DS Reapplying - CGO/RD info underwhelming

[90action]

DS reapplying after ego crush by both USNA and NROTC - competing all the way to end but TWE on both options (certainly not rockstar status for USNA, but 3Q, 2 noms, 680M/600V, very high GPA, a couple APs but not enough or the hi pri ones, very strong EC national level sport (not recruit level for USNA/DIV 1) and volunteering, along with CVW Offer and visit). Following reapplication guidance in sticky posting, but when contacting RD at CGO they did not provide anything useful more than what we already knew from this forum and the TWE form letter, and confirmed he was overqualified for NAPS/Foundation although he expressly made a point in his interviews and essays to say that he was very interested in those options.
All we got was 'you're application looks very strong, not sure why you didn't get picked up'.

I was under the assumption that we would get more insight than that, specifically on what kept him from breaking out in the national pool, but when they were pressed they gave the 'we can't disclose that information'. They didn't even offer the 'it came down to numbers' line.

Underwhelmed to say the least. Thoughts?

 

[kinnem]

DS reapplying after ego crush by both USNA and NROTC - competing all the way to end but TWE on both options (certainly not rockstar status for USNA, but 3Q, 2 noms, 680M/600V, very high GPA, a couple APs but not enough or the hi pri ones, very strong EC national level sport (not recruit level for USNA/DIV 1) and volunteering, along with CVW Offer and visit). Following reapplication guidance in sticky posting, but when contacting RD at CGO they did not provide anything useful more than what we already knew from this forum and the TWE form letter, and confirmed he was overqualified for NAPS/Foundation although he expressly made a point in his interviews and essays to say that he was very interested in those options.
All we got was 'you're application looks very strong, not sure why you didn't get picked up'.

I was under the assumption that we would get more insight than that, specifically on what kept him from breaking out in the national pool, but when they were pressed they gave the 'we can't disclose that information'. They didn't even offer the 'it came down to numbers' line.

Underwhelmed to say the least. Thoughts?

Well, I didn't see any leadership mentioned, but you probably just left that out. Did he do NROTC his freshman year as a college programmer? Or was that not an option where he attended college?

 

[18'er]

Without getting too personal about location, how competitive a district? From my understanding, once you get to NWL, it's all "rock stars" (to use your term).

 

[Packer]

That 600V SAT score may have been a bit on the low side for the national pool. School selection may have been a factor for NROTC but I think they award the scholarship first and look at the schools second so maybe not.

 

[GoBlue1984]

I'm not sure you will ever know where your DS fell short. I was certain that my DS last year was uber-qualified but neither USNA or NROTC offered him opportunities. He also got the TWE at the end. In contrast he had AROTC and AFROTC scharships and a USMA appointment. Since navy was always his 2nd choice of service branch, it didn't matter to him at all. But his test scores, AP classes and scores, class rank, JROTC, varsity letters, etc. should have made him a shoe-in IMO. I also know a USNA grad whose very qualified son got the TWE in 2012. I think a lot ones down to your nominating slate, and the RD first impression on the file scoring. A poor interview will sink you too.

My advice is for him to keep his options open and if serving in Navy is his passion, to pursue NROTC without a scholarship as Kinnem suggests. Reapply - but it seems that every year the competition keeps getting tougher. That said, the persistence of trying again seems to impress the admissions team. I know i am awfully impressed with those who apply two and three times!

Lastly, remember that OCS is another commissioning route. I would encourage him to not give up just because it isn't going like he expected.

Best Wishes to you and your son.

 

[usna1985]

In some cases, a TWE does come down to a "numbers game" -- more qualified applicants than spots.

I recommend asking the RD/CGO because sometimes there is something that USNA would like to see improved. You might ask your BGO to contact CGO. Sometimes (not always) they might mention something to him/her or he/she might get someone more forthcoming. Even then, sometimes it truly is a matter of lots of uber-qualified candidates and having to make cuts somehow.

The thing to do if he's reapplying is to shore up every area. Consider retaking the SAT/ACT -- scores are good but getting into the 700s would be better. Did he max the CFA? Were his teacher recs stellar? Could his essays be improved Examine each area and see if there could be any improvement, even if tiny.

And, of course, he needs to do really, really well in college courses.

 

[Eagle1820]

Similar response

DS had almost identical scenario but stronger academics plus leadership. Our district is very competitive so hoping for good position in national pool. We did hear that more appointments were given to under represented regions this year. Not sure if that was true. Interestingly the winner from one of his slates was to NAPS, but not an athlete, even though there were many 3Q candidates.

Is there a reason why Admissions won't give specific info to help a candidate improve when reapplying other than generally improving in all areas?

 

[18'er]

DS had almost identical scenario but stronger academics plus leadership. Our district is very competitive so hoping for good position in national pool. We did hear that more appointments were given to under represented regions this year. Not sure if that was true. Interestingly the winner from one of his slates was to NAPS, but not an athlete, even though there were many 3Q candidates.

Is there a reason why Admissions won't give specific info to help a candidate improve when reapplying other than generally improving in all areas?

