Ending the Congressional nomination process

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by eaglescout68, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. eaglescout68

    eaglescout68 Member

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    Hello,
    I am writing a paper on ending the Congressional nomination process within the United States. What are some pros and cons to ending this process?
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    No offense, but isn't that like asking us to do the research for you?

    Think about it, if we start giving you all of the pros and cons than all you have left is to place it in the order you want as the defense of your position.

    If you look through all of the SA threads, and the nom. thread you will learn how the MOC nom system works, and decide for yourself what the pro's and cons are for ending the process.

    I.E. here is a comment that was posted on the AFA threads, which is why you should be looking in the SA forums.
     
  3. eaglescout68

    eaglescout68 Member

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    I am not asking anyone to do research, all I am asking is peoples' thoughts on the pros and cons of ending the congressional nomination process.
     
  4. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Perhaps, but not if eaglescout68 properly cites the forum as a source or generate some ideas for him to focus his research.

    I have not written an academic paper in a long time. I know that some internet sites are acceptable source now. Would a teacher consider this forum as a creditable source?

    MemberLG thinks the nomination process is unfair/fair (source SA forum, USMA, discussion XYZ, http:\\sdfd, 17 Dec 2013).
     
  5. eaglescout68

    eaglescout68 Member

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    Correct I am using this site for research since my rep from congress has not gotten back to me yet.
     
  6. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    Oh, I'll bite."Pro and Con" for who? The Member of Congress, the taxpayer, the individual services, the individual academies, the candidate from Wyoming, the candidate from northern Virginia, the smart kid who plays video games all day, the kid who plays aggressive sports, the kid who works, the minority kid, the majority kid? All of those people have different priorities that the nomination system affects. I think your first job is to define your subject with more clarity.
     
  7. CannotBeDisplayed

    CannotBeDisplayed Member

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    I think what Spud just gave you is an excellent place to begin your thought process on this. An easy way to organize this essay would be to discuss pros and cons from different points of view. Something that is a pro for a member of Congress may be a con for the candidate from Wyoming.

    And we smart video gamers are always getting knocked. :wink:
     
  8. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Also, what is the alternative approach? If there is no more nom system, how would you have the SAs choose candidates? Like USCGA, which selects directly? Like USMMA, which uses a slightly varied form of the nom process? Or, best yet, what would you come up with that's unique AND an improvement?

    You may want to think thru the goals of the SAs in selecting candidates. Yes, it's about merit. But is merit simply numbers? I believe Yale once said they could fill an entire entering class with h.s. valedictorians. Do you simply want those with best grades and SAT scores?

    How important is geographic diversity and how does one attain it w/o the nom process? What about "minorities?" Improving officer diversity is a CNO directive. Is it better to have a "second" review of candidates (by the MOC nom committees) -- or not?

    It's easy to criticize something. It's harder to figure out how to replace it with something better. Make the latter your goal.
     
  9. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Not much has to change other than eliminating the congessional screening. Still require 1 accepted candidate per congressional district plus 2 from each state. This will increase the number of candidates the SA's have to review but it will also allow more of the candidates from highly competitive districts to have a chance while still insuring geographic diversity similar to what we currently have.
     
  10. MedB

    MedB Parent

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    Or you could ask an even more basic question... why bother?

    It seems to me that most of the opinions around changing the nomination process are predicated on the notion that somehow the young men and women graduating our SA's are not exceptional; or exceptional enough. I totally and utterly disagree.

    Are we really seeing massive waves of MOCs nominating juvenile delinquents to be our future military leaders? Some might even say the MOCs are putting through fewer "marginal" candidates than the SAs themselves who seem willing to go to great lengths to recruit top athletes who might also be future officers, rather than future officers who happen to be top athletes.

    Of all the challenges our military faces, is reforming the nom process for the SAs really going to move the needle in any meaningful way?

    Certainly any process can be improved; "perfect" doesn't exist. But we can't focus on everything. So before we blow up what we have now, we take a page from the best-practices process improvement handbook and ask what the real ROI potential is here.
     
