Dual Citizenship

Just a Mom

Voting is not a problem for Australians abroad. Best friend is from Melbourne and she has always voted here in the states since moving here 15 years ago. :smile:
 
That was not my point, NT.
Austrailia has compulsory voting. Therefore, unless you renounce your Australian citizenship you MUST vote. Even if you live abroad.
Since as a dual citizen you are participating in elections for two separate countries - the US Gov't will probably wonder to whom you hold true allegiance.

This is different that being a dual citizen by birth, never having stepped foot in the country or held a foreign passport.
I was trying to demonstrate why each situation and each country is a different scenario.
 
Just_A_Mom said:
Be prepared to demonstrate that your dual citizenship is not incompatible with this requirement.
Click to expand...

Already fighting for that, with "flank speed" :biggrin::smile:

Oh and btw, i'm AUSTRIAN (not Australian...no kangaroos here ^^) so the having-to-vote-law doesn't apply in my case at least. But it's definitely good to know! I shall check what the Austrian laws are, but as far as I know we don't have one of those laws...
Then again... I did vote in the elections we had in mid-September (if anyone here reads The Economist, we were pretty much conveyed as a 'fascist' country b/c suddenly a lot of people voted far right out of protest for the Great Coalition, that flopped... and is now being revised... tzz :( )... I voted b/c they changed the laws that 16yo may vote, so it was a BIG deal that I could vote 'underage' (=under 18) and my age group was greatly encouraged to... But that still doesn't mean I'm military alligned with the Austrians. If I were, I'd go into the Austrian army! Simple!

Just_A_Mom said:
This is different that being a dual citizen by birth, never having stepped foot in the country or held a foreign passport.
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I only have the Austrian citizenship (and passport which I've used a lot to travel into the EU of course, since it's easier) because my dad is Austrian... my family had to actually even fight for the Austrians to allow me to have their passport AND the American one... make a difference?
 
Three issues here. First, the easy one . . . take Parkhurt89's advice and get the correct information from the source, which is CGO as a starting point. However, even then, I suggest you do the best you can to confirm what you're told with official sources (i.e., laws, regulations) by asking CGO the legal basis for their position. Not saying CGO will be wrong -- they're likely to be 100% correct b/c I'm sure you're not the first person to have this issue. However, I would not want to base my future on what an O-3 verbally tells me.

Second issue -- is there a reason you want to retain your non-US citizenship? If you plan to join the US military and commit potentially 24+ years of your life to it, why do you want to retain citizenship from another country?

Third issue -- lack of parental support for attending USNA. Yes, some mids successfully navigate USNA dragging their parents kicking & screaming behind them. However, it's also true that mids are typcially more successful at USNA if they have a supportive family. Or at least a family that isn't in strong opposition.

I suggest you consider why your parents are against your attending USNA -- is it because it's a military school and they fear for your safety? Is it because they have a citizenship issue? Something else? (none of my business, BTW --just suggesting you think about the reasons behind their views and whether their current opinion could change).

If they are so opposed as to not even wanting you to explore the idea, such as by posting on these boards, I fear you will have a very long & difficult road. Not saying you can't do it but, again, suggest you have a frank discussion with your parents about this issue. If you're truly committed, they'll find out eventually and it's better to air the issue now than later.
 
What IS CGO?? Haha, that term is still quiiite mysterious for me :wink: And O-3?
boy... :smile:

#2: I feel it's a part of me, I would miss it (not rational I know, but emotional). Plus I've spent my life being told of aaaall the benefits of having an USA and an EU passport.

