DOD budget cuts article

[Packer]

It is also important to emphasize to candidates that many cadets received the letter of "At this time we are unable..." and beat out the cadets that got "Congratulations, we are honored..." for OML.

Scholarship or no scholarship means nothing when you show up for your 1st day in any ROTC program. What matters is your drive and desire to be commissioned.

 

[kinnem]

Kinnem,

You are probably right this thread has actually become more political than anything else.

I agree it is more important to remove the political and strongly suggest to candidates that because of cuts it is very important to submit the strongest packet you can. That was my original intention when I started the thread.



The thread took a life of its own from there.

It is also important to emphasize to candidates that many cadets received the letter of "At this time we are unable..." and beat out the cadets that got "Congratulations, we are honored..." for OML.

Scholarship or no scholarship means nothing when you show up for your 1st day in any ROTC program. What matters is your drive and desire to be commissioned. Cadets/mids do not discuss who is or isn't scholarship. They discuss their potentials or lack there of.

I entirely agree Pima. And thanks for the reminder about College Programmers. You'd think that would be right on the tip of my tongue!

 

[Pima]

Okay I have to ask this kinnem.

If I am correct NROTC is also like AFROTC regarding the ability to commission. AFROTC uses attending SFT as the line for rising jrs, but I have always been under the impression NROTC uses scholarship as a rising jr as the line...i.e. Mids in their rising jr. yr MUST contract, and there is no guarantee that they WILL contract.

So how does that work? Is it scholarship selection over the 1st 2 yrs? Is it a board? What is the percentage of mids that enter without a scholarship and get one in school?

How does NROTC determine summer training? Do they compete for a slot or does everyone go?

I am asking because it is important for posters to understand each branch and how it works for ROTC within that branch. Obviously, I am also asking because ROTC for each branch may have to readjust for budget constraints, and as I said earlier it will come down IMPO to what they believe they can cut.

 

[terp1984]

All 4 year scholarship recipients get 3 summer cruises, a 3 year scholarship would get 2 summer cruises and 2 year probably only 1 cruise. At the end of the 2nd year the Mid MUST get a scholarship or advanced standing or they will be disenrolled from the program. So yes it is possible to be the number one mid in the unit and be asked to leave if there is no scholarship or advanced standing available. The advanced standing Mid will get 1 summer cruise as it is a requirement to be comissioned. The big question is how many advanced standings will be awarded of which I can't find any numbers. The navy basically determines how many officers they project to need in 2 years and backfill thru advanced standing and later with OCS.

 

[kinnem]

Yeah, what terp said! I would add the final cruise is OCS for Marine Option and for Navy wherever it is they finally get to use officer quarters and the boardroom, assuming there is available space of course.

No idea on percentages, or process for advanced standing.

So, College Programmers could end up doing two years for naught, but that still leaves Marine Option MIDN time for Platoon Leaders Course. They can commision that way and still get a few bucks and a summer job.

I think it would actually cost the Navy less to give them Advanced Standing than for the midshipman to do PLC and I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be accepted into PLC. Of course if they're a total screw up that wouldn't happen, but I would expect those folks already got the message and would give up on commissioning... perhaps going enlisted if they really have a strong desire? Or even just OCS.

I suppose it all comes down to PNS and cadre's recommendation. I'm pretty confident DS will at least get Advanced Standing someday, unless he entirely messes up somehow. College kids certainly have plenty of opportunites to do that!

 

[kinnem]

And oh yeah.... the DS is coming home today for fall break and bringing a MIDN buddy with him. I'll see if perhaps they can shed some more light on the process at least.

 

[kinnem]

So how does that work? Is it scholarship selection over the 1st 2 yrs? Is it a board? What is the percentage of mids that enter without a scholarship and get one in school?

I believe the process for scholarships for College Programmers is as follows (although I'm not sure if the advisor/instructor initiates this or the student). The MIDN has to write an essay that includes various items (background, why they want to serve, etc. etc.). Their transcript and PFT scores are attached of course. Not sure if anything else is required. Their advisor or MOI and the PNS then make their recommendations and it gets sent up to a board. In fact, I think if they are going to recommend a scholarship they can only "recommend", or "recommend enthusiastically".

