Experimented with Marijuana after Appointment (What Will Happen?)

aglages said:
I believe the responses the OP has received cannot be totally unexpected. He posted on a forum where many of the posters (and their parents) are heavily vested in the "honor" system. In addition many of us have felt the anguish of the applicants that failed to receive an appointment...sometimes more than once. While it may only be one "stupid choice among many stupid choices appointees make before arriving", it seems (IMHO) inexcusably arrogant to smoke a blunt weeks before I-Day.... as though his appointment has no value. Tough for many to read and understand on this forum and why some have posted that they hoped he was a troll and not serious.

However, in the end you are probably correct.....it's good advice to "Tone it down and get a grip".
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I dont disagree at all with the opinion that it is an exceedingly dumb choice to make after receiving an appointment. There are an enormous number of reasons people lose their slot before or as a cadet - ranging from dumb choices to it not being the right place. I remember the stress of waiting. But if people get worked up over every person who has an appointment and didn't get to graduation for whatever reason and they should have gotten it instead, boy oh boy they'd lose their minds! And not every graduate is a beacon of honor and good judgment!

Perhaps I was a bit over the top with "get a grip." But my intention was more, "face reality" and quit the overly harsh criticisms of such a person (OP or not) who made a dumb choice like this. I'm more concerned with the sentiments about marijuana and its use. On active duty, there are a LOT of mean and women, officer and enlisted, who have used marijuana before in their lives and before the military. If I was so harsh to those around me that I've lived and worked with on active duty who have used pot before, I'd feel pretty isolated and viewed as a 'prude.'

There's all sorts of people, great and hard-working people, who have done things before joining or who make decisions (legal) on duty that many people would find immoral or distasteful. As future officers, these candidates and cadets need to understand the importance of being professional and recognizing the great diversity in our ranks and some of the decisions people made in their younger years. Such quit judgment on something like marijuana use is really an inappropriate response on active duty and can really hurt a professional environment. Enforcing the standard we signed for is encouraged, but moral judgements on it can cause a pickle.

I'm hoping this is making sense - it's a good lesson in reality on what to expect in the armed forces. It's made up of people, not automatons. Being leaders means having some empathy and broadening one's horizons a bit.
 
hornetguy said:
Given the abundance of shaming from being called sickening, that parents should be supremely ashamed, and the complete denouncing of the OP's (troll or not) character, you'd think he'd have killed a small child rather than smoked a blunt.

Seriously, it's a stupid choice among many stupid choices appointees make before arriving. Smoking a joint doesn't make someone an immoral miscreant. He made a poor decision and will deal with it however he chooses but it doesn't excuse the righteous condemnation everyone is throwing around here. Tone it down and get a grip.
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The OP is trying to get into a school that taxpayers pay for a lot of money per cadet, $480,000.00 total each student for 4 years. A school that graduates future leaders of our military and possibly our country. So as a parent of an incoming cadet and taxpayer I expect more from our future leaders. So if he is willing to disregard what was instructed to him, does he have the character to lead. Are you willing to follow or lead a person into a hotzone that is not able to follow the easiest of instructions? So what if he/she tried crystal-meth, cocaine, heroine, x, or oxy? Would that make a difference? I myself don't look at the drug used but the instructions given and failed to follow. I believe most of the parents on this thread believe the same thing.

I don't condemn him for making the mistake, I even stated if not admitted he should try again next year. Yes, everyone makes mistakes but people need to learn that there are consequences to their decision making.
 
808DAD said:
The OP is trying to get into a school that taxpayers pay for a lot of money per cadet, $480,000.00 total each student for 4 years. A school that graduates future leaders of our military and possibly our country. So as a parent of an incoming cadet and taxpayer I expect more from our future leaders. So if he is willing to disregard what was instructed to him, does he have the character to lead. Are you willing to follow or lead a person into a hotzone that is not able to follow the easiest of instructions? So what if he/she tried crystal-meth, cocaine, heroine, x, or oxy? Would that make a difference? I myself don't look at the drug used but the instructions given and failed to follow. I believe most of the parents on this thread believe the same thing.