#3: It's the citizenship. But from what I've seen so far (not just here), there seems to be a lot I can do to retain the foreign citizenship as well. Once I've assured them of it, they'll be fully on board...eventually. I'll make them (<--not meant meanly!). There's a lot of things I can if they just don't want to see that this is what I want to do, the merits of the school, etc. (Such as I'll be 18, they've always told me to do what I really want to do, ...).
Hey! I managed to convince my Grandmama! For what it's worth :wink: :biggrin:

Frank discussion is coming up very soon - I'm not putting it off. I just want a more official answer as proof. (I'll be praying)
 
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I only have the Austrian citizenship (and passport which I've used a lot to travel into the EU of course, since it's easier) because my dad is Austrian... my family had to actually even fight for the Austrians to allow me to have their passport AND the American one... make a difference?
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I know you are Austrian (someone had used Australian as an example).

CGO = Candidate Guidance Office. Those in the USNA Admissions office are the ones who can help you sort it out and tell you what to expect.
I am with USNA1985 and Parkhurst on this one.

Understand - being in possession of two passports is probably incompatible with being a military officer.
Perhaps someone has first hand experience here.....
 
OK I thought so, I just didn't want anybody to spend time researching that for me :smile:

Ohhhh that makes sense! So the email I sent to Admissions was sent to CGO? Goody! :biggrin:

Well, it sure is for my parents! It seems that a lot have (personal experience) - some on this forum, some from what I've read on CC when I googled this :cool:
My college counsellor at school, who's dad was someone high-ranking enough in the Navy to get his son (my counsellor) into USNA on full scholarship, seems to think it will be OK - at least for the Academy.

I'll see what the replies are, and then I'll have to work it out from there (I hope they come soon! I sent the emails off on Friday - when can I reasonably expect an answer [seeing as they're still processing c/o 2013]?)

Katie!
 
They will likely answer you within a timely manner. BTW...everyone who attends USNA is on a "full scholarship."
 
I know I didn't get that either, but I did see something on a Plebe help-site about needing to have $2200 on I-Day?! For haircuts or something like that... but I thought that was included? Like everything?
 
^^^^

In the past, students were asked to bring a check for a certain amount of money to I-Day (Induction Day) to help defray the cost of uniforms, books, etc. Last year (or maybe the year before), USNA dropped this requirement. Now, all the money is taken from what you earn over the course of your four years

In the "old days," you got a nice check (several thousand dollars) upon graduation, which represented what was left in your account (amount you earned less what you paid for uniforms, books, etc.). Thus, in some ways, you got back more or less what you (or your parents) put in. I would guess those checks are much smaller now because you have more to pay off.

Finally, as to the citizenship issues, you need to think very carefully if a career in the US military is right for you. If your loyalty truly is torn between two countries, you may have some ethical dilemmas to face going forward.
 
My loyalty is N.O.T torn between two countries!!!!!!!!!!!

I am loyal to the USA, and I love Austria.
Since when do loyalty and love equate???



(not meant disrespectfully, of course)
 
Katienavy? said:
My loyalty is N.O.T torn between two countries!!!!!!!!!!!

I am loyal to the USA, and I love Austria.
Since when do loyalty and love equate???



(not meant disrespectfully, of course)
Click to expand...

Fast forward to 2028...

To further the strategic interests of the United States, you are ordered to bomb Vienna (or Graz or Salzburg, etc) knowing that many many Austrians will be killed.

What would you do?

If there is any hesitation in your answer other than "bombs away" than you might want to reconsider.
 
Wasn't planning on flying :wink:
No but seriously, how can anyone think that giving up a booklet is going to change my views of Austria - I would still hesitate, without or without a picture in a booklet with German all over it.
Answer: I would hesitate a split second (before I go on the mission), but I would do it. An order is an order.
 
So apparently it's pretty much cleared:


One CAN KEEP CITIZENSHIP, but the passport must be renounced, turned in or destroyed!!!
In addition, one has to sign a form saying one is willing to give up the foreign citizenship.
​

[EDIT]: Ok, so it is a slightly more detailed story, but that above is the basics (in my case, so I'm assuming in all).


Hope this helps anyone in the same position as me!!
 
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Katia,

my son is in a similar situation as you, he has US and German citizenship.

