early sept PMS interview good enough for the first selection board?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by educateme, Aug 30, 2010.

  1. educateme

    educateme Member

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    My son's first choice school has a new PMS. He arrived last friday. He really would like to interview with him. That's why he waited till now, rather than interviewing with a PMS in a nearby college. The battalion officer suggested that my son call this week to see when he can have a PMS interview.

    Let's say, the new PMS will be ready to interview my son by Sept 10. Is this still good enough to have everything ready for him to be considered for the first selection board meeting, which, presumably, will take place toward the end of Sept or early Oct.
     
  2. educateme

    educateme Member

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    Clarification: My son is applying to ARMY ROTC.
     
  3. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Here are the dates for the Army ROTC scholarship boards this year. If he gets his intervier in eraaly September he should be on track with no problem. He is wiser to interview at his school of choice also.

    http://goldenknightbattalion.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/2010-2011-scholarship-board-dates/

    Once the interview is done keep checking in the system and bug the enrollment officer until you know that the interview has been posted.

    good luck
     
  4. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Thanks Clarkson- I'm cribbing from your site and posting those dates as this question gets asked frequently:

    2010-2011 scholarship board dates
    Posted on August 9, 2010 by goldenknightbattalion
    I finally found the dates for the upcoming year posted…here’s what they look like:

    Deadline for documents for the first board 18 October, 2010
    FIRST HIGH SCHOOL SELECTION BOARD 25 October, 2010
    Deadline for documents for the second board 27 December, 2010
    SECOND HIGH SCHOOL SELECTION BOARD 4 January, 2011
    Final high school selection board deadline for documents 28 February, 2011
    FINAL (THIRD) HIGH SCHOOL SELECTION BOARD
    Only three boards this year!
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    WOW, only 3 boards?!

    This is not going to be pretty!
     
  6. DougBetsy

    DougBetsy Member

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    Holy cow. :eek:
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Can anyone say pipeline closed? If the Army follows the AF this may be a sign of some lean yrs ahead for officers coming out of the pipeline. 2 yrs ago the AFROTC board did this, it was followed with no OCS for this past yr and a RIF for some AD officers.

    Many people have felt this was inevitable because as the troops draw down from Iraq the Army will be too heavy in manpower requirements. This is compounded with the fact that the economy is in such dire straights officers are not separating from the Army due to lack of employment opportunities. Put all of these factors together and you have the perfect storm. The only way to make it not turn into a hurricane is by closing down the pipeline.
     
  8. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Fewer boards doesn't necessarily mean fewer scholarships. My son received the following unsolicited (not a college that he was considering or that he requested info) email today from a Major in a neighboring state's public college. Evidently they still have scholarships available from the current year that they are actively attempting to award.

    "..Are you interested in transferring in as a; freshman, sophomore, junior, senior? Are you still in High School? Please contact me at your earliest convenience to set up a time so we can meet. XXXXXX ROTC still has scholarships available for this academic year and upcoming! You can enroll in Army ROTC without cost or obligation. Army ROTC consists of a class that meets once or twice a week, the Leadership Lab and physical fitness training that meets three times a week. Please keep in touch and let me know how I can assist you further. Best wishes in achieving your academic and professional goals."
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Aglages,

    I kind of feel like that postcard is a bs mass mailer because of one reason.

    FY 2010 closes in 30 days. That means the scholarships they are speaking about must be processed and approved in a few short weeks. We both know Dodmerb can take a heck of a lot longer time to get in, get examined, get reviewed and approved than 4 weeks. I would be leary of any college ROTC det that guarantees in Sept a scholarship for FY 2010.

    I have a funny feeling that this was used like a fishing lure, they are going to throw it out there in hopes they got you snagged. Recruiters have quotas to make for review purposes.

    Our DS's friend got an AROTC scholarship late a few yrs ago, but he got it in July, not 1 Sept.
     
  10. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Army ROTC Budget:

    ESTIMATE FY 2011 $138,731
    ESTIMATE FY 2010 $143,586
    ACTUAL FY 2009 $97,501
    *2011 (2) Program decrease due to a reduction in the number of anticipated Senior ROTC participants: -$6.3 million

    US Army 2011 budget

    $51 million in scholarships 2010
    $44.70 million in scholarships 2011
    2579 four yr scholarships 2010

    Assuming ratios of 2,3,4 yr scholarships stays constant
    and not including costs of college going up...

    2260 4 year scholarships 2011 (319 less than 2010)
    about a +/- 15% reduction in 4 yr scholarships in 2011?

