Do I have a good chance?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Robbie, Nov 16, 2011.

  1. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    Hey guys! I'm applying for the NROTC Scholarship - Marine Option, and I was wanting to get your opinion on what my chances are of being accepted into Annapolis, or granted the NROTC Scholarship?

    - 3.3 Cumulative GPA (Unweighted)
    - Took 9 AP classes in high school. (Euro, Bio, English Language, US History, Government, Macro Economics, English Literature, Spanish Language and Psychology)(I've gotten all A's in these other than 1st semester of Bio, English Language and Econ.)
    Haven't taken the tests for classes this year, but in the past two years, I've gotten a 5, two 4's and a 3.
    - 200+ hours of community service: in which, I held 2 leadership positions.
    -JV Football in my sophomore year and Varsity in my junior year
    - Class rank: 180 out of 608. (Top 29%)
    - SAT: 1650, but I'm retaking it to improve my score. I'm estimating my next score will be about 1850/1900.
    - Had a total of 3 jobs throughout high school - in my freshman, sophomore, and junior years.
    - Numerous letters of recommendation from teachers, instructors, employers, etc.
    - Current member of the DEP - I frequent the local RSS to PT with the recruiters.
    - Interested in a Psychology degree, and an Intelligence MOS at UCSD.
    - I haven't done an official PFT yet, but my estimated score is about a 235, but I am working on improving it.

    I've started my NROTC app, and I have everything done but the second essay prompt. I think if I increase my PFT to 275 or so, and increase my SAT, I have a chance. Any thoughts?
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    ^^^ I agree with your conclusion. SAT and PFT both need improvement. Get your application in ASAP as some boards have already met. Always have a plan B which may mean college on your dime and participating in NROTC without the scholarship as a College Programmer. Good luck! :thumb:
     
  3. Blake3348

    Blake3348 USMA Appointee 2016

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    Your GPA is about the same as mine, although I have not had 9 AP classes throughout high school. Very commendable because I took about 4 and thought that was a load. I was awarded the AROTC scholarship, but don't know how that compares to NROTC as far as what it seems the standard for that scholarship may be. I was also involved in a ton of athletics and EC's as well as holding about 4 captainships, so that more than likely helped me out a lot. For Navy, focus on your Critical Reading and Math. I'd take the SAT (as it sounds like that is where your strong point is) at least once more but twice could not hurt. Focus on the math section and then the reading section to get a good shot at a high superscore. It also depends on the school that your wanting to take the NROTC scholarship with, because you not only have to meet that school's admission policy but also be one of their top choices for a scholarship. Also, with your schedule of AP classes that you have had throughout high school, do you think the ACT would be a better test for you? It's more of a "what you know" test and not so much a "manipulation" test like the SAT is considered to be.

    Overall, its hard to say what your chances are (though I know your dying to know because I was in your situation not even a month ago). Be sure you keep in touch with your liason for NROTC and see if you can't write a personal statement on your behalf. I did that for West Point and I know that helped me a lot.

    Best of luck!
     
  4. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    I wouldn't take these numbers as gold, as I'd like to bounce them off Marist and Clarkson first, but the ROO at my battalion said that the average for the first board was: 30 ACT, 3.8 GPA. I'm not sure if this is CC wide or just my Brigade (5th BDE).

    Don't let this discourage you. It is not just academics, you put everything you've accomplished down and if they think you should get a scholarship, you will (hopefully) have one.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    -Bull-

    Marist and Clarkson are Army, not Navy. I understand why you stated that because Blake discussed AROTC, but the OP is only interested in the Navy.

    Robbie,

    The only chance any one should give you is that you have 100% chance of not getting one if you do not apply.

    IMPO, your stats are too low for USNA, especially the SAT, but you may be the perfect candidate for NAPS. (Prep). SA cadets usually enter with high 600's on each section. USNA is for all purposes a university that is math/science oriented and that is why they have such high SAT scores.

    NROTC is considered among the 3 as the most competitive, but the unique quality that it has compared to AFROTC is the recipient is tied to the school. In other words the mid at NCST will have different stats than the mid at TAMU and the mid at UPenn. The school matters in the decision making process. This is why it is important to select the right schools for your list. If you place all Ivies, chances are you will not get a scholarship, based on the fact that academically you are not a match.

    Good luck. Submit your paperwork regardless of what anyone says. I have been here for 4 yrs. I have seen posters ask chances with amazing resumes, and everyone saying they were a lock, to only get the "at this time" letter. I have seen others where posters felt they had no chance to get "Congrats, we would like" letter.
     
