Dormitories and living conditions

[stemthetide]

Actually the pace of the capital improvements over the past few years has been pretty impressive.

 

[KPEngineer]

Does anyone seriously pick the college or SA they want to attend based on the dorms and bathroom facilities????

Actually I did ... if you consider sea year berths and heads as part of "dorms and bathrooms".

 

[derekz19]

Does anyone seriously pick the college or SA they want to attend based on the dorms and bathroom facilities????

Probably not but a mother can ask what kind of conditions their daughter will face, can't they? Or should I not ask at all?

 

[Capt MJ]

Not if she wants to be a military officer who serves in the field or serves at sea, either in a sea service or merchant marine. Not all baths are spa-level.
If DD is a coper who just lets minor inconveniences roll off her back, she will be fine. If not, whether it's a DD or DS, the life is not for them.
Last I visited USMMA, the heads were serviceable. No better, no worse than any other government institution building that has been around awhile.

 

[west coast dad]

We have visited perhaps a dozen universities, in my opinion a lecture hall is a lecture hall, a lab is a lab, most important thing is the quality of the instructor and that of your class mates. Sure new buildings are nice, but a new building with dull people, no thanks!

 

[derekz19]

Not if she wants to be a military officer who serves in the field or serves at sea, either in a sea service or merchant marine. Not all baths are spa-level.
If DD is a coper who just lets minor inconveniences roll off her back, she will be fine. If not, whether it's a DD or DS, the life is not for them.
Last I visited USMMA, the heads were serviceable. No better, no worse than any other government institution building that has been around awhile.

I just asked the question, a mother would like to know. DD could care less. Not sure what a "coper" is but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply. Geez.

 

[KPEngineer]

I just asked the question, a mother would like to know. DD could care less. Not sure what a "coper" is but I'm pretty sure it doesn't apply. Geez.

coper as in someone who copes well with things being less than ideal.

As an actual parent would know ... a parent never stops being a parent no matter how old/accomplished/independent their children are and will always "want to know".

 

[cmakin]

Actually I did ... if you consider sea year berths and heads as part of "dorms and bathrooms".

And as I posted above, some of my sea year and berths and heads were less than optimal. . . and some that I had AFTER graduation were even worse. . . Just gotta deal with it. . . . Would I NOT take a job based upon my living arrangements? No. Even more so now, because when I am in the field quite often my arrangements, either offshore, floating or onshore can still be lest than optimum. . . . and if I refuse, well to the unemployment line I go. There is even a running joke in our office of taking photos of what the "comfort facilities" are and sharing it with our cow orkers. . . . extra points for the worst. . .

 

[KPEngineer]

And as I posted above, some of my sea year and berths and heads were less than optimal. . . and some that I had AFTER graduation were even worse. . . Just gotta deal with it. . . . Would I NOT take a job based upon my living arrangements? No. Even more so now, because when I am in the field quite often my arrangements, either offshore, floating or onshore can still be lest than optimum. . . . and if I refuse, well to the unemployment line I go. There is even a running joke in our office of taking photos of what the "comfort facilities" are and sharing it with our cow orkers. . . . extra points for the worst. . .

Its a KP thing ... getting the worst end of the stick becomes a point of pride.

My plebe year we had a Halloween decorating contest of the company areas. My company and I took great pride not in winning, not even at losing but that we were disqualified.

I've worked on some s....y boats with crappy accommodations but the money is still green and the time counts the same for the USCG. Mfavorite sea year ship was the one with the worst accommodation partly because we were the red-headed step child of the Matson fleet and it made the crew tighter-knit and the Capt more willing to see past the rules a bit.

 

[cmakin]

Its a KP thing ... getting the worst end of the stick becomes a point of pride.

My plebe year we had a Halloween decorating contest of the company areas. My company and I took great pride not in winning, not even at losing but that we were disqualified.

I've worked on some s....y boats with crappy accommodations but the money is still green and the time counts the same for the USCG. Mfavorite sea year ship was the one with the worst accommodation partly because we were the red-headed step child of the Matson fleet and it made the crew tighter-knit and the Capt more willing to see past the rules a bit.

