRY INTO ACTIVE DUTY (Block 7a) is the place where their Letter Of Appointment to the Academy was addressed.

    I would assume that West Point (as would USNA and USAFA) would do the same.
     
  18. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Possible DD-214 with Code RE-4?? Honorable Discharge but denied reenlistment or recommission status? Wearing of the full recognizable full dress uniform of a member of the military, I think, is disallowed unless reserve, active duty or retired after full service? Wearing a Blouse, Fatigue Jacket, Barret or Jungle fatigues (they don't issue them any more but I have them in the closet) with insignia while at the Wall would not be considered as "wearing a uniform" under the current statutes. Who knows today. If you don't think this was a publicity joke by Lady Ga Ga you are a joke.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  19. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    kp2001 - we agreed that USMMA cadets do not receive a DD-214.
    Cadets who resign from other Service Academies - USMA, USNA, USAFA, USCGA receive DD-214.
    As this cadet resigned voluntarily she would have received an Honorable discharge.
    I have never read of a case where a service member was forcibly separated by DADT and did NOT receive an Honorable discharge. Perhaps someone can find such a case.

    Luigi, you are correct.
     
  20. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Publicity stunt, yes. It was designed to be provacative and to reach a targeted audience. I actually have more of a problem with the adults who paraded with her. At least Katie is in the same peer group of the audience watching the show.


    LOL. She is not any "luckier" than any of the other former service members who escorted Lady GaGa. Seriously, bring on the uniform police. Who would arrest her?
    If anything the Army would send her a letter reminding her she is not AD any longer.
    Like, I said - I have never seen a Vietnam Vet arrested on the Mall in Washington.
     
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