    (math is not my strong point)
     
  11. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Pima - hopefully you are correct. Considering how many applicants applied and did not receive AROTC scholarships this past year, I sure don't like to think that there are scholarships that may have gone unclaimed.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Curiosity here...is the AROTC following the AFROTC footsteps and releasing POCs? The AFROTC program this yr separated cadets only a few short months prior to graduation. They allowed them to walk with no time owed...of course the AF is also going through a RIF now, thus, by letting them walk they saved money in the long run, especially since that scholarship money was already water under the bridge!


    This will be interesting to see how they divvy the money up...will they give less Type 1 and more Type 7? They can have the same amount of ROTC cadets if they give more Type 7, but if they keep their ratios, you are correct there will be less scholarships offered to the incoming class yr.

    The next question would be are they going to give out more type 2 scholarships to cadets that are already enrolled in AROTC instead of type 7s or are they going to keep the same balance?

    With our economy in the shape it is in, ROTC applications have risen because of the cost of college, I don't see this number dropping any time soon. Additionally, cadets that were hesitant about going ROTC because of Iraq and Afghanistan may now throw their hat in thinking by the time they graduate we will be gone, thus, again increasing the number of applicants.

    I think for a better guesstimate on what the pipeline looks like for AROTC, you need to look at OCS/OTS. If that pipeline is closing down, than you can take the leap that the strategic planners of Army manpower has decided that they are starting to get top heavy in officer to enlisted ratios and before they do a RIF, they will start from the ROTC side.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  13. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post, but aren't all the Army ROTC scholarships the equivalent (in dollars) of an AFROTC Type 1 scholarship?
     
  14. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    I don't think 3 boards will be a bad thing. It will just cause the applicants to have to get their stuff in on time. It will also allow for the winners to nail down their schools and accept before the next board is held. Overlap this year caused some confusion. We have until December to give away the rest of the scholarships from this year, since unclaimed national board scholarships reverted to campus based scholarships, and some of us may be holding boards on campus to give away the last of the allocated funds. There are still some scholarships that may not be claimed (waiting until the offer to initiate the DODMERB process definitely had consequences). Don't see the Army ever following in AF footsteps, we are not cutting any of the scholarship winners, and all our scholarships are still full cost. Our obligation to fill the ranks of the Active, Guard, and Reserve forces will keep us busy and giving away plenty of scholarships....business is still good for Army, we need lots of LT's.
     
  15. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Correcting Myself:
    I now think the key words above is the "number of anticipated Senior ROTC participants"
    looking at the actual numbers of MS-1 scholarships in the FY2011 budget - that number remains constant (same as FY2010) at 6,292

    So I guess(?) the previous estimate was for an increase in scholarships , and now 2011 is staying the same as 2010.
    Government speak, cutting an projected increase is equal to a reduction :shake:
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  16. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    I agree that the 3 boards will not be a bad thing. The early board still forces candidates to accept a scholarship before an admissions decision, but the December board should allow most EA decisions to be known before a scholarship decision need be made.

    I can see (my conjecture only, perhaps clarksonarmy can provide more insight?) more 3-year AD scholarships being awarded (to cut down that expenditure), which probably is a good thing for the Army, but perhaps a problem for families struggling to pay for school. By the second year, many students get weeded out either academically, or decide ROTC and a military career is not in their interest, so Uncle Sam would not pay for those who wash out up front.

    The commissioning routes combined need to adjust their throughput to supply the number of entry level officers to the projected needs of the military at the time those candidates graduate. Clearly we will be needing fewer of these officers as we wind down operations in Iraq. Last year we ramped down about 40% in AROTC scholarships, if the numbers I've seen are correct. West Point's class is roughly the same as years past. I don't know about how OCS or other entry points (AF to Army, etc) have changed, so I can't say whether or not the ROTC program scholarship count will be shrunk any further. I would ventrue to say that there will not be more scholarships this year than last, though.
     
  17. mariner116

    mariner116 Member

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    I'm curious, what happens if by the time the class of 2014 graduates that the Army does not need or want the entire class? Will they simply "RIF" some cadets and release them from their obligation in order to get to a number of new commissioned officers that meets their needs?
     
  18. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    They will...I think that's what Pima was referring to. Senior's, getting ready to graduate being told sorry we don't have a job for you, have a nice life. No payback, but have to find a real job. I don't see it happening any time soon on the Army side. It is happening on the Air Force side. Still a great need for junior officers in the Army.