From what I've learned here, they try not to be too specific so as not to give people a guide on how to game the system.

 

[90action]

Thanks for all the responses, but we got back close to the real topic and answer at the end - CGO/RD have specified limits with what they can/will disclose. I just thought we'd get more than the 'party line'. DS working on trying to get something more from BGO, but not holding my breath.

Kinnem - Leadership average; my understanding is that NROTC college program as freshman = no reapply for another 4 yr, just prior to freshman college year (but still long term option)

18'er - Virginia, Hampton Roads - Competitive, I know..., but a lot of military kids out of here (that may actually have wanted this route for some time, and have some insight as to what they're getting into); Maybe just rockstars pulled from NWL, but I think there are A LOT more factors than that...; not sure everyone wants to game the system, but I just wanted the straight poop (50 SAT points would have made the difference, geographic diversity (geo numbers), or something).

Packer - Verbal low, check, planning SAT retake while in college; party line says school selection shouldn't matter, but several examples of kids who did get it and didn't get it in recent years appear to show otherwise

GoBlue - Copy, a lot of stellar deserving kids not getting the chance unfortunately; interesting comment about RD first impression on scoring; all options on table - he is committed to naval commission

1985 - Thanks, would have liked to get something more from RD but no joy. I would have understood if they did say 'it came down to numbers', but they didn't. I'm sure they can't/won't talk about all the 'other' factors; Improve/College Grades - copy, DS on it

Eagle - Copy, sorry to hear, but I'm sure DS not alone with a lot of stellar kids not getting in; Great closing question


Thanks again.

 

[1964BGO]

I believe the reason for the reticence on the part of RD or CGO relates to the fact that using the Whole Person approach results in several variables being factored into the consideration of each candidate, so there may be no clear cut reason for the selection of one candidate over the others. Also, there is a strong desire not to get into second guessing the decisions of the board, which could become a fulltime distraction from their primary tasks. It may be simply that the board was trying to correct some perceived problem areas in the composition of the Brigade. Understand that the lack of precision is frustrating, but it is best to shift your focus to doing your best in the first semester of college, and ensure that you have course selections as close as possible to what the plebes get in their first semester. Keep in mind that about 25 per cemt of the incoming classes is coming from the post high school sector. Focus upon what is recommended in the sticky and how well you are doing! All you can do is your best. Best wishes.

 

[sandnnw]

Echo 1964.

I have been reading thru these forums for over the past year and watched as my family struggled at times to meet USNA/AFA/ROTC demands for information ad nauseam. Don't get me started on DODMERB. It costed 1XX hours, $1XXX dollars.

I can confidently write that I cannot tell you how/why my son got into the USNA. THE one factor I can point to was the MOC principal nomination. Some of this is just pure, stupid, dumb luck/fate.

For example, he was chosen as the principal "alternate" for the AFA. He knew the principal nominee. I remember hearing stories about her, hemming and hawing about the decision and she chose the state flagship at the last minute. My DS refused to finish his AFA application process, so I assume that #3 either got the nom or it went further down the line. All of this, despite likely stellar credentials of the other kids.

The MOC USNA interview was 15" There were > 100 USNA applicants. So, essentially, this committee looks at all the information and sums it up in about 15+ minutes. My DS was far more confident in regards to his AFA interview. Go figure.

Somehow this process works and has for many decades. Sounds far more complicated than any professional sports draft. I had thought perhaps there was software or "cut offs" that were used by the USNA. I now theorize the other way around, that its far more subjective in regards to the BGO and MOC. Which ever is weighed more heavily, it cannot be an easy decision.

 

[COmom]

Wise advice

I believe the reason for the reticence on the part of RD or CGO relates to the fact that using the Whole Person approach results in several variables being factored into the consideration of each candidate, so there may be no clear cut reason for the selection of one candidate over the others. Also, there is a strong desire not to get into second guessing the decisions of the board, which could become a fulltime distraction from their primary tasks. It may be simply that the board was trying to correct some perceived problem areas in the composition of the Brigade. Understand that the lack of precision is frustrating, but it is best to shift your focus to doing your best in the first semester of college, and ensure that you have course selections as close as possible to what the plebes get in their first semester. Keep in mind that about 25 per cemt of the incoming classes is coming from the post high school sector. Focus upon what is recommended in the sticky and how well you are doing! All you can do is your best. Best wishes.

90action--This summer's BGO training confirms1964BGO's statements. Lots of variables in determining that whole person score, so unless the RD was on the selection board and heard the discussion around an individual, it's hard to know exactly why no appointment was offered in the absence of glaring deficits. Also, news from the NROTC front is that those scholarships are getting increasingly competitive--with the STEM graduation requirements, non STEM majors will be hard pressed to even be considered for one these days.

I'd like to offer encouragement though. This present superintendent looks very favorably on college applicants. Anecdotal evidence from our state for the 2016 class: 4 college applicants that I know of, 3 were re-applicants; 2 attended state colleges, 2 private; all were engineering majors attending very reputable 4 year universities; all did well grade wise and all are currently doing well at USNA. Best of luck!