ECP questions

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Fergusnr, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Fergusnr

    Fergusnr Member

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    Is it possible to change an Early Commissioning Program offer to a 3 or 4 year offer?

    I am still waiting to hear from USMA, if I accept this may I still accept a USMA appointment? If I do not receive an appointment this year would I be eligible to apply to USMA again next year if I accept the ECP offer? Would a JMC strengthen my USMA application compared to a normal university?

    How do most universities view ECP? Would it be difficult to attend a prestigious school for the last two years?

    I don't know very much about the program so I want to find as much out as possible.

    Thank you for all of the help.
     
  2. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    No, once you sign the ECP scholarship you are locked into it and are removed from consideration of the National ROTC scholarships.
    You can apply and if accepted go to USMA and it will be voided.

    Some JMC's are actually self prep schools for USMA

    As far as prestigious are you referring to academics or ROTC programs?

    My DS went thru the ECP program, depending on what you want to major in will determine how well your academics transfer to your follow on school.

    Quite a few of the cadets in his class went on to SMC's and some before him graduated with honors from those follow on schools, so a lot depends on the student, not necessarily the school.

    As far as how you are looked at or perceived at your follow on school, it varies. You are an officer in the national guard or reserves at your follow on school, you are not a cadet. Some schools require a lot of interaction, some none at all other than with the HR person to make sure your paperwork gets processed.
    My DS as more of a personal relationship with the PMS at his follow up school. Officer to officer. The PMS will shoot him an email to see how things are going or talk while walking across campus. Not so sure they have sat and drank a couple of beers together away from campus.
    You will find the perception issue more with the guard unit you drill with as you will be a 20 yr old in charge of a senior NCO that has been in the guards longer than you have been alive. And a lot of the officers in the guard units go thru OCS instead of ROTC or are prior enlisted.

    IF YOU ARE WANTING A GUARANTEED SHOT AT ACTIVE DUTY DO NOT ACCEPT THE ECP SCHOLARSHIP.
    Use the search function and you will find some threads about this.
     
  3. Fergusnr

    Fergusnr Member

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    Since my goal is to receive an appointment to USMA, would it be wise to reach out to admissions to see what their opinion is in the case that I do not receive an appointment?
     
  4. KeyzCat

    KeyzCat Member

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    When my DS was at start of his college search he was mostly focused on the ECP option. His school of choice at the time was MMI. When in AL looking at colleges he happened to go to AUM his requitment officer said that since the ECP students were not doing well. They have completely revamped their program. They require ECP students to attend PT and work with the unit. But you also have to be interviewed and approved by the PMS.
     
  5. 1347eagle

    1347eagle New Member

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    Does the ECP or Ike Skelton scholarship include room and board at the JMC?

    Should I come to the conclusion that my DS stats are to low to receive a 3 or 4 year scholarship on the third board?

    Just wondering...

    We will be reaching out to Roo at the university where DS did interview.

    Thank you for your help. It is nice to know we have each other.
     
  6. Fergusnr

    Fergusnr Member

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    I received the Ike Skelton scholarship as well. One of the JMCs sent me a ton of info on it. The scholarship does not cover room and board but some of the JMCs will cover it for you.
     
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  7. NavyMom24

    NavyMom24 Member

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    I feel the need to jump in here on the Early Commissioning Scholarship. My daughter has accepted the scholarship and will be reporting to MMI on June 22 for pre CIET training, then CIET at Fort Knox in July.

    I've read several people on this board say things to the effect of, "if you want active duty, don't take the ECP scholarship." I think that is really bad advice for a few reasons.

    First, the only students guaranteed active duty upon graduation are those at a Service Academy. That means that if you don't get into a SA and you opt to go ROTC on your route to commission, you are not actually guaranteed active duty. Active duty is based on the need of the Army from year to year, and if you look at the fact that our military has been seriously cut back over the past several years, the only conclusion to draw upon is that they are due for a beefing up.
    Sometime over the next four years, the Army is going to start building up again. It just seems inevitable. This will make it easier for ECP cadets to go vie for active duty.

    If you do take an ECP scholarship and want to go active duty, there is a process to go through. You are guaranteed a commission in either the Guard or the Reserves, but not Active Duty. However if you have worked hard and achieved good grades and good standing in your unit that doesn't mean you can't/won't be able to apply for active duty.

    My daughter very much wanted to attend a SA. Although she has a nomination to USNA, she believes her SAT scores are too low to secure her an appointment and for her the ultimate goal is to be an officer. Of all the ROTC units she visited, the one at MMI appeals to her the most. She loves the idea of being at a military college specifically, isn't really looking for the regular college experience, and sort of feels that going JMC then SMC is the next best thing to attending an academy.