While the US might not pose a problem for him, Germany (or in your case Austria) might. German law states that a German citizen who voluntarily serves in a foreign army (over and above compulsory military service) may lose German citizenship unless permission is obtained from the German government.

From what I found out Austrian citizenship is automatically lost by serving in a foreign army.

BTW, I lost my German citizenship because at the time I was naturalized it was the law (it changed the following year). But in my heart I only lost the passport, I will always be a German. And there is absolutely conflict with my love for the US. It's like the way you love your children: having a second one doesn't make you love the first one any less. However, in the case of my son, in case of a conflict his allegience will be with the United States, 100%. Mine too.
 
I don't think the academy will have major issues with your citizenship with an ally nation. When I was in, we had several Marines that had dual citizenship. One of them I remember best was Bolivian.

Here is where it did become an issue. Getting security clearances. You likely won't get one, and if you do, it'll be limited to classified. You'll likely not be able to get secret or top secret while holding dual citizenship. I never met anyone in my years of service with Dual Citizenship and a clearance. When I got my clearance, they went as far back as my third grade teacher during the interview processes. My guess is, if I had dual Citizenship, they wouldn't have interviewed anyone, I would have never been considered.

Also, as Pachrian said, you'll likley loose your other citizenship once you enlist into a military, not of that citizenship.
 
How do you go about surrendering your other citizenship. I can't wait to let go of my Korean citizenship.. I'm not much of a patriot.. to the Koreans that is. (And that's south.. for anybody who thought otherwise)
 
usna1985 said:
Three issues here. First, the easy one . . . take Parkhurt89's advice and get the correct information from the source, which is CGO as a starting point. However, even then, I suggest you do the best you can to confirm what you're told with official sources (i.e., laws, regulations) by asking CGO the legal basis for their position. Not saying CGO will be wrong -- they're likely to be 100% correct b/c I'm sure you're not the first person to have this issue. However, I would not want to base my future on what an O-3 verbally tells me.

Second issue -- is there a reason you want to retain your non-US citizenship? If you plan to join the US military and commit potentially 24+ years of your life to it, why do you want to retain citizenship from another country?

Third issue -- lack of parental support for attending USNA. Yes, some mids successfully navigate USNA dragging their parents kicking & screaming behind them. However, it's also true that mids are typcially more successful at USNA if they have a supportive family. Or at least a family that isn't in strong opposition.

I suggest you consider why your parents are against your attending USNA -- is it because it's a military school and they fear for your safety? Is it because they have a citizenship issue? Something else? (none of my business, BTW --just suggesting you think about the reasons behind their views and whether their current opinion could change).

If they are so opposed as to not even wanting you to explore the idea, such as by posting on these boards, I fear you will have a very long & difficult road. Not saying you can't do it but, again, suggest you have a frank discussion with your parents about this issue. If you're truly committed, they'll find out eventually and it's better to air the issue now than later.
Click to expand...

Well, with the US economy being the way it is, it would not be unwise for those who have dual citizenship with another OECD country such as Canada to hold onto it dearly.
 
hyb128 said:
How do you go about surrendering your other citizenship. I can't wait to let go of my Korean citizenship.. I'm not much of a patriot.. to the Koreans that is. (And that's south.. for anybody who thought otherwise)
Click to expand...

With South Korea, you would have to serve in your other country's army also. And imagine when you are training with US soldiers there, and the US NCO comes to learn that you are actually a US commissioned officer but an enlisted solider in Korea. You would put him in a pickle. It would be hard for the NCO to forget that you are an officer, and get all weird. I think in your situation, it would be a real problem if you kept your dual citizenship and if Korea made you enlist, when you are already a CO
 
Was that a serious comment? Given the current economic situation, I think I would still rather be an American citizen than a Canadian. If you are serious about being in the US military, you should have no reservations about dropping your allegiance to whatever sad country is dragging you down. If this can't be done, than don't sign up. Pretty simple.
 
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