I don't condemn him for making the mistake, I even stated if not admitted he should try again next year. Yes, everyone makes mistakes but people need to learn that there are consequences to their decision making.
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This isn't crystal meth, it's pot. I do not believe the use of pot once, experimentally proves he has no character to lead. Stop this line of reasoning. It's over simplistic bordering on the naive. Many of the airmen and officers I work with now and in the past made stupid decisions such as pot, over drinking, or any number of creative lapses of judgment. And guess what? For the most part, they do a pretty damn good job, work hard, and try to do right by each other. Rules are broken all the time (when there are thousands of pages of regulations and rules, it tends to happen) and breaking them doesn't necessarily make a person immoral, lacking of character, in incapable of leading. To think that every officer or leader in the military is pure in their past and in their behavior 24/7 is a deception. I am not advocating he should not fess up. I'm making the distinction that the attack on someone's character like the ones you are making is disingenuous to so many in our armed forces. I don't know if you've served or not, but I'm sure you many veterans can tell volumes of the stupid s*** their guys and girls have done and that many of those same people were ones they would still trust anyway.

Stop trashing some hypothetical person's character for the misuse of pot as making them incapable of being a leader. It's ridiculous.
 
It's not the pot, it's the decision.

PS - I completely get what you're saying and I'm not trying to argue. It's just that the best indicator of the future is the past, IME.
 
cybersnyder said:
It's not the pot, it's the decision.

PS - I completely get what you're saying and I'm not trying to argue. It's just that the best indicator of the future is the past, IME.
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So one bad decision means one can not possibly be a responsible, honorable leader? Especially when one is so young? If that's the case then it seems to me no one would measure up.
 
Applying to a service academy, for most kids (and their parents), is a years and years' long process, with the final year being the most stressful with the application and then the waiting. I think for a lot of people the academy and then ultimately the military they are dying to serve in gets put on this pedestal that becomes something all holy.
Speaking as a girl who grew up in the navy, joined AROTC, got hurt, finished my degree and enlisted with the plans to go OCS, married my ROTC sweety who was an O2 at the time while I was E4...guys, officers and enlisted soldiers/sailors/airman/marines are PEOPLE. They come in every shape, size, color, and background that you can imagine and NONE of them are perfect. Some of the worst officers I have known came from an academy, and the other worst ones came from ROTC. Just as the best ones came from both sources. Leaders should not be infallible creatures. And I would rather have a leader with some of his or her own bumps and bruises so that they can better relate to me and the regular people around me.
I believe one of the beat pieces of advice we received in ROTC by our training NCO was, "You are not the first officer to be in charge of your troops and you will not be the last, don't play God."
 
USAFA83GradWife said:
Can't help but think that if the OP is a troll, he just got the reaction he was looking for.
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Sounds like a troll to me, but there is also an undertone of condemnation in this chain that seems more about the inequity of the Appointments, and how its unfair that this flawed degenerate stole a slot from all the rejected, but perfect, candidates.

In my limited experience, the Candidates that make it to April who don't get in, are pretty much the same as the candidates who were Appointed. All pretty much outstanding, with great potential. This last cut isn't about perfection. Its about Districts, and Charges, and needing a pitcher. Its not a moral ranking from 1st to last. ALL these finalists have the stuff.

I would bet there are the same percentages of STD's, abortions, drug use, stealing, among the 3Q NS's, those Appointed for 2018, and current 4 Stars. Yes, some of your 'perfect kids' haven't been entirely straight with you. And yes, I don't see a moral distinction between last week, or last year. The judgment shown was equally poor in both cases....and shouldn't shock any of us. These are kids.

This kid did something dumb. He should tell the truth on his SF (I tried it once) and show up on I day, and never make a dumb mistake again. And no, It wont show up on his pee test in a month. I don't see a morale distinction between a 3Q NS who smoked pot 2 months ago, and this kid. If he is a degenerate, he will be found soon enough, and will have wasted a good part of his life. If he is imperfect, and learns from his mistakes, he will be a good Officer. If he learns and holds him self to a higher standard, because he has something to prove now -- to himself -- he will likely be ahead of his peers who will make similar mistakes as Cadets, LTs, and COL's.
 
Dial the gate said:
Applying to a service academy, for most kids (and their parents), is a years and years' long process, with the final year being the most stressful with the application and then the waiting. I think for a lot of people the academy and then ultimately the military they are dying to serve in gets put on this pedestal that becomes something all holy.
Speaking as a girl who grew up in the navy, joined AROTC, got hurt, finished my degree and enlisted with the plans to go OCS, married my ROTC sweety who was an O2 at the time while I was E4...guys, officers and enlisted soldiers/sailors/airman/marines are PEOPLE. They come in every shape, size, color, and background that you can imagine and NONE of them are perfect. Some of the worst officers I have known came from an academy, and the other worst ones came from ROTC. Just as the best ones came from both sources. Leaders should not be infallible creatures. And I would rather have a leader with some of his or her own bumps and bruises so that they can better relate to me and the regular people around me.
I believe one of the beat pieces of advice we received in ROTC by our training NCO was, "You are not the first officer to be in charge of your troops and you will not be the last, don't play God."
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Well stated! :thumb:
 