It's hard for me to imagine someone besides his Mom and I getting enthusiatic about our son, but then we're not on campus, at PT, or Mil Lab with him so I suppose it's possible. He's certainly enjoying and getting a lot out of his ROTC experience and has gotten some praise from his MOI.

 

[Jcleppe]

I don't think I was being political in my response, just addressing certain comments and questions.

AROTC does send 100% of it's cadets to LDAC, the difference is you only go to LDAC if you are contracted. A 4 year scholarship cadet is contracted their freshman year, 3 year their sophomore year, SMP their sophomore year. Non scholarship and non SMP cadets which is now a majority are only contracted if they are admitted to the Advanced Cours starting their junior year. The Army has the option of telling a rising junior "Thanks, but no thanks", so AROTC does not send 100% of the cadets that start the program, only those that are contracted, and only contracted cadets are in their MS3 and MS4 years.

The Army has already begun to address the budget issue by lowering the available scholarship dollars from 15 million to 8 million and is focusing more on public and in state schools to get a better value for the dollars they have available.

Some of this money will be spent on cadets that plan to go reserves and some on AD, there is a need for both and a need to have the tools to recruit for both.

While the AD downsizes there will be a larger need for reserves. In the long run it costs less to maintain a reservist for 8 years then an AD for 4.

We are quickly going back to the time when very few scholarships will be offered for either AD or reserves. I would just like to again say that the reserves are deemed so important to the Army that they are still offering GRFD scholarships for the reserves, as Marist said it would probably be easier for an applicant to secure one of these scholarships.

I guess we will just have to disagree about how the dollars are spent, I believe as does the Army it is important to recruit top officers to both AD and the reserves, and scholarships no matter how few will always be part of their recruiting tool box.

8 years of reserve duty is no small commitment. Sure the law states they cannot fire you if you are deployed, of course they don't have to hire you either. There are so many loopholes for employers in regard to reservists being called up, they are only required to hire you back if the position is still available, a lot has to do with the size of the company and the hardship it may cause the employer. I believe the commitment of 8 years more then pays back any scholarship money paid. Sorry, got sidetracked.

I do agree that the scholarship a cadet has does nothing to assure they will be successful. The only benefit a 4 year scholarship cadet in AROTC has is that they are contracted their freshman yea,r providing they pass their APFT, this does give them a few more opportunities over non contracted cadets such as CULP for the summer after their freshman year.

Ohio,

I have to say I tend to agree a bit with you regarding the free first year. After looking at the other 2 scholarship cadets in my son's class I'm not sure they will make it. The good part for the Army is that neither has passed the APFT yet so no money has been spent, If they don't pass by the end of the semester the Army has the option to release them at no cost to the Army. If they are allowed to stay and try again the next semester they will be on the hook for the first semesters tuition. I'm beginning to feel like you, if you accept the Army's money you better be prepared to serve in some capacity even if you drop out during the first year.

 

[Aglahad]

I don't think I was being political in my response, just addressing certain comments and questions.

AROTC does send 100% of it's cadets to LDAC, the difference is you only go to LDAC if you are contracted. A 4 year scholarship cadet is contracted their freshman year, 3 year their sophomore year, SMP their sophomore year. Non scholarship and non SMP cadets which is now a majority are only contracted if they are admitted to the Advanced Cours starting their junior year. The Army has the option of telling a rising junior "Thanks, but no thanks", so AROTC does not send 100% of the cadets that start the program, only those that are contracted, and only contracted cadets are in their MS3 and MS4 years.

The Army has already begun to address the budget issue by lowering the available scholarship dollars from 15 million to 8 million and is focusing more on public and in state schools to get a better value for the dollars they have available.

Some of this money will be spent on cadets that plan to go reserves and some on AD, there is a need for both and a need to have the tools to recruit for both.

While the AD downsizes there will be a larger need for reserves. In the long run it costs less to maintain a reservist for 8 years then an AD for 4.

We are quickly going back to the time when very few scholarships will be offered for either AD or reserves. I would just like to again say that the reserves are deemed so important to the Army that they are still offering GRFD scholarships for the reserves, as Marist said it would probably be easier for an applicant to secure one of these scholarships.

I guess we will just have to disagree about how the dollars are spent, I believe as does the Army it is important to recruit top officers to both AD and the reserves, and scholarships no matter how few will always be part of their recruiting tool box.