  6. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    OK, you asked two questions --

    Annapolis: a real long-shot. Even if you are targeting Marines, the Naval Academy has academic standards and required courses that are geared toward preparing aviators and nuclear engineers. Sure there are plenty of history, Econ, etc. majors at Annapolis, but everyone must take a year of Calculus, a year of Chemistry, and other sciences.

    NROTC - Marine Option: a WHOLE other ballgame. Academics are pulled WAY to the back on this, as unlike NROTC-Navy Option, a mid is not required to take a year of Calculus, a year of Calculus based Physics, and maybe a year of Chemistry -- not sure about Chemistry ... that's ALL mids, regardless of major. Additionally, 85% of Navy Option scholarships must be for STEM majors. For Marine Option, your intended major does not factor into the Selection Board's decision And you don't have to take a year each of Calculus, Physics and Chemistry.

    If I were to guess, I'd say the evaluation crieteria at the Selection Boards are like this:

    - Annapolis or NROTC-Navy Option: 50% academics, 30% Leadership, 20% Athletic
    - NROTC-Marine Option: 45% Athletic, 45% Leadership, 10% Academics
     
  7. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    Well, weighted my GPA is about 3.6, which isn't too good, but there's nothing I can do about that now, my math grades in school were straight C's. That's that one class that didn't really click for me; it didn't help that my teachers were not the best.

    Kinnem: Thank you for the advice! I hope those improvements will be enough!


    Blake: Congrats on getting the ARTOC scholarship, and thank you for your advice! I'm retaking the SAT again in December, and I'm taking the ACT for the first time in December as well; I've been studying my *** off, so I can only hope I do well.

    Bull: Damn, those are some high numbers! Unweighted though, my GPA isn't too far from that, and we'll have to see how I do on my next ACT and SAT

    Pima: Thank you for your advice! NAPS probably wouldn't be a bad idea, and definitely better than not getting in at all! How would I go about doing that? And if I put down University of California, San Diego, as my number one, do you think that would improve my chances? And I'm going psychology because that would help most with intelligence, which is my MOS. Again, thank you for the advice!

    Dunninla:
    For Annapolis, I think I could survive the science classes, my only troubles would be with the math, but wouldn't you only have to take a certain number of math classes if you're going for a psychology major? I know my SAT's aren't the best, but I have a feeling that I'll get somewhere between a 1850-1900 for my next one, and hopefully a 28+ on my ACT.
    And so you think I would have a better chance of going through NROTC than Annapolis? Just for clarification.
     
  8. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    For the Marine Corps Option you will really need to get your PFT up.

    Your GPA looks just OK, a lot of applicants with higher GPA's did not get a scholarship last year. What was your SAT for just the Math and Reading portion of the test, they don't really look at the writing section.

    Athletics in school will be a big factor as well as leadership positions both in and outside of school. Examples; Captain of a school sports team, Eagle Scout, Class Officer, JROTC leadership just to name a few. Varsity sports are important and being on more then one team is a help.

    Start talking to NROTC at the school you wish to attend about the options other then the scholarship. There are plenty of College Programmers here that can give you advice and the ins and outs of that program.

    I have to agree with Dunninla, USNA is a very big long shot, considering your GPA and SAT scores.

    Realize that UC San Diego is a very popular NROTC school, the stats for scholarship awardees for that school will be very high.
     
  9. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    Jcleppe: I talked with the GSGT at my recruiting station, and he said I just need to get it above 260, which isn't too bad. I think I'll be able to do that, depending on when the next PFT date is.
    My SAT without the writing was 1100: 600 for reading, and 500 for math. Again, I'm terrible at math.
    I was involved with Varsity football, but I was never captain - I was only a leader in various volunteer efforts that I did.
    And I'm sorry, but what are college programmers? I will contact UCSD tomorrow.
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Yes, much better chance with NROTC-Marine option.

    Even Psych majors at Annapolis have to take and pass a year of Calculus, a year of calculus-based Physics, and a couple more science classes that utilize math. The only degree conferred at the Naval Academy is a Bachelor of SCIENCE degree, there is no Bachelor of Arts degree. It is basically a tech school that tolerates other stuff. Believe me there are plenty of mids at the Academy that curse all the math and science, and spend hours and hours getting force-tutored by their more math oriented classmates (who willingly help ,but it's a major pain in the arse).

    "The Naval Academy received accreditation as an approved "technological institution" in 1930. In 1933, President Franklin Roosevelt signed into law an act of Congress providing for the Bachelor of Science Degree for the Naval, Military, and Coast Guard Academies" from Wiki

    Why would you want to go to a tech school if you don't like math? There are many ways to commission as an officer in the Marine Corps.