its not the pot

cybersnyder said:
It's not the pot, it's the decision
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i agree - its not the pot smoking per se. its the audacity of disregarding simple warnings/instructions thats getting most of the posters riled up. it could have been any other things that OP knew was not allowed/wrong to do and im sure it would have elicited the same reaction/response. im sure most of these are from parents of appointees or cadets and i understand where they are coming from.


and because it was "just pot," are we supposed to give OP a pat on the back and say its ok because when you go AD its acceptable behavior anyway?

and i think its terribly rude for the OP to post a question on here and not even acknowledge the responses to it whether positive or negative. people have taken their time to post responses. definitely a troll.
 
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skismuggs said:
i agree - its not the pot smoking per se. its the audacity of disregarding simple warnings/instructions thats getting most of the posters riled up. it could have been any other things that OP knew was not allowed/wrong to do and im sure it would have elicited the same reaction/response. im sure most of these are from parents of appointees or cadets and i understand where they are coming from.


and because it was "just pot," are we supposed to give OP a pat on the back and say its ok because when you go AD its acceptable behavior anyway?

and i think its terribly rude for the OP to post a question on here and not even acknowledge the responses to it whether positive or negative. people have taken their time to post responses. definitely a troll.
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Excuse me, but I believe all of us were 'Told' not do things in our lives, by our parents, pastors, and government, that we did anyway. Its what we do next that matters. Let thee without sin cast the first stone. Or for the kids, Monty Python would say "If he sinks and dies, he is not a witch. If he floats, he is a witch. Burn him"
 
nothingventurednothinggai said:
He should tell the truth on his SF (I tried it once) and show up on I day..
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Does anyone believe that if he admits to smoking pot AFTER receiving his appointment that he will keep his appointment and be allowed to show up on I-Day?

Anyone want to recommend that the OP NOT come clean about this one time youthful mistake in judgement?
Regardless of how forgiving/understanding some posters have suggested we should be.....will the powers that be at USAFA understand/forgive this one mistake and allow the OP to in-process on I-Day this year?
 
What I believe he should do is read these posts, recognize that no one is perfect, and recognize that being an Academy Graduated Officer is a self selected thing where you will be held to a higher standard. And he must hold himself to a higher standard. This behavior was incredibly stupid. But, the zero defect tone on this thread is not productive either. Great Officers are getting fired right and left today because they were 'caught' as less than perfect, often in irrelevant ways, or did some un PC silliness. In War Time, "Perfect" Officers get fired right and left, because most perfect people have proved to be bad leaders of men in combat. Great leaders F up, know it, and make a vow to themselves to be better. Let 'em run until its a pattern. Jeez, McChrystal trashed the art at West Point in a Cadet riot. There is no General Officer who didn't do something foolish that he would take back.

I don't believe he should fall on his sword, and I don't believe he should lie.

He should run 10 miles a day to be fit before I day. He should recognize he F'd up, and make a vow to himself that an Officer has to set the standard.

On his SF he should truthfully say he tried pot once in HS before he took his oath. That will be a lot less badness than most of the 'perfect' guys who will beat on him as perfect specimens of 20 year old seniors have done.
 
Basically it comes down to do you tell someone or do you lie and continue to do so every time you take the oath. Report it, but report it late on Friday and maybe they'll be less prone to do the paperwork to drop you. A pee test probably won't catch it. A hair test is unlikely. But since you posted here already, what is possible is that someone from admissions saw your post and contacted the mods who can supply the IP address that you used to make your initial and only posting on the forum. Guess what other site tracks IP addresses? The Academy portal. So less likely than getting caught by a pee test is the possibility that they already know who you are and will do a hair follicle test on you when you arrive. Maybe you were smart and didn't use you home computer or any computer/device that you ever used to access the portal.

It's a longshot, but still possible.
 
after...

after all the waiting for appointments we needed this thread for a good laugh
 
kinnem said:
So one bad decision means one can not possibly be a responsible, honorable leader? Especially when one is so young? If that's the case then it seems to me no one would measure up.
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I don't know anyone that would measure up. Everybody that I know has knowingly violated some rule at one time or another.

Hornet is right.
 
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