Discussion in 'Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges' started by CoachBart, Sep 20, 2011.
This is just an FYI: DS has visited VMI and is visiting Norwich next week and The Citadel later.
Good luck to him- Have a good trip and ask lots of questions! 3 places - similar in many ways but each with a quite different feel to them.
Should be a fun trip I think you will be getting there right on the edge of "leaf peeper season". It's been fairly cold nights already in Vermont (was there yesterday on business) and some of the roads and the area around Central Vermont is still pretty beat up from the flooding a couple of weeks ago, but they are working hard to get it cleaned up.
Sounds like your DS is doing the same tour that my DS did a year ago. He ultimately decided on VMI where he is now a Rat after visiting Norwich (twice) Citadel, VMI and Texas A&M. I must say, the setting at Norwich is just beautiful Good luck. A very interesting process.
Good luck, CoachBart! In view of the increasing competition for active duty slots that will be on our doorstop very soon, I think SMC is definitely the way to go for ROTC (unlike ROTC units at other colleges, SMC grad AD slots are protected by federal statute).
Not to quibble, but I am not sure that "slots" are protected, per se. Rather the pertinent federal statute, 10 U.S.C. 2111a(d),(e) provides (subsection (d)) that the services "may not take or authorize any action to terminate or reduce a unit of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps at a senior military college" and further provides (subsection (e)) that the Secretary of the Army must ensure that "a graduate of a senior military college who desires to serve as a commissioned officer on active duty upon graduation from the college, who is medically and physically qualified for active duty, and who is recommended for such duty by the professor of military science at the college, shall be assigned to active duty."
I do not understand these provisions to mean that the number of commisssion slots for SMCs are protected. For example, if the Army reduced its need from 1000 new 2nd Lts to 500 2nd Lts, then that 500 slot reduction may well be distributed, consistent with the statute, across all the ROTC units in the country, including those at the SMCs. In other words a reduction in the number of new commission slots doesn't necessarily "reduce" a "unit" at a SMC, as the "unit" at the school stays the same -- just the number of commissions available to that unit is reduced. And while subsection (e) purports to guarantee a Army AD commission to those SMC graduates who are otherwise qualified, that commission is also conditioned upon the recommendation of a ROTC professor. The number of such recommendations is obviously subject to adjustment each year. Please note that subsection (e), by its terms, is applicable only to the Secretary of the Army -- subsection (e) thus does not apply to the Secretary of the Navy (and by extension the Marines) or the Secretary of the Air Force. The Navy, the Marines and the Air Force are thus not required to offer commissions under this statute, only the Army is.
If any of this is incorrect, I would be delighted to hear that as my DS wants a Marine commission, but if you think I am wrong in this please provide details and references. I would like to check this out. (And yes, I am a lawyer).
For those interested, the federal statute is 10 U.S.C. 2111a, and pertinent subsections are (d) and (e). I have reproduced the entire Section 2111a below:
10 U.S.C.A. § 2111a .
United States Code Annotated
Title 10. Armed Forces (Refs & Annos)
Subtitle A. General Military Law (Refs & Annos)
Part III. Training and Education
Chapter 103. Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps (Refs & Annos)
§ 2111a. Support for senior military colleges
(a) Detail of officers to serve as Commandant or Assistant Commandant of Cadets.--(1) Upon the request of a senior military college, the Secretary of Defense may detail an officer on the active-duty list to serve as Commandant of Cadets at that college or (in the case of a college with an Assistant Commandant of Cadets) detail an officer on the active-duty list to serve as Assistant Commandant of Cadets at that college (but not both).
(2) In the case of an officer detailed as Commandant of Cadets, the officer may, upon the request of the college, be assigned from among the Professor of Military Science, the Professor of Naval Science (if any), and the Professor of Aerospace Science (if any) at that college or may be in addition to any other officer detailed to that college in support of the program.
(3) In the case of an officer detailed as Assistant Commandant of Cadets, the officer may, upon the request of the college, be assigned from among officers otherwise detailed to duty at that college in support of the program or may be in addition to any other officer detailed to that college in support of the program.