8 years of reserve duty is no small commitment. Sure the law states they cannot fire you if you are deployed, of course they don't have to hire you either. There are so many loopholes for employers in regard to reservists being called up, they are only required to hire you back if the position is still available, a lot has to do with the size of the company and the hardship it may cause the employer. I believe the commitment of 8 years more then pays back any scholarship money paid. Sorry, got sidetracked.

I do agree that the scholarship a cadet has does nothing to assure they will be successful. The only benefit a 4 year scholarship cadet in AROTC has is that they are contracted their freshman yea,r providing they pass their APFT, this does give them a few more opportunities over non contracted cadets such as CULP for the summer after their freshman year.

Ohio,

I have to say I tend to agree a bit with you regarding the free first year. After looking at the other 2 scholarship cadets in my son's class I'm not sure they will make it. The good part for the Army is that neither has passed the APFT yet so no money has been spent, If they don't pass by the end of the semester the Army has the option to release them at no cost to the Army. If they are allowed to stay and try again the next semester they will be on the hook for the first semesters tuition. I'm beginning to feel like you, if you accept the Army's money you better be prepared to serve in some capacity even if you drop out during the first year.

All good points. I have seen many good cadets go the NG/AR route, some people just prefer having civilian careers. If that person can do their military job well if called then I think the money is well spent.

 

[Packer]

Jcleppe: Great explanation.

In the long run it costs less to maintain a reservist for 8 years then an AD for 4.

I am reasonably confident that this is true and certainly explains the Army's willingness to allow cadets the reserve option.

 

[Dad]

Jcleppe: Great explanation.

Concur.

 

[-Bull-]

PIMA, as always, you offer great points about budget issues and possible ways they will be dealt with from your experience as a spouse.

However, and it has been addressed a little before, but to add slightly more from someone who interacts with SMP/Reserve cadets daily, having cadets assess into the Guard/Reserves is a great thing. The majority of SMP cadets in my battalion are already serving in platoon leader positions with full platoons under them due to the lack of officers in the Guard/Reserves. With the coming budget cuts, the Reserves/Guard will be used alot more as the AD shrinks to a post-war size. These enlisted soldiers in the ARNG/Reserves cannot lead themselves and be really successful, they deserve and need officers in these units. Also as previous stated, being a Reserve/ARNG soldier/officer, does not come without sacrifice. Of all the SMP cadets in my battalion, all but a small handful have deployments under their belt. With many completing multiple deployments, even with multiple services. Some of these guys/girls have put in more work than some AD members. The Army is getting their money's worth with these cadets.

Caveat: These are just words from a young cadidiot with no enlisted experience, only from having multiple discussions and interactions with those that have been there and done that.

 

[scoutpilot]

PIMA, as always, you offer great points about budget issues and possible ways they will be dealt with from your experience as a spouse.

However, and it has been addressed a little before, but to add slightly more from someone who interacts with SMP/Reserve cadets daily, having cadets assess into the Guard/Reserves is a great thing. The majority of SMP cadets in my battalion are already serving in platoon leader positions with full platoons under them due to the lack of officers in the Guard/Reserves. With the coming budget cuts, the Reserves/Guard will be used alot more as the AD shrinks to a post-war size. These enlisted soldiers in the ARNG/Reserves cannot lead themselves and be really successful, they deserve and need officers in these units. Also as previous stated, being a Reserve/ARNG soldier/officer, does not come without sacrifice. Of all the SMP cadets in my battalion, all but a small handful have deployments under their belt. With many completing multiple deployments, even with multiple services. Some of these guys/girls have put in more work than some AD members. The Army is getting their money's worth with these cadets.

Caveat: These are just words from a young cadidiot with no enlisted experience, only from having multiple discussions and interactions with those that have been there and done that.

The idea that the reserve component will be relied upon more heavily is not one with much merit. The reserves will likely return to their pre-war roles, focusing on training and sustainment. The "Big Army" will have more units available and better prepared to undertake a variety of worldwide missions. The reserves will be used as needed, not out of overwhelming necessity like we've seen in the past few years.

Remember that the much-ballyhooed drawdown is a bit of a misnomer. The Army is merely returning to its previous size, prior to the Afghan surge (22,000 soldier increase) and the Grow the Army plan. As a result, the Army will still be larger in 2016 at 520,400 soldiers than it was in 2007.