Dropping AROTC on scholarship

Thank you, I greatly appreciate your help! What do you have to say to the person that says that nearly 45% of cadets were dropped by the AF a few years ago? Do you see that happening? Also, are FT slots that are competed for, or is it necessary? Sorry, very ignorant to AFROTC.

Out of the cadets selected for FT slots at my det last yr, about half of them (maybe a bit more) were 250s that had just come in that year. Many of the top candidates that year were 250s. It is very possible to come in and kick butt right out the gate. Just because a cadet is there for 2 yrs vs 1, doesn't mean the cadre are going to know them better. In fact, sad as it is, there are a few 2nd yrs in my class that are less memorable to the cadre than 250s that only came in last semester. If you come in with a great attitude for LLAB and PT, do more than is expected of you, volunteer for leadership, you'll be noticed in no time.

I do have to ask, coming from Army, what your major is. It doesn't matter to Army, but it really matters to AF. If you are a tech major with a gpa of at least 3.0-3.1, good SAT scores, and a great pfa score (95+), you really shouldn't have anything to worry about as far as getting an EA (Enrollment Allocation to FT, in case you don't know) goes. If you're non-tech, that gpa needs to be a bit higher though.
 
I am going to take a different perspective.

The OP has decided that from the age of 22 to 26 they don't ant to be in the Army. They have discussed this with the folks regarding the scholarship.
~~~~ Sorry, but IMPO that is a family decision, not strangers on a forum to chime in.
~ I get the discussing the impacts, but not one of us will be living his lifeas an AD member, let's say South Korea as an O1.

It appears to me that the OP understands the risks.

I know my post may come off as supporting AFROTC over AROTC. Honestly, I am not. The fact is the AF is cutting loose many qualified people. It is the smallest of the 3. Non-tech majors wanting a non-rated slot will be an uphill battle, let alone scholarship issues.

In the end would you say stay knowing that this is not a good fit, understanding that they get the financial aspects? It appears to me, he is taking the year opt out option.
~~~He has stated he hangs with AFROTC cadets. I assume that they have talked about the differences in the AFROTC program.

Now for my opinion.

Take this semester and give 1000% to AROTC. First semesters in college are transition periods. You may find out come March, that you like it more. It maybe nothing more than transitioning.
 
Out of the cadets selected for FT slots at my det last yr, about half of them (maybe a bit more) were 250s that had just come in that year. Many of the top candidates that year were 250s. It is very possible to come in and kick butt right out the gate. Just because a cadet is there for 2 yrs vs 1, doesn't mean the cadre are going to know them better. In fact, sad as it is, there are a few 2nd yrs in my class that are less memorable to the cadre than 250s that only came in last semester. If you come in with a great attitude for LLAB and PT, do more than is expected of you, volunteer for leadership, you'll be noticed in no time.

I do have to ask, coming from Army, what your major is. It doesn't matter to Army, but it really matters to AF. If you are a tech major with a gpa of at least 3.0-3.1, good SAT scores, and a great pfa score (95+), you really shouldn't have anything to worry about as far as getting an EA (Enrollment Allocation to FT, in case you don't know) goes. If you're non-tech, that gpa needs to be a bit higher though.

I'm an Economics major with a 3.5. PT will not be an issue.
 
I am going to take a different perspective.

The OP has decided that from the age of 22 to 26 they don't ant to be in the Army. They have discussed this with the folks regarding the scholarship.
~~~~ Sorry, but IMPO that is a family decision, not strangers on a forum to chime in.
~ I get the discussing the impacts, but not one of us will be living his lifeas an AD member, let's say South Korea as an O1.

It appears to me that the OP understands the risks.

I know my post may come off as supporting AFROTC over AROTC. Honestly, I am not. The fact is the AF is cutting loose many qualified people. It is the smallest of the 3. Non-tech majors wanting a non-rated slot will be an uphill battle, let alone scholarship issues.

In the end would you say stay knowing that this is not a good fit, understanding that they get the financial aspects? It appears to me, he is taking the year opt out option.
~~~He has stated he hangs with AFROTC cadets. I assume that they have talked about the differences in the AFROTC program.

Now for my opinion.