    Goaliedad is right on about 3 year ADs...we haven't given one of those in 4 years. We have 3 this year. Not the best solution, but paying for one year of college sure beats paying for 4. Always have to do the best with what you've got.
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Clark,

    You are right that is exactly what the AFROTC is going through currently. The hard thing about this is they may not tell you to a month or two out from graduation. This is difficult because as a cadet you expected to have a job, and now you are behind the 8 ball regarding the job interviewing process. This occurred to a cadet in our sons AFROTC det. He had his career field, assignment and report NLT date to be told, thanks, but at this time we will not be requiring your assistance.

    The one thing that ROTC cadets need to COMPREHEND, just because you got a Scholarship, it doesn't make you safe. Just because the min gpa for the scholarship is 2.5, doesn't mean they won't cut you. The AF is cutting ROTC cadets with gpa's that meet AND surpass the min. As a C200 you will meet a national ROTC board (at least AF does this) for summer FT., at our DS's school the min gpa marker was 3.2 or 3.4, I can't remember, but obviously much higher than the 2.5 to keep the scholarship. Additionally at his det, one girl was released as a C100 with a 3.0. You need to get good grades throughout your ROTC career for the scholarship, but also to vie for the "primo" career fields. It isn't over until you take your oath as a 2nd Lt.

    I would think if the Army gave out 3 yr scholarships this yr for the 1st time in 4 yrs., that means manpower has decided the Class of 13 is short on numbers, which would be a good sign for 14.

    If you dig through the bowels of this site, you can see the writing was on the wall regarding AF RIFS way before they announced the RIF.
    1. Class of 14 had a lot more candidates that were not selected for a scholarship then prior yrs, even though they had strong stats.
    2. 1st time I ever heard about a 2K/yr scholarship,
    3. AFA grads are being delayed for UPT up to 9 mos. Traditionally, they leave for UPT within a few months. Pipeline slowing down. ROTC cadets do not attend schools until all of the AFA grads have gone. Some AFROTC cadets are now waiting 15 mos for UPT.
    4. AFA grads at UPT that wash out were given the option to walk, and not converted to other career fields. Traditionally, this occurs for ROTC and OCS grads, but not AFA.
    5. Summer FT for class of 12, had the lowest selection rate on record.
    6. Class of 10 were allowed to walk away with no penalty.
    7. O4/O5 promotion boards sped up, while the rate decreased.


    All of these things became public knowledge if you are in tune to the AF before the AF announced a RIF. One or two alone, no biggie, but all of them placed together is a different story.

    A couple of things I would like to point out from a historical POV regarding RIFS.

    1. The AF 92 RIF occurred @ 1 yr prior to the Army announcement of their RIF.

    This occurred because the AF's mission in Gulf 1 ended earlier than the Army, thus they had a ton of airmen coming home and no place to put them. A yr later the Army was faced with the same dilemma.

    Right now the AF mission for the sandbox has been greatly reduced, but the Army's still there in large numbers. If we are gone out of Iraq and Afghanistan come next summer AND unemployment is still at 10%, it will not be a shock and awe to me that the Army will do a RIF. I say this because the Army can find themselves with too many members at each post.

    2. There has always been a retention/recruitment rate for the military that is tied to the economy...low unemployment, low retention rate...high unemployment, high retention rate. A paycheck is better than no paycheck.

    3. SOD Gates has stated he intends to slash the DOD budget, everything falls downhill. If he intends to cut programs or personnel, that means at the Pentagon or JCom, there will be less need for some military members. Less need for them means they need to be placed somewhere else, add this in with returning troops and you now have an abundance of stateside personnel with no job, unless you consider twiddling your fingers a job. To many twiddlers and you will need to address how to reduce the members within the service...RIF or voluntary separation.

    None of us here are psychic, and none of us work at the Pentagon for Gates or man power. The most important thing that every ROTC scholarship candidate should understand is you need to keep up your grades even at college. 2.5 might be the min for the gpa, but when you are a C300 and have to meet the board for your career, you don't want to be at the min.

    Not trying to be Janie Raincloud, just trying to say to ROTC scholarship recipients DON'T REST ON YOUR LAURELS. DON'T ASSUME ANYTHING! 5 yrs ago, nobody would have assumed unemployment would be at 10%. 2 yrs ago nobody would have assumed that the dow would be a 10K (it was @12K) for almost 18 months...remember some candidates are going ROTC because the folks can't afford college. All of these factors play into the equation.

    Best of luck
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  20. educateme

    educateme Member

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    Pima,

    I can't thank you enough for your thoughtful post. I am sure I am not the only parent on this board who thinks so.

    My son is now applying for the ROTC scholarship. Your post should be a must read item for everybody who is in the ROTC program or is applying to one.

    Thanks
     

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