Hehehe, my favorite Sea Year ship was one of the best, and a break bulker, too. Shared head with the Deck Cadet cabin, but there was no Deck Cadet. Colorado Class ship with States Lines. The company went belly up during the voyage and we were seized in Manila. . . darn. . . Did get a release when the COLORADO came to port and the lien was swapped. . . Second favorite was a Lykes Lines Pacer break bulk. Shared room with the deck cadet, but he was a friend. . . My only Matson ship was the MAUNALEI. . . old WWII C-4. One man cabin in the forward house, long walk to work every day. . . and that smell of raw sugar and molasses. . . . didn't notice it after about the third day. . .

 

[derekz19]

Hehehe, my favorite Sea Year ship was one of the best, and a break bulker, too. Shared head with the Deck Cadet cabin, but there was no Deck Cadet. Colorado Class ship with States Lines. The company went belly up during the voyage and we were seized in Manila. . . darn. . . Did get a release when the COLORADO came to port and the lien was swapped. . . Second favorite was a Lykes Lines Pacer break bulk. Shared room with the deck cadet, but he was a friend. . . My only Matson ship was the MAUNALEI. . . old WWII C-4. One man cabin in the forward house, long walk to work every day. . . and that smell of raw sugar and molasses. . . . didn't notice it after about the third day. . .

Lot's of terms us civilians are not familiar with.

 

[Row2020]

given the current condition of his room and the bathroom he shares with his siblings...anything will be a step up! @cmakin , please keep the stories coming. I have some idea what we expect my DS will go through academically and regimentally... if appointed. While there are some great threads on what to expect on sea year the common theme seems to be expect the unexpected! So I am grateful for the insight.

 

[cmakin]

Lot's of terms us civilians are not familiar with.

Probably no need to know what a break bulk ship is, as they are few and far between these days. Just think of what an old freighter with sticks and booms looks like. . . During Sea Year, generally a Deck and Engine Cadet are assigned to a ship together, especially for their first assignment. Just what the KPers are called during their Sea Year while onboard. . . A Colorado Class ship was a type of Break Bulk ship built for States Lines. States Lines, like many US Flag shipping company is long gone. Like Lykes Lines, another company and their Pacer class break bulk ship. Matson is a west coast US Flag shipping company that is still in business. Their main run is between the US West Coast and Hawaii, and they may also have some service further out into the Pacific. Haven't lived on the West Coast for many years so I don't know. When we were seized in Manila, a shipping agency that was owed money by the shipping company had the local Sheriff in the company of a couple of soldiers come down and put a lien on the ship. We were there for about two weeks, sitting in the anchorage in early December of 78. . . another of the company's ships came into port, and the lien was moved to that ship so we could leave. Oh, and a WWII C-4 was a ship designed as a troop carrier during the war. Lots were converted for other use in subsequent years. Don't believe that there are any active ones left any longer, but I could be mistaken. . . . This one was converted into a container/bulk sugar carrier/car carrier with deep tanks for molasses. . . . would bring containers and cars from the mainland, discharge, fill some of the holds with raw sugar, then backload containers and cars for the mainland. . .

 

[KPEngineer]

Think of a cadet as like an apprentice. You are theoretically there just to "observe" and learn.

I was on the MOKU PAHU, a twin-hull ITB that only hauled raw sugar. I had a very small riding gang room but the you couldn't beat the run ... two-day port stays in Kauai, Maui and the Big Island and all kinds of fresh pineapple, papayas and mangoes. Being twin engine, we would shut down one at a time at sea and do all our maintenance so when we hit the dock the whole engine dept. would head for the beach en masse. The wiper would work his magic with some of the raw sugar and fresh fruit in a five gallon bucket which always seemed to follow us to the beach for refreshment.