Take this semester and give 1000% to AROTC. First semesters in college are transition periods. You may find out come March, that you like it more. It maybe nothing more than transitioning.

I was merely seeking advice, as you pointed out. Not a "What I would do" comment. I am going into this semester with an open mind. I don't want to hate being in AROTC. I didn't expect to be at this point because I've always wanted to serve. This hasn't been easy for me to decide, or come on a public forum seeking advice. I'm aware of the risks that have been pointed out to me. I'm willing to accept that I could face a mountain of debt without an AFROTC scholarship, and face the fact that I may not earn a commission at all. I do not intend to earn a commission in the Army, though. That's a personal choice and I'm aware I've put myself in this predicament.
 
Thank you, I greatly appreciate your help! What do you have to say to the person that says that nearly 45% of cadets were dropped by the AF a few years ago? Do you see that happening? Also, are FT slots that are competed for, or is it necessary? Sorry, very ignorant to AFROTC.

Cadets compete for EAs (Enrollment Allocations/Field Training spot) in February-March of AS200 year. If you don't get a EA, you'll most likely be disenrolled. You need to go to field training to become a POC (Professional Officers Course, AS300s and AS400s), and eventually commission. I think, historically, you needed to be a tech major with at least a 3.2 GPA or non-tech with 3.5 GPA to get a slot. The rankings are based on mostly GPA, PT scores, SAT or AFOQT scores and commanders ranking. GPA is the biggest chunk. I know that a few years ago, many cadets did not receive EA, but I wasn't in the program at that point and everything is very different every year, so anything could really happen. Last year in my detachment, every AS200 received an EA, but a few never ended up going to Field Training because of medical issues that had never been fully resolved. At my detachment, historically the EA selection rate is higher than most; I think this is because it's at a tech school where most cadets are engineering majors. Anyway, the one thing EVERY commander says is, "Academics come first." My current commander told me, "With a great GPA you can go anywhere." Focus on academics, and give everything in ROTC and you'll do great. You might even be ahead of other AS250s from being in Army ROTC! (well in drill maybe - but then even the commands there are so different....:p)
 
Headstrong,
One thing I learned during all my years as an Army officer... sometimes doing the "right thing" is very hard, and causes tremendous discomfort to self.

That being said, you have made it clear you will not pursue an Army commission. It's time you told the Army. It's not right to take another semester of tuition when you are certain you will not continue. After all, you are no longer "test driving" the program to see if it's for you. You have decided. Make your intentions known. Talk to your PMS right away. The tax payer deserves better.
 
Headstrong,
One thing I learned during all my years as an Army officer... sometimes doing the "right thing" is very hard, and causes tremendous discomfort to self.

That being said, you have made it clear you will not pursue an Army commission. It's time you told the Army. It's not right to take another semester of tuition when you are certain you will not continue. After all, you are no longer "test driving" the program to see if it's for you. You have decided. Make your intentions known. Talk to your PMS right away. The tax payer deserves better.

I'm in the process. I'm not looking to scam the government or tax payers for tuition. Not my intention and never was.
 
Just be aware of the potential outcomes of this choice, and be willing to live with it.

What if you don't get a scholarship through AFROTC? How will you pay for college?

What if you don't get selected for Field Training, regardless of how hard you apply yourself?


These are very real possibilities, and you should be prepared to answer those questions and possibly live those situations. Don't assume because you made a 3.5 GPA in your freshman year that you will have that forever. Entry level classes are much easier than upper division classes.

All I'm saying is that big choices come with big consequences. Be ready for anything and take responsibility for that choice, even if it turns out poorly.
 
The OP has answered those questions already by stating that they would rather go in debt than be an Army officer, and has accepted that they might not get an SFT slot, thus not eligible to commission.

To me it illustrates that anyway you look at it, they want out of AROTC.
 
AFROTC16,

Actually the biggest chunk is the CoC's rec which accounts for 50% of their score. This is why 250s are concerned about chances since they will only have a semester to shine compared to 200s which have had three semesters.

Headstrong,

The remaining 50% will include your cgpa, PFA and AFOQT.