(b) Designation of officers as tactical officers.--Upon the request of a senior military college, the Secretary of Defense may authorize officers (other than officers covered by subsection (a)) who are detailed to duty as instructors at that college to act simultaneously as tactical officers (with or without compensation) for the Corps of Cadets at that college.
(c) Detail of officers.--The Secretary of a military department shall designate officers for detail to the program at a senior military college in accordance with criteria provided by the college. An officer may not be detailed to a senior military college without the approval of that college.
(d) Termination or reduction of program prohibited.--The Secretary of Defense and the Secretaries of the military departments may not take or authorize any action to terminate or reduce a unit of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps at a senior military college unless the termination or reduction is specifically requested by the college.
(e) Assignment to active duty.--(1) The Secretary of the Army shall ensure that a graduate of a senior military college who desires to serve as a commissioned officer on active duty upon graduation from the college, who is medically and physically qualified for active duty, and who is recommended for such duty by the professor of military science at the college, shall be assigned to active duty.
(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the Secretary of the Army from requiring a member of the program who graduates from a senior military college to serve on active duty.
(f) Senior military colleges.--The senior military colleges are the following:
(1) Texas A & M University.
(2) Norwich University.
(3) The Virginia Military Institute.
(4) The Citadel.
(5) Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University.
(6) North Georgia College and State University.
(Added Pub.L. 104-106, Div. A, Title V, § 545(a), Feb. 10, 1996, 110 Stat. 317, and amended Pub.L. 105-85, Div. A, Title V, § 544(d), (e), (f), Nov. 18, 1997, 111 Stat. 1745, 1746; Pub.L. 106-65, Div. A, Title V, § 541(c), Oct. 5, 1999, 113 Stat. 607.)
Hi, pennak! Interesting issue. I saw that you started a new thread, so I will post there when I get back to my USCAs next week or so. This is a really interesting issue that could really benefit the candidates around here. Don't know how much law there is on this statute, but my gut tells me that your analysis would nullify the statute.
I think I'm gonna have to have a SERIOUS chat with my CEO about all this "work stuff" interfering with my SAF time!
(sent by iPhone)
Hey patentesq. I agree, very interesting!! I hear you on work. I feel the same way
Good luck to your son; Mine is currently a rook at Norwich, and we're about a month in. Tomorrow is our long-awaited parent/family weekend! Feel free to message me with any questions!
Have a good time. Don't be surprised if sleep followed by chow is the highest thing on your son's checklist!
Reverse that lol, its gonna be chow then sleep. And Saturday will be the first football game the rooks get to experience. Sound Charge!
Game was amazing and so are the NU cadets!
Proud rook mom.
DS Back from Norwich Visit
DS got back from his visit to Norwich U tonight. He loved Norwich. He said all of the people he talked to (students, administration, coaches) were great folks. He said he felt really connected in the short time he was on campus. Time will tell
My son had the same experience a few years ago
It is a very supportive campus. "I will try" is really the theme and practice of the school. They are really good people. My son was so excited after visiting Norwich. Best wishes for your DS.
Norwich is amazing DS is a rook there, message me if you have any questions.
Your DS will ultimately have to make his own decision, but wow does my DS (a Rook) love it at Norwich. Went to Parents Weekend and Norwich obviously wants to put on a show, but what a show it is. The kids are great, the tradition is amazing and we could not be happier. Wishing you and your DS all the best this year with your visits and decision!
I ditto everything hopeful mom said.
Also I'm a proud parent of an AROTC scholarship recipient and now contracted rook! at Norwich.
I think it's safe to say that the cadets who have the most success in their first year at any of the SMCs are the ones who feel a connection with the school when they visit in person. The challenge is when you feel a connection with multiple schools, and then have to try to sort through it.
Once the rigors of the first year begins, they'll probably forget that feeling and question their reasoning daily. But in the end, they know it's where they belong. These things really do defy reason.
Good luck to you and your son!
Jackie M. Briski
VMI Class of 2009
First Class PVT (Ret.)
How right you are! My DS felt a real connection with VMI at his HS visit. That feeling remained strong even after overnighting at most of the other SMCs. He a Rat at VMI now and seems tobbe thriving. Go with your gut.
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