 

[deepdraft1]

Probably no need to know what a break bulk ship is, as they are few and far between these days. Just think of what an old freighter with sticks and booms looks like. . . During Sea Year, generally a Deck and Engine Cadet are assigned to a ship together, especially for their first assignment. Just what the KPers are called during their Sea Year while onboard. . . A Colorado Class ship was a type of Break Bulk ship built for States Lines. States Lines, like many US Flag shipping company is long gone. Like Lykes Lines, another company and their Pacer class break bulk ship. Matson is a west coast US Flag shipping company that is still in business. Their main run is between the US West Coast and Hawaii, and they may also have some service further out into the Pacific. Haven't lived on the West Coast for many years so I don't know. When we were seized in Manila, a shipping agency that was owed money by the shipping company had the local Sheriff in the company of a couple of soldiers come down and put a lien on the ship. We were there for about two weeks, sitting in the anchorage in early December of 78. . . another of the company's ships came into port, and the lien was moved to that ship so we could leave. Oh, and a WWII C-4 was a ship designed as a troop carrier during the war. Lots were converted for other use in subsequent years. Don't believe that there are any active ones left any longer, but I could be mistaken. . . . This one was converted into a container/bulk sugar carrier/car carrier with deep tanks for molasses. . . . would bring containers and cars from the mainland, discharge, fill some of the holds with raw sugar, then backload containers and cars for the mainland. . .

You just took me on a trip down memory lane... .. I worked on 'stick' ships for both Delta Line and APL. I also worked for States Line, but it was on one of their RO-ROs; the ILLINOIS. My first merchant ship was the SS HAWAIIAN MONARCH [sister ship to the MAUNALEI ex-HAWAIIAN QUEEN] back in 1973. Great ship on the pineapple run! She was a 'feeder' too.. It doesn't get any better than that.. Hitting Hawaii every other week you don't tend to notice cramped conditions or other problems with your focsle; or the ship for that matter..

 

[cmakin]

Think of a cadet as like an apprentice. You are theoretically there just to "observe" and learn.

I was on the MOKU PAHU, a twin-hull ITB that only hauled raw sugar. I had a very small riding gang room but the you couldn't beat the run ... two-day port stays in Kauai, Maui and the Big Island and all kinds of fresh pineapple, papayas and mangoes. Being twin engine, we would shut down one at a time at sea and do all our maintenance so when we hit the dock the whole engine dept. would head for the beach en masse. The wiper would work his magic with some of the raw sugar and fresh fruit in a five gallon bucket which always seemed to follow us to the beach for refreshment.

Oh, yeah. . . forgot about the MOKU PAHU. My only exposure to the Cat ITBs was when I was with ABS here in Houston and would survey the Seabulk ITBs. . . . of course they were legislated away, spawning the ATBs. . my first cabin on the ATB SEA SKIMMER/PLAQUEMINE was probably the worst I ever had to live. . . but it was only for a couple of months. Moving up to Chief Engineer made for a bit of an improvement. . . although had to share the head with a few other folks. After sailing on hawser boats before that, I was used to it.

As far as being a cadet/apprentice, well, I did a lot more than observe, as well as you, I am sure. . . those hungover mornings cleaning out the evaporator heat exchanger (you think that I would have learned. . . ), getting *****ed out by the unlicensed about doing their work and eating into their OT. . . . had on First pay me out of his own pocket to work OT on the weekends since they didn't have a Day Third on the ROROs (see below). . . I am guessing that some of the reputation that KP cadets get is from those that only observe. . . .

You just took me on a trip down memory lane... .. I worked on 'stick' ships for both Delta Line and APL. I also worked for States Line, but it was on one of their RO-ROs; the ILLINOIS. My first merchant ship was the SS HAWAIIAN MONARCH [sister ship to the MAUNALEI ex-HAWAIIAN QUEEN] back in 1973. Great ship on the pineapple run! She was a 'feeder' too.. It doesn't get any better than that.. Hitting Hawaii every other week you don't tend to notice cramped conditions or other problems with your focsle; or the ship for that matter..

You are welcome. I also sailed on the States lines ROROs. Was on the MAINE in 78 and then the old ARIZONA, renamed the LIPSCOMB LYKES in 79. Serviceable ships, just not with the same allure as the stick boats. . . did like the idea of a steam RORO, though. Liked the plant. AC in the control room, top fired boilers, although had problems on the MAINE with the automatic burner ignition. Made it a pain to work since the burner fronts were on the outboard side of the boilers. . . just added a bit of fun to maneuvering. . . .

 

[KPEngineer]

After sailing on hawser boats before that, I was used to it.

As much as a b…h hawser boats are, there is something in their inherently old-school manliness that I kind of miss.