The AFOQT is sim. to an ACT. You can buy study guides for this exam. Our DS did not study for it and did fine, but he also had a 33 or 34 (can't remember) in his first and only sitting. He did not study for that either. The avg best sitting ACT for AFROTC scholarship recipients are at the low end 28, SAT I believe it is close to 1300. AFROTC does not super score. Just putting it out there so you can have a comparison from what AROTC scores are compared to AFROTC for scholarship recipients. I am not saying that you are applying for an ICSP, but those cadets will be your competition for SFT.

I would also contact the AFROTC det that you will be joining to request a meeting. This will allow you to meet the CoC and inform them of your intentions to join them next fall. Thus, they will place a name with a face before you get there and you will be able to determine their expectations for raising your SFT chances.
 
AFROTC16,

Actually the biggest chunk is the CoC's rec which accounts for 50% of their score. This is why 250s are concerned about chances since they will only have a semester to shine compared to 200s which have had three semesters.

Headstrong,

The remaining 50% will include your cgpa, PFA and AFOQT.

The AFOQT is sim. to an ACT. You can buy study guides for this exam. Our DS did not study for it and did fine, but he also had a 33 or 34 (can't remember) in his first and only sitting. He did not study for that either. The avg best sitting ACT for AFROTC scholarship recipients are at the low end 28, SAT I believe it is close to 1300. AFROTC does not super score. Just putting it out there so you can have a comparison from what AROTC scores are compared to AFROTC for scholarship recipients. I am not saying that you are applying for an ICSP, but those cadets will be your competition for SFT.

I would also contact the AFROTC det that you will be joining to request a meeting. This will allow you to meet the CoC and inform them of your intentions to join them next fall. Thus, they will place a name with a face before you get there and you will be able to determine their expectations for raising your SFT chances.

Thank you for your insight. I understand the disadvantage I'll be at by joining AFROTC late. As long as there is a possibility to earn a commission through AFROTC, I intend to work towards that. I have emailed the AFROTC det. at the school I wish to transfer to. The reality is, I'm out of state at my current university. If I drop AROTC, I must return to an instate school because I will no longer be on instate tuition at the out of state university. I know I will have to work harder than most of the cadets due to my major being nontech, and obviously coming in a year late.
 
Why don't you see if you can meet them during your spring break. Set up an appointment and ask if you can speak to some 300/400s. This will allow you to meet the cadets that have attended SFT and give you guidance regarding what they think you need to stand out from a peer perceptive.

Ask if they have military fraternities, such as, Arnie Air, Silver Wings, etc.

I would also say the one positive for you is as a 250, you might be the only one out of the group that has ROTC experience which can be an immediate positive leadership perspective. You are not eligible to be a 200, but many 250s have no ROTC experience, thus you are somewhere between that 200 and 250. However, remember you are in AFROTC at that point....IOWs keep the in AROTC we did it this way to the minimum, if you don't you may land up with someone in Cadet Command publicly reminding you of that fact in a negative way.

Additionally, keep in touch, by thanking them for meeting you.

Many dets. have FB pages, see if they do, and if you can join. It allows you to illustrate as a new member you are committed to AFROTC at their college, and not test driving.
 
I also forgot to explain why the AFOQT is important. It is not only going to be used for SFT election, but also for your career field assignment score. In Army speak it will be a part of your OML.

The thing is, if I recall correctly you can only take it 2x and you must wait 6 months between testings.

For 250s this is huge because 100s can take it twice before they go up for SFT, but for you it will be once.

If you want to go rated, (the AFSC board 300 yr) you will meet a different board than the non-rated and they will be looking at the TBAS. Non-rated only use the AFOQT.

I also forgot to say when you do talk with the det make sure you tell the route you are going. You are non-tech, but they will want to know if you want non-rated or rated. For this year, according to AFROTC SFTthreads, cadets had to sign off as a 200 whether they were going rated for SFT.
~ Their answer regarding cgpa maybe different depending on your response. 3.5 non-tech was definetly strong enough for SFT before this new twist, it might not be now.

It also informs them that you have truly done your research, and this is not just jumping to AFROTC because you think it is easier to go AD with them over AROTC.

Finally, if all goes well, and you are selected for SFT, in all likelihood you will need a new DoDMERB exam since yours will probably be over 2 years old. That exam comes down quickly, quicker than the scholarship, and the turn around is faster....no 45 days to take the exam. Think more of ten business days. Again, that is a maybe depending on when you took it in hs ... Fall will be no longer valid, spring you will be good to go, which may help in the end.
 
