Districts without Academy Hopefuls?

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by Melosh3, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Melosh3

    Melosh3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is there some districts where nobody goes for a service academy slot? I know the district I am in is fairly liberal, despite being in a fairly conservative state.

    Is it possible that nobody applies for an nomination? or maybe just 10? what would they do if they don't think they are academy material?

    This is all just theoretical, I know only one person from my school in the last couple years has gone to any of the academies, and I haven't heard of people doing it in my school previously
     
  2. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
  3. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    It is unlikely that there are absolutely NO applicants from that district. But it's quite possible that those who did apply weren't qualified. Also, like our district last year, our representative could not nominate ANY applicants. There were already 5 currently at the academy. So, the applicants had to go after the senate slots.

    Our state probably has the least amount applying; yet, we are ranked in the Top-2 of conservative (Pro-Military) states. (Wyoming). We only have 1 representative. (We only have 550,000 people in the entire state - the LEAST populated state out of all 50). I work very close to the ALO's here. State wide, we have on average about 15 applicants to the air force academy. Of those, about 8-10 are truly competitive/qualified. But even if all ten get nominations, you're looking at only 3 appointments. (One from each senator and representative). The class of 2012 actually had I believe 6 that year that received an appointment. But that is extremely difficult. There were the normal 3 from the 3 nominators; my son who received a presidential; an LOA which required ANY nomination (That doesn't count towards the MOC); and we had 1 student who spent the year before at the Prep School at the academy. That's how we got 6 that year.

    So, whether you have 1 applicant or 100 applicants, it doesn't really matter. You have absolutely no control over it. It's not like you can move tomorrow to a NEW district to get a different nominating representative. And even if you did, many of the reps don't rank their slates. Which means they present 10 names to the academy and says: "You pick one". Anyway, curious question none the less. later... mike....
     
  4. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    How does an LOA that requires any nomination not count towards the MOC?
     
  5. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    343
    Okay...to clarify a bit.

    MoC's are authorized to have 5 "appointees" at any SA. When an opening occurs, the MoC may nominate up to 10 candidates for each opening.

    LOA's are something the SA gives out; they're not tied to any nominating source, etc. It's still up to the candidate to receive a nomination. Without the nomination, the LOA is simply a nice piece of paper.

    Once nominations are made and the board makes the appointment offers and they're accepted, then they are "tagged" to the MoC's. Or they're tagged to other categories.

    Example...several years ago, Senator Jon Kyl of AZ had 2 openings at USAFA. After working with the AZ ALO's, etc., his board selected 20 candidates for nomination.

    Senator Kyl sent the names up as "general candidates" and allowed the USAFA to "rack and stack" them. Two were ultimately selected for Senator Kyl's appointments and they "counted" to Senator Kyl.

    The remaining 18 candidates were placed in the "qualified alternate" pool. Ultimately 12 of them were appointed to USAFA!!!

    Senator Kyl was only "charged" for 2 of them, but he received 14 appointments to his candidates! He was so excited (Senator Kyl gets involved with the process, unlike a lot of MoC's) that he called EACH appointee personally and then contacted we AZ ALO's and wrote each of us a very nice letter for our records.

    That's how it works.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  6. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    Because the academy is telling the MOC's and everyone else: "WE, the academy, have chosen someone that we want at the academy. Someone give him a nomination. The academy can't tell the nominators WHO they must nominate. Matter of fact, the ONLY TIME the academy has any say so on WHO on a nominator's slate gets an appointment is IF the nominator ALLOWS the academy to do the choosing. I.e. The representative lists 10 nominees on their slate. if THEY rank their slate, then the #1 nominee is GUARANTEED an appointment. (As long as the meet the minimum standards and passes the DODMRB). The academy can't say no. However, many MOCs DON'T rank their slate and they ALLOW the academy to pick which of the 10 they want.

    But the academy will give out "X" amount of LOA's. They need ANY nomination. They can be the #10 name on the representative's slate, and that's good enough. Matter of fact, reps who DO RANK their slate, will almost automatically make an LOA recipient in their district, the #10 slot on their slate. This way they still get their #1 automatically, plus their #10 who is an LOA recipient. Nominations vs appointments can at times seem complicated.
     
