Do we really just give these away?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ERAUMattmom, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. ERAUMattmom

    ERAUMattmom Member

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    Saw this article on airforcetimes and was curious if that is something that the military does very often....give away expensive machinery? Is there no allies that can afford to pay something for them. Giving them away when we are having so many budget cuts in the military just doesn't sit right with me.

    http://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...Afghanistan-India-all-want-leftover-U-S-MRAPs

    Remember no flaming...I am NEW to the ways of the military and that's why I ask the questions.....
     
  2. MedB

    MedB Parent

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    How about opening these up for distribution to US and Canadian police departments and emergency services?

    Most of these departments might never be able to afford a new full-price version, but if they could just reimburse the government for the cost to ship them stateside they could have a tactical vehicle for a fraction of the cost.


    EDIT: So of course after I post, 5 mins of research turns up the 1033 Program which does exactly this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  3. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    I don't know the cost to ship via land/sea, but the cost to ship back an MRAP from Afghanistan by air is about the same if not more than the cost of the MRAP. NEW MRAP cost: $475,000. Cost per hour for a C-17: ~$24,000. Doesn't include other expenses of flying one back. Keep in mind, if you take the depreciated value of the MRAP, its much less than $475,000. Plus, we probably pay less than that under contract.

    I could be wrong, but I know that's often the reason we leave other equipment like tents and generators behind.
     
  4. MedB

    MedB Parent

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    Hornet,

    You are probably way better informed than I am, but source I read said air-freight was indeed crazy expensive as many versions of MRAPS can't be sent on C130s. But sea-freight was estimated at something like just $14k.

    I know some versions of MRAPs are over 600k. So even with depreciation and sea-freight... still gotta be a HUGE cost-savings over buying new.
     
  5. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    One thing you have to realize, when it comes to any military equipment, everything is eventually trashed. Either the enemy does it, it is worn completely out, it is abandoned, or it is cut up by scrappers whether it has ever been used or not. It has already been paid for by the taxpayers. Whatever scrap value it is amounts to fractions of pennies on the dollar no matter what AMARC says on its website. Think about the MRAPS. That cost is the purchase price, the actual value of the vehicle is a couple thousand dollars of scrap steel. As a result the only thing that counts is not whether anyone makes money on those pennies but that the functioning equipment does not fall into the wrong hands.

    I had a pilot friend who visited AMARC and saw the thousands of classic aircraft being cut and shredded and realized that they all end up there. At that moment, he swore to NEVER try to "save" a sick airplane for the taxpayers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  6. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I believe some smart folks at Pentagon already determined that we have more MRAPs than our needs.

    Selling, giving away, or destroying EXTRA MRAP makes perfect business sense. It's already paid for. Can't find a buyer, so can't recover any cost. Shipping it back adds cost. Storing it back in the states adds cost.

    The money question is would we ever need extra MRAPs? Less the probability of needing them, more sense to not bring extra MRAPs back from Afghanistan.
     
  7. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    They already are- Driving over the bridge from Pharr Texas to Reynosa Mexico a couple weeks ago and saw one sittin gthere with Pharr police markings. Lots of other cities got them as well. But there is limited utility for these things- they are BIG and relatively costly to run. Free isn't always a good idea for the receiving agency. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/police-surplus-armored-trucks-iraq-article-1.1527650
    http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/draft_fe681730
     
  8. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    No flaming here, ERAUMattmom, just something to help you understand some of the logic involved in Foreign Military Sales (or give always, as in this case).

    First, we wouldn't just give them away if a service wanted them or thought they needed them. But that isn't the case here -- both the Army and the Marines think the cost to maintain a fleet of MRAPs wasn't worth it once we left Afghanistan. Not even worth the costs to ship them back either, as some have explained. So, what to do with them? Or, more to your point, why just give them away?

    Second, I'm willing to bet we've already asked a few in that neighborhood if they were interested in buying some on the cheap, but Imbet we got a polite "No" reply because they also found them too expensive to operate and maintain. So, it might just be better to simply give them away.

    Why? Two reasons:

    - Building "relationships". Using our equipment builds ties to some countries we might want to keep ties with.
    - They still need to maintain those MRAPs, and that means JOBS in the US. And MORE building of relationships.

    See? There was / is some logic to it.......:thumb:
     
  9. ERAUMattmom

    ERAUMattmom Member

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    No wonder Pima married you....you give a girl exactly what she is looking for!!:redface: :redface:

    BTW I have worked in Logi stics for years.
     

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