  11. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Another question to ask is what responsibilities do MOCs have to SAs nomination wise? Interestingly enough, I got a standard briefing on what Army's legislative liaison office does - the office had a list of 10 to 15 things they want MOCs to do, nominating applicants to West Point was on the list. I heard that some MOCs don't nominate at all (I believe no qualified applicants).

    Nomination are important and not important. If you are a competitive candidate, you should be able to get a nomination unless you live in a real competitive district. Even if you have four nominations, if you are not qualified you are not getting in.
     
  12. Not too sharp

    Not too sharp New Member

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    Below is a paste from another thread (regrets). The below scenario is definitely one issue that should change. As taxpayers, we fund the service academys as well as MOC salaries. The geographical diversity is logical and pertinent, but the political involvement makes the process convoluted and can allow manipulation.

    When MOCS choose to not duplicate noms…how often does this happen:
    Jonny & Billy are squared away in every category, 3Q, very competitive candidates & each completes their file very early.

    BTW they live in a very competitive state.

    Senator A decides to nom Jonny & Billy (within non-rated list of 10, no principal determined by Senator A).

    Senator B removes Jonny & Billy (and all of Senator A noms) from his candidate consideration list.

    Congressman Z removes Jonny & Billy (and all local applications that already received noms from A & B).

    Jonny & Billys buddy Mcgruber, although 3Q, is TRULY not as highly qualified as Jonny & Billy, BUT Mcgruber gets the BFE because it plays out that he was the highest on the Congressman Z slate.

    Jonny & Billy get the TWE after NWL cutoff.
     
  13. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    The scenario is convoluted and manipulative if MOCs conspired to spread the nomination to get Mcgruber an appointment, which is highly unlikely. My opinion the scenario is a practice based on an outdated model where when the class size was larger, more kids got with being the #1 kid in the nomination category than now. MOCs perspective is how many kids from my state or district is getting into West Point and if numbers are high, they think nothing wrong with what they are doing. MD typically has about 30 kids getting appointed each year to West Point, so with 2 senators and 8 Congressman, it's about 2 more than what should send. However, I don't think MOC realizes some of these appointments are based on other nomination, but since they live in their state or district, they can claim them as theirs.

    With the nomination process there are always unintended consequence. We can't make life fair. We are focused on the MOC nomination, but there are other nominations - Presidential, Service Connected and Superintendent.
     
  14. Not too sharp

    Not too sharp New Member

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    The scenario is convoluted and manipulative

    We can't make life fair. We are focused on the MOC nomination, but there are other nominations - Presidential, Service Connected and Superintendent.[/QUOTE]


    Not really sure how the scenario is convoluted or manipulative. Details are all simple and probable events in the process (as it stands). It does happen, and not saying it's intentional on anyones part, but faulty it is (shouldn't be part of a 'lifes not fair lesson").

    We are focused on the MOC nomination.....because that's the subject of this thread.
     
  15. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Yes, but a candidate can receive more than just MOC nomination. I am on a nomination board and one year discussed not giving a nomination to a candidate because he qualified for two non-MOC nomination. We did as we didn't want to game the system at our level.
     
  16. Packer

    Packer Member

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    What value is the MOC nomination/screening process adding?

    The MOCs see value because it gives them more power but just because they see value does not mean there is value.

    I am not trying to argue but am curious as to what the value is today.
     
  17. eaglescout68

    eaglescout68 Member

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    Thanks for all of your help on this everyone. My congresswoman got back to me in time to hand in my paper.
     
  18. time2

    time2 Member

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    Curious who this paper was for. Most h.s. probably don't know the service academy application/NOM process well enough to ask you to write such a paper. Even in college, not sure that would be a meaningful topic since so few apply to such academies and by the time you are in college, it becomes a non-issue since you have chosen a different route to get your degree.

    Assuming there was truly a valid academic assignment, not sure I would ever ask a MOC for such input.
     
  19. eaglescout68

    eaglescout68 Member

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    It was for senior composition and my advisor was a Lt within the coast guard.
     

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