  7. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    just curious - how did this happen? was it due to the Rep losing an election?



    Yes there ARE a few district for which no one applies for a nomination.
    Some might have applicants to one academy and not another.
    Some districts only have a few applicants - 10 or fewer for a slot.
    Some districts have a few applicants but not many QUALIFIED candidates.

    You can ask your Congressman's office how many they typically get in a year -they may or may not choose to tell you. Just because no one from your high school has gone to an academy doesn't mean much. Congressional districts typically span many high schools. Also keep in mind that in any given year the competition may change.

    All you can do is your best. Get your application in and concentrate on winning a nomination.
     
  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    That's possible, however, this rep has been in place for at least the last 2 years. Normally, the rep would get one per year, however, I believe that we had 2 years where the rep got 2 candidates with an appointment. Not counting all the LOA's, Prep-School, Presidentials, etc... there were 5 Rep nominated currently at the academy. 1 for sure, possibly 2 are scheduled to graduate in May, so I know the Rep is looking forward to this year's nomination packages. You have to realize that we ONLY HAVE 1 Representative for the entire state. Yet, we tend to get a LOT of highly qualified applicants. A I mentioned earlier, we had 6 applicants get an appointment in the class of 2012. From meetings with a couple of the ALO's locally, the Representative's slots were all filled last year and none were nominated. Just the Senator's slate.
     
  9. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    That would not mean that two slots got used.

    My understanding - if the Rep has 2 or 3 slots open and only submits ONE slate of candidates, then only one will be charged to him regardless of how many on that slate got appointments.
    The Rep would have to submit TWO slates for two appointments to be charged. Hence, he would have to do this knowingly - which he may have.
    I know a couple of years ago an outgoing Rep submitted two slates to cover both his open slots and left the new Rep without a slot for a year.
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    I don't think that is true. But I could be wrong. if you look at the "normal" nominations: That comes up to 3125, out of the 4000. That leaves roughly 220 additional PER YEAR. These I believe are the LOA's, Athletic, Superintendent's, prior enlisted, prep school, etc... Which these DON'T count towards the rep or their total numbers. But they obviously count towards the 4000-4400 in place. As does the inclusion of international students. Point is, I believe that if more than one individual receives a appointment, whether as ranked slate #1 or through the general pool, and their nomination is from the same Rep, then it counts towards that reps' 5 slots; unless it's part of the academy's appointments such as LOA, Super, etc...

    100 United States Senators (5 each). 500
    435 United States Representatives (5 each). 2,175
    Vice President . 5
    District of Columbia . 5
    Puerto Rico . 6
    American Samoa . 3
    Guam . 3
    Virgin Islands . 3
    Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands . 1
    Children of Deceased or Disabled Veterans or Children of Persons
    in a Missing Status. 65
    International Students (Maximum allowed annually by law). 60
    Presidential. 100
    Regular Components. 85
    Reserve Components.85
    Honor Military and Naval Schools, AFROTC and AFJROTC. 20
    Children of Medal of Honor Recipients . No Limit
    Qualified Alternates. Number needed to fill each class
     
  11. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not true. Only those candidates receiving primary nominations from a MOC, either a principal or a top ranked competitive, will be charged against that MOC. All from the national pool, including LOAs, will be appointed by the Secretary of that particular service and will not be charged to the MOC.

    LOAs, by the way, must be assigned to either a nomination from which an appointment can legitimately be made or appointed by the Superintendent. IOW, an LOA might very well fill the MOC’s single available slate.