    Regarding UCSD: that school is almost as hard to get into as UCLA. SAT should be above 1300 (2 part) with weighted GPA at or above 4.0. I know, b/c two of my daughters friends, also top 10% of their graduating class with just about those number, didn't get in this past year. They wait-listed and were lucky to get admitted in June. Now, I don't know if you have had extreme hardships, single parent home, low income, etc. but UCSD is the UC that most favors severely socio-econonically challenged applicants.

    P.S. Jcleppe, it is University of San Diego, not UCSD (same Battalion though there are only about 3-4 UCSD students in NROTC), that is the extremely popular NROTC Battalion... due to all the sons and daughters of Admirals and Captains stationed there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2011
  11. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    Dunninla: I had no idea that Annapolis was so centered around the sciences only, so I was under the impression they would have more degrees than a Bachelor of Science.
    I wanted to go to Annapolis mainly because it's a good school all around - I didn't know it was such a technical/science based school. I know there's more than one way, but ,y main goal was to get the NROTC scholarship - but I'm not sure if I can; it all depends on the next SAT score and PFT score. If not, I want to try and do PLC, even though it's not as prestigious, it's still where the majority of officers come from - at least in the Marines, so I'm not giving up my officer dream, it's just how it will be accomplished.
     
  12. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    Also, when it comes to my PFT, in my defense, I only DEP'ed in a few months ago, at the end of August. Before that, I had worked out, but I was pretty overweight - 219 at only 5' 9'. In order to DEP, I had to lose 17 pounds in 14 days, and I did it - now, only a few months later, I'm 180 at 5' 9', so it's really only a matter of time until I get my PFT score where it needs to be and, considering the improvement I've made just over the past few months, I believe I can do it.
     
  13. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    You just haven't had the correct approach taught to you. Math is like a language, there are good teachers, and not good.

    That said, unless you can get good at math, Annapolis or NROTC-Navy option (and AFROTC and the AFAcademy) will be absolute torture.
     
  14. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    PLC is a great option.

    Prestige has nothing to do with it at all.

    PLC is just another way to go to Marine Corps OCS, all NROTC MC Option cadets will go through the same OCS.

    The prestige comes when you put on that uniform and work hard to earn the respect of your fellow Marines. Where and how you earn a Marine commission has little to do with prestige.

    There are a lot of benefits to the PLC program and like you are aware, it is the largest commissioning source for Marine Corps Officers, and there is a lot of Prestige in just completing MC OCS.


    Great job on your physical conditioning by the way, you look to be a very dedicated young man, I wish you the best of luck.
     
  15. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    That is true, and I'm almost positive I qualify for the PLC program. I just preferred the NROTC program because of the college benefits. I'm not entirely sure of the PLC college benefits, though.

    Thank you, I can only home I can keep improving until I take the PFT.
     
  16. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

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    This is probably true - I've literally gotten every bad math teacher possible from 5-12 grade, so that makes complete sense. And it might be torture, but I can survive.
     
  17. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Robbie,

    PLC pays you while you are in training over the summer. Also you can get financial aid of $3,500 per year for up to three years while you are in school. Once you accept financial aid though you are committed to 3 years of AD. If you don't take the aid you are under no commitment to serve. If you need the $ for college but don't get an NROTC scholarship this
    is probably the best way to go.

    The College Program is where you sign up to do NROTC as a student without a scholarship. Procedures for admission vary by BN as I recall so you would need to contact the BN at the college you will be attending. There is still an application process but I believe in some cases this is more along the lines of a formality. The is no money involved. There is a some chance of getting an in-school ROTC scholarship going this route. If you don't get said scholarship, least initially. by your rising junior year you MUST achieve Advanced Standing and you would receive a $200/mo stipend. No tuition or book money though.
    Achieving this would depend on GPA, ROTC Performance and needs of the Marine Corps.
    You can find out more about each of these programs by going to the USMC website and explore paths to commisioning.

    PFT for Marine Option is pretty grueling. Max scores are:
    20 pull ups
    3 mile run in 18 minutes
    100 crunches in 2 minutes
    I am sure you can get more details on scoring by googling USMC PFT. I would add, if my DS can score well so can you, with dedication and hard work. You need to get on it though as its getting late for the scholarship.

    BTW, DS is a college programmer at #1 choice out of state school because academic scholarship brought cost down almost to in state school. There is more than one way to skin this cat if you want to commission and serve.

    Good luck. Hope all your dreams come true. :thumb:
     
  18. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    BTW, min SAT score for Marine Option is 1000 combined math and reading. ACT is 22 for math and English. So you've achieved the mins. But better is... Uhhhh... Better!
     
  19. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    The crunches and pull-up maxes are pretty easy...but wow 18 minutes for 3 miles :0. That's intense.
     
  20. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Hey, its the Marines silly! :biggrin:

    I agree the others are easy, IF you're used to doing them.
     

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