Dual Citizenship

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by Katienavy?, Nov 15, 2008.

  1. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    Is anybody here in the same boat as I am, with an American and another, foreign, passport?

    Or parents, do any of your sons and daughters at USNA have dual citizenship? What did they have to do - were they allowed to keep theirs?


    I've sent an email to the Admissions Office asking what the deal would be in my case, as I have heard of quite a few examples where students got to keep their passports and attend USNA, such as one New Zealander who's even flying F-18s for the Navy now... although he didn't need security clearance for that... :S
    It would be so amaaaazing if I could keep my other citizenship and still go to the Academy!!!!! Having to give it up is the main reason my parents are so against me going (they are actually reeeally against me going. They don't even know I'm here and researching and have contacted BGO directors or anything. I'm hoping on getting a positive indications from the Admissions office, then I can tell them that not only is this my dream, but that I can even do it while still being Austrian... I might even get some support from them then :redface:)

    Any info/help??!
    Thank yall!!! :biggrin::biggrin::shake:
     
  2. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    This is definitely a question for CGO. If you don't get a reply to your email, call.
     
  3. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    CGO?
    and the reply - how long should I wait for before trying to call?
     
  4. NYCUSNA2012

    NYCUSNA2012 Member

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    I'm dual with Israel and the U.S.

    I was told that I would not have to give up my citizenship, at least not until I committed and signed my 2 for 7s.

    However, when you complete a form for your security clearance dual citizenship will strike up a bell and so will the fact that I'm assuming, most of your family are foreigners, even if they are naturalized Americans.

    Make sure you talk to your admissions officer about this, but from my experience you are allowed to keep both citizenships.
     
  5. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    :jaw: serious?? That would be sooo AMAZING!!!!
     
  6. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    There was a candidate/appointee here last year (or his mom, I can't remember exactly) who had Australian citizenship and I believe he had to renounce and turn in his passport.

    PS - I'm a little confused as to why someone would want to fight in the Armed Forces of and for the United States of America without swearing true allegiance to it by renouncing any and all foreign citizenships. :confused:

    Can you explain a little bit more as to why you want to keep dual citizenship while serving in the US Navy?
     
  7. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    'explanation'

    Swearing true allegiance doesn't mean giving up half of yourself, nor does it mean renouncing a booklet with a picture in it.
    My military allegiance lies with the States (if it didn't, why would I want to go to USNA? Besides, I could go into the Austrian military instead. I chose the US, though), but Austria is a part of me, culturally, mentally and physically.
    I can't just give up a part of me, and especially not if I'm willing to freely take the Oath on I-Day and have already declared myself to military, and politically, ally with the USA. From what I've seen through my research, it is possible that I can retain my other citizenship, because many others have done.
    Therefore the Navy doesn't seem to think that having a second, foreign citizenship matters if their officers (and students) are serving them, and not the other country.
     
  8. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    :wave:

    From the USNA Admissions catalog (2007-2008):

    The possession and the use of a foreign passport in preference to a U.S. passport raises doubts as to whether the individual’s allegiance to the United States is paramount. A security clearance will be denied or revoked unless the foreign passport is surrendered.

    Anyone who possesses a foreign passport must return the passport to the appropriate country’s embassy or consulate, requesting a return endorsement. The endorsement is a prerequisite to any security clearance determination.


    USNA Admissions Catalog (page 29)

    :cool:
     
  9. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    I know I've seen this :frown::frown:

    Then on other the other hand there's NYCUSNA2012, parents who's kids attend USNA and have duals, and then this featured in the USNA Alumni magazine:
    "With dual citizenship in the United States and New Zealand, the 27-year-old former Nelson College student winged his way through four years at the US Naval Academy then two years at navy flight school to pilot Hornet fighter jets." (got this from CC)

    I sent an email detailing everything to the Admissions Office, and am hopeful due to these other people and mitigating circumstances, such as the fact that I only have dual citizenship because my father is Austrian. I was actually born in the States, and so was my mother.

    I'm allowed to hope, right? :smile: :wiggle: :wiggle:
     
  10. MullenLE

    MullenLE Member

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    Page 19 of the USNA catlog requires that you must be a US citizen. U R. Case closed. See how easy it is when you go to the source documents:thumb:
     
  11. MullenLE

    MullenLE Member

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    One would "suspect" that Austria is a country that would NOT be a problem

    CITIZENSHIP

    Applicants for all officer programs must be citizens of the United States (natural born or naturalized). Dual citizenship may or may not be disqualifying depending on the country and/or circumstances. This is governed by the security manual and clearances required. Contact NRC (I added this = Navy Recruiting Command) (Code 3123) for questions. Section 8E-18 in the Officer Recruiting Manual addresses the verification procedures.:thumb:
     
  12. beatkp

    beatkp Member

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    Katienavy,
    My son has dual citizenship (German) and is in his second year at the CGA. The Security Clearance Investigator who screened him mentioned that my son has until his twenty second birthday to choose citizenship for what it’s worth. At no time during interview he was told to renounce his foreign citizenship to attend the academy. Rightfully so my son didn’t elaborate any further details of what was specifically asked by investigator.