    Prior enlisted, either reserve or regular, and Academy Prep school graduates, if not charged to a MOC or not competitive for national pool competition, will be appointed by the Secretary of that particular service.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    1,444
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think you are attempting to mix apples and oranges here. Some of your listed quantities which you apparently used to arrive at the 3125 are totals allowed at the academy at one time, MOCs, children of disable vets, etc, while some are annual quantities, Presidential, regualar and reserve components, etc. Also, many of the above categories are not completely filled each year. Additionally, remember that 1500 or so offers must be made annually in order to fill the 1200 or so openings. The following is, I am sure, Academy specific, but I have been told by very reliable sources on more than one occasion that for USNA over 500 appointments each year are from the national pool. With that said, rest assured that it is a very very competitive appointment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  13. futureAFA

    futureAFA Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kind of delayed here, but before you guys (or girls) talked about not being many applicants. Not sure about my whole district but my school is SO liberal! When I mention I want to join AF to some people (only if they ask, and are my friends, I hate over publicizing stuff like that) they look at me like I have 3 eyes. It is very anti-war/military. Nobody goes into service academies from my school, but a fairly high amount go to Ivy League.

    But there is an Air Force base about 10 miles from my school, which means a decent amount of nomination applicants probably. But I don’t care really, if I’m not good enough to get a nomination from a less competitive state (but like all others still competitive) I’m obviously not going to be appointed.
     
  14. summer1942

    summer1942 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you sure about this? You really mean that if you are the number 1 on the nomination list, meet DODMERB and minimum standard then USNA must accept you ?

    What is the minimum standard? the lowest SAT, lowest GPA score?
     
  15. summer1942

    summer1942 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    If this statement is true, then I think this is the problem of nomination system. USCGA does not require the nomination, they can pick the best candidate per their academic standard.

    If you are the son of an Admiral, then you are automatically accept as long as you meet the "minimum" requirements such as SAT math of 400, reading at 350, writing at 200, GPA at 2.5 etc...
     
  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2008
    Messages:
    4,963
    Likes Received:
    872
    Don't mix apples (Nomination academies; West Point, Annapolis, Merchant marines, and Air Force), with oranges (Non-Nomination academies; Coast Guard). The fact is; while MOST MOC's no longer RANK their slate with a "Principle" nominee,,,,, SOME STILL DO. Most give a slate of 10 to the respective academy, and have them choose the one that scores the HIGHEST on the academy's scoring. The MOC is there to provide a list of 10. However, if the MOC DOES RANK their slate, and they have an open slot, and the nominee is qualified in ALL areas of the academy's criteria, then that Principle nominee is guaranteed the appointment.

    Now the coast guard and the merchant marines can't physically do this. It's not possible. There's 453 representatives alone. These academies don't have that many slots. The Merchant Marines do use nominations, but they do the "Competitive" process. "Best overall scores, from that MOC's slate, get the open slots". That's also how the majority of Army/Navy/Air Force MOC slots are filled. But the fact remains that they CAN rank their slate and offer a "Principle Nominee". Our last state's representative ALWAYS ranked her slate of ten. She believed it was HER responsibility to say who deserves the appointment. "Obviously they all have to be academy qualified". The most recent representative, gives a slate of 10 to the academy, and allows them to choose.

    This is NOT a problem with the nomination process. Many have rationalized allowing the academy to choose, by saying it brings in the BEST from each state/district. Truth is, it is the MOC's responsibility to put "Their Best" into the academy. They have given back that responsibility to the academy because like MOST of our congressmen and senators, they are derelict in their duties. But they'll lie and say they are trusting the academy. If that was true, then there'd be absolutely NO reason for a MOC interview. Everyone gets an ALO interview. Have the academies ensure that they have 5 from each representative at the academy at one time, 5 from each senator, 100 each year from presidential, etc.... and let the academy just choose the best from all the applications and ALO/MALO/BGO interviews. Don't need nominations. The reason behind Nominations, was because it's the MOC's Responsibility to choose the best from their state that they want at the academy.

    What is troubling is the coast guard minimums you mentioned. I hope these aren't actual numbers. Anyone can get into the coast guard with these numbers.
    Hell, the merchant marines, Minimum qualifying scores for the SAT Reasoning Test are 510 for Critical Reading and 560 Math. Actually, I looked up the coast guard. They specifically say that they DON'T HAVE MINIMUM STANDARDS. Damn!!!! Granted, those they are accepting have decent scores, but the other branches are pretty proud of saying you'll have at least e.g. 25 ACT in basket weaving or 560 SAT underwater painting.
     

Share This Page