Son, you think making up in the notch on your ATB or with your winch is rough … try pulling in a 900 ft, 12 inch near-frozen hawser at 0200, literally in knee-deep 40 degree water , with 6’ side-to waves on a 30-year old 100’ boat then try and tell me how hard your job is. Oh, and try doing it when you’re 40+ years old. Arrrrrrrrgh !!!

I hated it when I was doing it, but am glad to have done it … kind of like KP.

As far as being a cadet/apprentice, well, I did a lot more than observe, as well as you, I am sure. . . those hungover mornings cleaning out the evaporator heat exchanger (you think that I would have learned. . . ), getting *****ed out by the unlicensed about doing their work and eating into their OT. . . . had on First pay me out of his own pocket to work OT on the weekends since they didn't have a Day Third on the ROROs (see below)

Hence the " " around observe. On the MOKU PAHU we only has a Chief, 1st and 2nd so I worked plenty. When we would maneuver in/or out late at night they would let me sleep and when I got up in the morning there would be a note on the board "You have it cadet" and I would turn the alarms off from the Chiefs cabin. It was a tight night crew so no one tried to put in OT for my work like other ships. I even got an envelope full of cash from the unlicensed (deck and engine) when I got off. I think the deck crew liked me for the times I publicly made the disliked 1st mate look foolish. Well deserved for the number of times he tried making the Chief and 1st look foolish. OK, so the crew was tight knit except for the 1st mate.

I learned real fast on my first ship (The WESTWARD VENTURE, a sister to the EL FARO) when I showed up with a hangover. The 1st put a chair on the catwalk between the boiler tops and said "sit their till your good to go". That was my last hangover during sea year until I experienced the wipers home made hooch on the MOKU PAHU.

I am guessing that some of the reputation that KP cadets get is from those that only observe. . . .

Had a 1st recount a story from his cadet days (Non-KP) about some guy who shows up looking like a full on HAZMAT team, white boiler suit, hard hat, rubber boots and gloves. He starts right in telling the Chief about how this is set wrong and that is set wrong and you need to get this and that fixed. He said everyone thought he was a surveyor or port state or something … turns out he was the new KP Cadet. I can’t imagine the rest of his time on that vessel was very pleasant.

 

[cmakin]

As much as a b…h hawser boats are, there is something in their inherently old-school manliness that I kind of miss.

Yeah, true adventures. . . nothing like having the hydraulic tow pins on the transom fail, at night....never happens in good weather. . . .get back there and open the access panels as seas are washing over the bulwarks and over the deck, have to crawl because the tow wire is a bit free. . . . wrestle with the access panels and then search for the failed hose. . .never the one in front, either. . . or my personal favorite, had a steering hose failure in an Invader tug in heavy seas. . . felt like a submarine commander getting in and out of the lazzarette. . . of course the fine mist of hydraulic fluid in the air, on the deck and every other surface in there made it a bit tricky. . . ahhh, the romance of the sea. . . to be honest, when I first started to work on the ocean tugs, I thought it was temporary and, in a way, beneath me. . . didn't think that after a couple of days at sea. . . and I did like the job satisfaction. . . being the only engineer on a 7,200 HP vessel. . . at the ripe old age of 23. . . . yeah. Most times, with OT I was the youngest in the crew and the best paid. . . . even though it was considerably less than a ship berth. . . certainly a young man's job . . . .

 

[KPEngineer]

Tugs is where the real engineers work. Anybody can hide amongst three other licensed engineers. Best engineer I ever worked with was on a tug. That guy could do/fix/create just about anything. Even when he hadn't done something before he would shrug his shoulders and say I guess were about to figure out how good of engineers we are aren't we.

My personal favorite(s) ...

Third day on a new boat, first gig as Chief. I got woken up with the statement "Hey Chief, ABS surveyor is here". News to me, I didn't even know he was coming. We managed everything just fine until it was time to test the FO tank quick shut off valves. Needless to say they didn't shut off. I had never really seen one up close or played around with one to see how they actually worked. Took me a bit, but eventually I had stared out it long enough to figure out that the last guy had reset it wrong so while it looked loaded at a glance, it was actually locked open instead of loaded to close. By "it" I mean all of them and by "reset it wrong" I mean locked them open on purpose. Most were fairly easy to reset correctly, but a couple were through some very small openings, deep in the bilge and through some even smaller bilge openings.