    So much of this decision is based on what kind of kid you have, what his/her goals are, etc. This process of applying for SA's and ROTC programs has done a lot of shaping of my daughter and she is excited about finishing high school and taking the next step.
     
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  8. NavyMom24

    NavyMom24 Member

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    I believe New Mexico Military Institute and the JMC in Missouri (Wentworth?) will provide room and board as an inducement to their ECP scholarship cadets.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    NavyMom24,

    While you are correct that Active Duty through traditional Army ROTC is not guaranteed, the chances are a lot higher. Over the past few years 78% +- of the cadets that wanted Active have received Active. The numbers are lower through ECP. The advice you have read on this board comes from cadets that were told they would be able to apply for Active when they signed up and accepted the ECP Scholarship only to be told they would not be released to AD when it came time to commission.

    ECP is very fluid, what prospective cadets are told today is not always what happens in two years. Despite doing well and scoring high, many ECP cadets were not allowed to commission Active. With ECP sometimes getting Active is out of the cadets control.

    The advice is actually good but could be worded differently, If a cadet wants a "better" chance of receiving Active Duty then traditional Army ROTC is a better path, the system is not as fluid as it is with ECP.
     
  10. 1347eagle

    1347eagle New Member

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    Thank you for your replies and information. Lots to think about. My DS is still thinking it over. The feedback is very helpful.

    Navy Mom24 has a point about active duty not being guaranteed for anyone except the graduates of the SMC.

    Jcleppe has a good point that it will certainly be harder for a JMC graduate to get active duty.

    So, it is best to know what end game you want.

    So far a few of the JMC have offered paid room and board to my DS. I think that is very generous.

    My DS wants to study engineering so that time frame wise completing a bachelor's degree in 36 months presents another challenge.

    Still more to think of. We have a little time before we have to give our response.
     
  11. KeyzCat

    KeyzCat Member

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    Since SMC are also guaranteed to go active if want to would that adjust the ECP cadet that then transferred to a SMC as Navy Mom says is her DD plan. That was one of DS's initial plans till told that several schools had issues with ECP students not doing well on keeping up with fitness (Not SMCs obviously). At this point DS has given up on his original plan of MMI first but congrats he also did really liked MMI. The staff were really nice to him when there and when I was talking to them during application process.

    The additional question I would ask is branch commissioned into like enlisted in that during the prior service freeze certain fields could still be wavered? Since the degree doesn't always really seem to line up with area placed other than licensed careers like Dr, RN, JD could they go from being commissioned AR/NG after ECP and then commissioned to a short sector after completing SMC? DS did not even know about the lower percentage of AD since we thought the only thing they were saying about the limited Active slots was talking just about slots out of ECP while still finishing the BA. We were told and there is confirming info that ECPs can actually get an Active slot out of school but are still required to get the BA/BS completed in 3. Is there a way to find out what types of active slots are out there or is it more watching staffing needs at units by colleges and talking to that command to see if they would accept an ECP butter bar that is finishing school if they have a slot open?
     
  12. KeyzCat

    KeyzCat Member

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    How much of his final school/s program is available at the JMC MMI has a Service academy prep so they will have upper level maths and sciences that are going to be needed.
     
  13. AROTC Parent

    AROTC Parent Member

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    Please provide your confirming info that "ECP's can actually get an Active slot out of school......" They cannot.

    Without the BA/BS an LT cannot go Active Duty. There might be some Reserve or NG LT out there in their 36 months after ECP that deployed with their unit but that unicorn is glowing. Those ECP LT's prior to completing their degree might also be eligible for ADT's but that's not Active Duty in this context either.
     
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  14. KeyzCat

    KeyzCat Member

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    I think I confused Full Time Reserve with Active which I should have known. sorry again.
     
  15. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Thanks Jcleppe, I agree, I did not word my statement correctly.

    What cadets going into ECP need to know is that you do not get active duty out of the JMC. You either get your grfd control number revoked and receive the right to compete for active duty (and receive it or not based upon your OML score with all the other cadets graduating in that same year), or your number is not revoked and you are assigned guard/reserves. It used to be this decision was made at the cadets follow on school (when my ds signed his scholarship), which means they were evaluated more closely by that follow up schools PMS.
    Today cadets apply to get their control numbers revoked at their JMC before Xmas of their 2nd year (when my ds commissioned, he actually had to do it in April before commissioning, they have advanced it even more). This means the JMC rotc staff has a little over a year to evaluate the cadets. They have to receive approval from the JMC's PMS, cadet command and the secretary of the army. Typically if you receive approval from the first 2 the 3rd one is automatic. But just like at SMC's, the main power lies in the hands of the PMS.

