Does prior enlisted service count for pay purposes?

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by dle2008, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. dle2008

    dle2008 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi all,
    Quick background. I enlisted in the Navy in 2001, was accepted to the Naval Academy and went after attending the Naval Academy prep school, entered the Naval Academy June 30, 2004, and graduated from the Academy March 23, 2008 and have been an active officer since.
    I currently receive active duty credit for my enlisted time and the 10 months spent at prep school.

    The question is--Does the time spent at the Academy count for pay purposes?

    According to DoD 7000.14R Volume 7A - Military Pay Policy Active and Reserve, paragraph 010101.4.d

    -Service as a cadet or midshipman at a military academy is always creditable service for an enlisted member. See Table 1-1 to determine whether such service is creditable for commissioned and warrant officers.

    and according to Table 1.1 it is countable too because
    a. I am a prior enlisted Officer who attend a service academy
    b. I joined after June 25, 1956
    c. My contract was terminated with a DD214 the day before I entered the Academy

    However, I found 10 U.S.C. - Service Credit: Officers may not count service performed while serving as cadet or midshipman, specifically,

    (b) PROHIBITION ON COUNTING SERVICE AS A
    CADET OR MIDSHIPMAN.—In computing length of
    service for any purpose, service as a cadet or
    midshipman may not be credited to any of the
    following officers:
    (1) An officer of the Navy or Marine Corps.
    (2) A commissioned officer of the Army or
    Air Force.
    (3) An officer of the Coast Guard.
    (4) An officer in the Commissioned Corps of
    the Public Health Service.

    I guess one question is, Does "service" as stated in 10 U.S.C. also include time for pay purposes?

    I went to PSD and they agreed with me that the time at the Academy does count and changed my Pay Entry Base Date to count all of my time at the Academy, but I'm not so sure the individual didnt just agree with me to get me out of his office... and I do not want to get back paid for the difference only to find it was right the first time.

    Has anyone else gone through this or know the answer?
     
  2. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,153
    Likes Received:
    113
    This is by no means definitive; however my understanding is that the time at the Academy would have counted IF you had returned to an enlisted status for some reason. I do think the time at prep counts either way, but definitely double check that.

    In my opinion you should be getting paid for the time you spent before the Academy, but no credit for the years at the Academy.

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  3. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    8
  4. dle2008

    dle2008 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah that thread is how I learned about Title 10, but I didnt see any final resolution or any information regarding members that get commissioned through the service academy after being enlisted. Thank you for the help.
     
  5. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    8
    I think the gist of that thread was:

    If you attend a service academy but leave, become enlisted and then commission later, not through a service academy, you may have a case for counting your academy time towards your PEBD.

    Since you commissioned through a service academy, your academy time does not count based on my reading of the USC. I think you are setting yourself up for a situation where you will owe back pay later if you keep the same PEBD.
     
  6. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    342
    The short answer is:

    Time spent as a cadet at a federal service academy, per USC10, does NOT count for retirement credit computation or pay. However...it does count for federal service.
    (a friend joined the USPS after serving and was able to get credit for his 4 years at USAFA)

    I don't know how the other services do it but when a cadet graduates from USAFA, they receive the 4 year service ribbon and that is placed in their record. They start, for pay, as an O-1 with less than 2 years service...and head out on their career.

    NOW...for "prior enlisted" this is different. If you look at the military pay charts you'll see a small table that shows:

    O-1E
    O-2E
    O-3E

    These are officers that have prior enlisted service. Their enlisted service DOES count for their total military service time and they're given a slightly higher pay scale for the company grades (when you see O-3E over 4 years on the pay scale, that's 4 years as an officer). Once they make field grade (major/LtCdr) then they are like everyone else.

    Make sense?

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  7. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,753
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    HOLD UP! Did you just say the Air Force gives ribbons to cadets for their four years at the academy?


    Your prior service time does not count toward retirement in the military, but does count toward federal employment time.

    If you served the required time for e-pay, upon commissioning, you would get that O-1E pay (but I don't remember that requirement (3-5 years enlisted?). That time does not continue during your cadet/midshipman years.

    NAPS time counts as enlisted time. I don't know about other prep programs, unless you're under contract.

    E-pay is HUGE, and an O-3E is making much more than his fellow O-3, but that increase to O-4 feels smaller.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,802
    Likes Received:
    932
    LITS,

    Don't you know the AF hands out ribbons like candy on Halloween?

    Bullet laughed when our DS winged because DS had ribbons on his blues after 18 months AD, and only being a student at UPT. The conversation went something along this line.:

    DS what are those ribbons for? Never mind, I forgot you are alive and in in the AF!

    DS chuckled and said YEP, YEP
     
  9. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    342
    Oh LITS...
    (no fainting)

    Let's see...if you attend USNA...and shoot really well...as a plebe you could have:

    National Defense Service Medal (NDSM)
    Small Arms Pistol Expert Medal
    Small Arms Rifle Expert Medal
    3 Ribbons (for medals) entering academic year!

    If you attend USAFA...and shoot really well...
    NDSM
    Air Force Small Arms Expert Ribbon
    Air Force Training Ribbon
    Longevity Service Ribbon (4 years)
    The day you graduate!

    Can't speak for USMA/USCGA/USMMA since I'm not there and don't have anyone that can answer for me.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    8,753
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    Haha, not sure how much longer anyone will be getting the National Defense medal.... but typically you'll leave CGA with the same ribbons/medals you would from the Navy.... National Defense, pistol and rifle.
     
  11. USCGA13STN

    USCGA13STN Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2010
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    13
    Not so much with the rifle anymore unless you're on the rifle team or actively seek out opportunities to get it. It's not required anymore.

    Plus any ribbons you may earn while at your summer units.
     
  12. SamAca10

    SamAca10 Ensign - DWO

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    2
    Or doing special little events. A handful of us got the Meritorious Team Commendation for doing the Presidential Inauguration parade, so I ended up walking out with three
     

Share This Page