I also forgot to explain why the AFOQT is important. It is not only going to be used for SFT election, but also for your career field assignment score. In Army speak it will be a part of your OML.

The thing is, if I recall correctly you can only take it 2x and you must wait 6 months between testings.

For 250s this is huge because 100s can take it twice before they go up for SFT, but for you it will be once.

If you want to go rated, (the AFSC board 300 yr) you will meet a different board than the non-rated and they will be looking at the TBAS. Non-rated only use the AFOQT.

I also forgot to say when you do talk with the det make sure you tell the route you are going. You are non-tech, but they will want to know if you want non-rated or rated. For this year, according to AFROTC SFTthreads, cadets had to sign off as a 200 whether they were going rated for SFT.
~ Their answer regarding cgpa maybe different depending on your response. 3.5 non-tech was definetly strong enough for SFT before this new twist, it might not be now.

It also informs them that you have truly done your research, and this is not just jumping to AFROTC because you think it is easier to go AD with them over AROTC.

Finally, if all goes well, and you are selected for SFT, in all likelihood you will need a new DoDMERB exam since yours will probably be over 2 years old. That exam comes down quickly, quicker than the scholarship, and the turn around is faster....no 45 days to take the exam. Think more of ten business days. Again, that is a maybe depending on when you took it in hs ... Fall will be no longer valid, spring you will be good to go, which may help in the end.

I'm not very interested in the going rated. Being a pilot sounds interesting, but I don't have enough of a passion for it to potentially lose a chance to get commissioned. I appreciate your advice, and I am just awaiting an email from
The det. to set some sort of meeting and visitation date. I'll do more research on the AFOQT as the semester carries on. The det. I am considering had a route that would allow me to schedule AF freshman and sophomore classes at the the same time. I could take both concurrently throughout the year to catch up. Also, their website says another option would be spending a 5th week at FT. It doesn't sound like a bad route. Thank you for all of your advice.
 
From what we've been told about that section, they take the highest of your SAT/ACT and AFOQT scores. There is some sort of conversion factor since it covers similar material to the SAT and much more. It's a 4 hour, 12 part, 470 question test if memory serves me correctly. There are also strict rules on studying for it like no borrowing old study materials from friends and no study groups period. You are only allowed to study on your own for it, and no discussing it after you take it.

Until this year the AFOQT was used for AFSC/rated selection only so generally only 300s took it. At my det, last semester was the 1st time for 200s and 300s alike taking it, no 100s were allowed to take it. So I wouldn't count on 100s already having taken it, that'll be det dependent. Everyone can only take it twice in their AFROTC career anyways.
 
You might have already said this (I didn't read through all 4 pages) but I'm just wondering, what is your major, Headstrong?
 
We are getting in the weeds.

Headstrong wants non-rated and he is non-tech as an Econ major.

AFOQT will be the only test he will need.

Non Ducor,

Our DS went rated. Commissioned in 12. He took the AFOQT as a 100. He took the TBAS the real difference was flight hours for weight as a 300. His AFOQT was not a factor for him and the rated board if my memory serves me, that was true for rated 13. 14 is PCSM 2.0, but I thought TBAS was still the exam and the weight goes to flight hours.
 
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We are getting in the weeds.

Headstrong wants non-rated and he is non-tech as an Econ major.

AFOQT will be the only test he will need.

Non Ducor,

Our DS went rated. Commissioned in 12. He took the AFOQT as a 100. He took the TBAS the real difference was flight hours for weight as a 300. His AFOQT was not a factor for him and the rated board if my memory serves me, that was true for rated 13. 14 is PCSM 2.0, but I thought TBAS was still the exam and the weight goes to flight hours.

In order to go rated you need to have certain minimum scores in the Pilot and Navigation sections. For non-rated, all you need is a 15 in Verbal and 10 in Quantitative so AFOQT doesn't matter so much, but the Pilot and Nav sections are more competitive.

And I remembered that you'd said your DS took it as a 100 which is why I said this is det dependent. At my det, historically, only 300s took it, this year it was 200s and 300s.
 
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