Same boat ... had a cooling hose (CAT 3512) burst at 0100 while transiting north of Cape Hatteras. Not normally a big deal except I didn't have a replacement hose. Even worse, it was my last trip with the company and was due to switch over to a much better boat/paycheck/schedule upon arrival New York. I literally was getting off one boat and taking the subway to the other company for training before shipping out. If we got to NY late I would be missing my new ride (ATB with 2 EMD 20-645s). No way was I letting that happen. Having gone straight from the rack to the E/R, I ended up "rigging" a new cooling hose (cooling is funny because man, that "cooling" water is HOT!) while shirtless in only flip flops and shorts. Total down time for the affected engine, about 1 hour with another hour at low speed warm up the replaced water. I made the new boat which was probably my favorite brown water rig.

 

[cmakin]

Tugs is where the real engineers work. Anybody can hide amongst three other licensed engineers. Best engineer I ever worked with was on a tug. That guy could do/fix/create just about anything. Even when he hadn't done something before he would shrug his shoulders and say I guess were about to figure out how good of engineers we are aren't we.

My personal favorite(s) ...

Third day on a new boat, first gig as Chief. I got woken up with the statement "Hey Chief, ABS surveyor is here". News to me, I didn't even know he was coming. We managed everything just fine until it was time to test the FO tank quick shut off valves. Needless to say they didn't shut off. I had never really seen one up close or played around with one to see how they actually worked. Took me a bit, but eventually I had stared out it long enough to figure out that the last guy had reset it wrong so while it looked loaded at a glance, it was actually locked open instead of loaded to close. By "it" I mean all of them and by "reset it wrong" I mean locked them open on purpose. Most were fairly easy to reset correctly, but a couple were through some very small openings, deep in the bilge and through some even smaller bilge openings.

Same boat ... had a cooling hose (CAT 3512) burst at 0100 while transiting north of Cape Hatteras. Not normally a big deal except I didn't have a replacement hose. Even worse, it was my last trip with the company and was due to switch over to a much better boat/paycheck/schedule upon arrival New York. I literally was getting off one boat and taking the subway to the other company for training before shipping out. If we got to NY late I would be missing my new ride (ATB with 2 EMD 20-645s). No way was I letting that happen. Having gone straight from the rack to the E/R, I ended up "rigging" a new cooling hose (cooling is funny because man, that "cooling" water is HOT!) while shirtless in only flip flops and shorts. Total down time for the affected engine, about 1 hour with another hour at low speed warm up the replaced water. I made the new boat which was probably my favorite brown water rig.

Yeah. . . I tell you, I thought I was an okay engineer based on what I had done on ships. . . I really learned how good I was on tugs and that infernal SEA SKIMMER. . . . was lucky that most of my boats had EMDs and most of those were 20s. . . Never did the brown water thing, so I can't really comment on that. Never worked in the oil patch, either, until I came "ashore" and was that evil ABS Surveyor. . . . and man, do I have some stories there. . .

I hope that we aren't scaring off the young 'uns with our stories, but this is what life after school is all about. One last story. I still remember very well our first visit to a working ship as a Plebe all the way back in fall of 77. . . now, I had never set foot on a merchant vessel before. Our marine engineering class got on the old KINGS POINTER, the one built in the 40s. . . and we rode out to Brooklyn, to the Moore McCormack docks and boarded the MORMACVEGA to familiarize us with a ship and the plant. . . looking around the engine room, all that I saw were a bunch of janitors doing their things. . . oh, wait. . . those are engineers. . . oooooohhh.. . .. On a side note, and to at least give some kudos regarding the kind of education that I received. I remember looking at the equipment, piping, machinery and all in the KINGS POINTER and thinking maybe I should go Deck. . . and then on the ship. . . overwhelming to be sure. During our last quarter of Plebe year, a month or two before I was to ship out for Sea Year, we boarded a bus and went back to Brooklyn and did a tour of another Constellation class Mormac ship. What a difference. . . I at least had a general idea of what I was looking at and did not feel nearly as overwhelmed as the first visit. Again, it was another reason to put up with the school to get out to sea. . .