    My ds had very respectable stats, went thru air assault, 3.4 gpa, 280 apft, high evaluation scores and leadership scores and several awards. he was approved by cadet command but not by his PMS, therefore the sec. of army did not approve. The pms only approved 5 out of 17 for revoking their grfd number. Of those only 3 were approved by cadet command and the army. Let's just say it was very apparent diversity was involved in those receiving approval from his school.

    I do not know if cadets that do not get their numbers revoked but go on to SMC's fall into that "guaranteed active duty" category. DS has some friends in that situation so we will find out in a year or so.

    He also had friends from other JMC's that said their PMS stamped everyone approved and let cadet command and the army decide.

    Like Jcleppe said, the program is very fluid and things can change and the cadets do not necessarily have time to respond.

    And like Navymom said it is possible to attain that goal of active duty and a lot relies on what type of student/cadet you are, however, having had a ds go thru the ECP program, there are a lot of things that are out of their hands and the better shot of attaining a shot of active duty lies somewhere other than thru and ECP scholarship. Kinda like OCS, when they are wanting fewer officers, the first thing they do is cut OCS, the next thing is ECP's, after that traditional rotc numbers.
    If the army starts building up again and needing more officers then the chances of obtaining that right to compete for active duty will become greater.

    As I stated above the cadets only receive (or not) the right to compete for active duty when they graduate from the JMC. They still have gpa's and OML points and standings to deal with to actually receive active duty. Even if they get their numbers revoked, they could still end up in guard or reserves.
     
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  16. KeyzCat

    KeyzCat Member

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    Thank you for you and DS's real world assessment. I don't understand what a grfd control number is so that part is still confusing. Does revoking it delay them having to do guard reserve time till determined if being approved for opportunity to apply for active duty at graduation?
    One other thing that I am confused about. The packet says you can not have become active in the military but the cadets that want to start in the program where they are in the reserves as enlisted while a cadet. From what I understand of what my son's NJROTC 4 class were told is they go to basic training during the summer prior to starting school if 17 and have parent approval. sorry can't remember the acronym starts with a M. Is that still okay? My DS can not start if he wants and can till second year but a few of his friends were thinking about it.
     
  17. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    If he goes to basic training he is enlisting. That is a whole different path than just accepting an ECP scholarship and one that I am not familiar with.

    If one accepts the ECP scholarship they are required to do SMP (simultaneous membership program) in which they are assigned and drill with a guard or reserve unit (paid as an E5) while participating in their schools ROTC unit. They go thru MEPS and are assigned a Guaranteed Reserve Forces Detail control number (GRFD). Note the word GUARANTEED. It is this control number that has to be revoked in order for the cadet to be eligible to compete for active duty.

    They do not go to basic, they will go to CIET (Cadet Initial Entry Training?) at Fort Knox in the summer prior to starting school as a freshman. I believe this is what you may be referring to.

    If you do not accept an ECP scholarship, you may participate in and commission thru the ECP program and are not required to do the SMP portion.

    Hopefully this answers your questions.
     
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  18. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    And to finish answering your first question, if your control number does get revoked allowing you to compete for active duty you will still commission into the guard or reserves and must find a unit to drill with until you get your bachelors degree.
     
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  19. 1347eagle

    1347eagle New Member

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    In answer to KeyzCat's question about the JMC having the classes my DS would need to receive his BS at the follow on school.

    It was explained to me that they have received students from JMC. These students sometimes struggle with the core classes needed for specific majors. One such major is engineering. The students come well prepared and hardworking but the course work since it is done in strands (my terminalogy) can present a problem. The prerequisites are taught with the knowledge of what the next course will cover and sequentially what needs to be taught and learned. Of course the follow on school works with these students and tries to get them where they need to be.

    Anyway, my DS is leaning away from the ECP at this point. I don't agree because you know what they say about a bird in hand being better than two in a bush.

    But it is his decision. He has to live with the consequences. He is now seriously thinking about enlisting. He wants a career in the Army .

    Thanks for the replies.
     
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  20. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    What would keep him from attending a traditional 4 year school that has an Army ROTC Program. Even if your son does not receive a scholarship from the third board he can join ROTC his freshman year. There your son would have the opportunity to work hard and be in a position to compete for a Battalion Scholarship if available. There are many cadets every year that receive these scholarships by proving themselves in the first semester.

    What would bring you to this conclusion, What are your son's basic stats? There is still one more board and the majority of scholarships are awarded on the last two boards.
     
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