    From past experience, Security Clearance interviews is a chance for the interviewer to determine any anything that is detrimental or may compromise whatever level clearance you may be in for, such as embezzlement , criminal activities, lying on clearance application, American loyalty, etc. . Also some circumstances derived from an interview may be mitigated instances such as misdemeanors, past money problems or in your case” dual citizenship”.


    Being born abroad or having a foreign parent is not a problem for one to get a clearance, but since there is so many different levels of security clearances: holding or applying for a foreign passport, benefiting from foreign government programs or any sign of one having dual loyalties to two countries might be a problem. Believe me, there are no clear cut set of circumstances for obtaining ones clearance, it will not be posted on the internet or may be read in a book.


    So the question is if told by the US Navy to return your passport to Austria or to renounce your dual citizenship would you? If not I would suggest not to apply for a US military service requiring a clearance. Remember returning a little booklet with your picture in it doesn’t stop you from being proud of having a Austrian Heritage.
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    A phrase like "may or may not" hardly seems like "case closed." :wink:

    I suggest she contact the USNA Blue & Gold coordinator for US Citizens overseas:

    U. S. CITIZENS OVERSEAS
    Sue Loustaunau
    Phone: Home 207-326-0574
    E-mail: sjlous@adelphia.net
    All foreign country codes
     
  14. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    This will be a "case by case" basis.

    I flew with a guy that was a dual with Australia. It wasn't a problem UNTIL he went for his Top Secret clearance.

    Then it was a HUGE problem and his clearance was denied and he was grounded, removed from access to ALL classified materials, etc.

    He was in this status for almost 3 years. He ultimately renounced his Australian citizenship.

    I can't speak for the Navy...but in the AF, pretty much everyone now has a TS clearance and many are TS/SCI. It's just the nature of our business.

    The F-18 driver...he has to have a TS clearance so it appears that it wasn't a problem for him. So as I say, this is a "case by case" apparently.

    But let NOTHING deter you! Press ahead, ask ALL the questions you can; hit up your B&G officer, the USNA, etc.

    Steve
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2008
  15. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    beatkp-

    A heartfelt Danke :biggrin:

    Was there a specific reason why 22? Is that his age when he has to decide his 2 for 7s?
    Well then, if by then I can't part with my Austrian passport, I shall choose a career that doesn't need clearance :smile:

    I'll work something out! THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!!
    ALL OF YOU!

    ps- does clearance level depend on how well you did at the Academy?
     
  16. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    Thanks Luigi!

    I already contacted LT Daniel Doyle (he's the Regional Director for international students.... parkhurst89 said he will point me in the right direction. Should I email her too while I wait for his reply?)

    flieger83 - thanks for your personal input! Would your mate have skipped those 3yrs if he'd given his Aussie passport up beforehand?
    And... what's a SCI clearance? :redface:
    You know what though, I don't think the NZ had any clearance whatsoever! At least, that's what I have in my memory

    I shall! :biggrin::thumb:
     
  17. beatkp

    beatkp Member

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    To be honest, I don't know why the investigator told him about the 22 yo part. Maybe to see what his reaction would be.


    "ps- does clearance level depend on how well you did at the Academy?"


    No, the Security Clearance level depends on what classes you take, what sensitive material you will have access to and what jobs you have post Academy. You will be limited in your career in not being able to obtain any specific level clearance.
     
  18. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

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    What classes I take? As in what I major in?
    What major would give me the highest clearance level? (I'm not looking for that, jw.)
    Oh and can one double major???

    OK, I shall be thinking bout that all :smile: Thanks for the help! :thumb:
     
  19. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Dual Citizenship is a lot like Dodmerb - there are a lot of "it depends"
    Do not look at one person's case and try to extrapolate that to your own.

    There are a lot of circumstances -
    1. One can have dual citizenship and not have a foreign passport. Citizenship is granted by each country according to their laws. Therefore one can be considered a citizen by one country even if you don't have a passport or consider yourself a citizen.
    2. If you are in possession of two passports expect to give up the foreign one. There are many reasons for this - the military doesn't want you getting in trouble if you have to travel there on US business.
    3. Austrailia - This country has a law that citizens must vote. If you live abroad and do not vote you could be arrested if you returned to Austrailia. Good idea just to renounce the citizenship and not be bothered voting in a foreign country.
    4. Israel - very complicated citizenship. They have a "right of return" and if you have ever exercised it you may have to renounce your citizenship. You can also be considered a citizen by Israel and never have stepped foot in the country.

    I am not a lawyer - so take this for what it's worth. Probably nothing.

    Keep in mind - being an enlisted member of the military does not require one to be a US Citizen but being a Commissioned Officer requires you to be a citizen and uphold the constitution. Be prepared to demonstrate that your dual citizenship is not incompatible with this requirement.
     
  20. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Follow-up

    Hi!

    Okay...

    My "aussie pilot" gave up his Aussie passport to get his clearance; had he done so prior to the clearanc coming up, he'd never have had a problem.

    The clearance TS/SCI is: Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmentalized Information. This definition is readily available on the 'net so I'm not telling you anything "special." It's just a level of top secret classification to limit possibility of compromise.

    Again, I think anything is "possible" but the odds are, I'm thinking, that if/when you go for a clearance in the navy or any other service, this will surface...

    Until then (and even then): FLANK SPEED!
     

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