Exterminate the Taliban

M

MNDad2015

5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2011
Messages
69
First, just MOHO but I hope most will agree. I was devastated with the news I heard this morning. Among the dead in the Chinook helicopter crash in Afghanistan were 31 U.S. Special Ops Forces. No mention as to whether the crash was due to enemy fire or mechanical failure, but the Taliban quickly claimed responsibility.

If I could issue the orders, here's what I would do:

  1. Clear out all U.S. and NATO personel, as well as civilians from that region.
  2. Send in half a dozen B-52's and carpet-bomb the crap out of it.
  3. Follow-up with as many Daisy Bombs needed to make sure no one survived.
  4. Determine the next hot spot and airdrop flyers asking the Taliban in that area if they want to be next.

Would end up looking like the Grand Caynon. Maybe some ambitious developer might turn it into a huge lake resort. Again, just MOHO.

MNDad2015
 
Well, there is a small detail. If it was that easy to clear out all civilians in the area, we would have half as many issues as we have with the war on Afghanistan.
 
BillSL said:
Well, there is a small detail. If it was that easy to clear out all civilians in the area, we would have half as many issues as we have with the war on Afghanistan.
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I hope we have enough intel as to who helps us and who helps them. Probably a lot more of the latter, might as well just leave them and shouldn't be a problem getting the few that care out of harms way. Taliban or Taliban supporter, same in my opinion.
 
MNDad2015 said:
First, just MOHO but I hope most will agree. I was devastated with the news I heard this morning. Among the dead in the Chinook helicopter crash in Afghanistan were 31 U.S. Special Ops Forces. No mention as to whether the crash was due to enemy fire or mechanical failure, but the Taliban quickly claimed responsibility.

If I could issue the orders, here's what I would do:

  1. Clear out all U.S. and NATO personel, as well as civilians from that region.
  2. Send in half a dozen B-52's and carpet-bomb the crap out of it.
  3. Follow-up with as many Daisy Bombs needed to make sure no one survived.
  4. Determine the next hot spot and airdrop flyers asking the Taliban in that area if they want to be next.

Would end up looking like the Grand Caynon. Maybe some ambitious developer might turn it into a huge lake resort. Again, just MOHO.

MNDad2015
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No offense, but it's a good thing you're not in charge. What would that plan solve? Sure, you kill people who may or may not be in the region, and I'm not even going to get into the gross impossibility that is separating Taliban militant and friendly civilian. But suppose you accomplish that impossible objective and bomb the region into oblvion. Suppose you completely level it with a nuclear weapon power conventional explosion. Now you have just destroyed everything those civilians ever knew. Their home, their job, their possessions all gone. You now have a group of homeless, destitute, and unemployed civilians with a very good reason to hate the United States. And they probably have friends, who would hear the story and also have reason to hate the United States. And those friends have friends. And so on. The immediate aftereffects alone would create more fighters than you could possibly hope to kill in the bombardment, not to mention the others who would join as a result of the second and third order effects of it.
 
Hence, win a battle, lose the war (for the Hearts & Minds).
 
linkgmr said:
No offense, but it's a good thing you're not in charge. What would that plan solve? Sure, you kill people who may or may not be in the region, and I'm not even going to get into the gross impossibility that is separating Taliban militant and friendly civilian. But suppose you accomplish that impossible objective and bomb the region into oblvion. Suppose you completely level it with a nuclear weapon power conventional explosion. Now you have just destroyed everything those civilians ever knew. Their home, their job, their possessions all gone. You now have a group of homeless, destitute, and unemployed civilians with a very good reason to hate the United States. And they probably have friends, who would hear the story and also have reason to hate the United States. And those friends have friends. And so on. The immediate aftereffects alone would create more fighters than you could possibly hope to kill in the bombardment, not to mention the others who would join as a result of the second and third order effects of it.
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So your plan would be to send it countless more U.S. troops to die?
 
Human nature does not change.
If people hate you, and think they have nothing to lose/something to gain, they will not hesitate to attack (with whatever means they feel appropriate).

Laying waste to entire regions only rids you of enemies when you leave them unable to attack you...aka kill everyone, salt the earth, etc. THANKFULLY, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than purposefully committing genocide!

Next, if we were to avoid murdering untold numbers of civilians, we would have to let them know to leave. That would give the Taliban the same opportunity...

Sure, the CBUs and Daisy Cutters would put on quite a show, but the plan is counterproductive. It would generate more enemies while maybe taking out a few who have no communications (i.e. the low level fighters only).
 
MNDad2015 said:
Hey BillSL,

You quote from the past. I know there's a lot of good advice, but get real. Things have changed.

MNDad2015
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I know what you mean, and I agree things have changed a lot. But there is a small detail in your plan, as pointed by linkgmr and raimius, that needs to be addressed.

What I meant with my quote was that, hey, I see what you wanna do with your plan: scare the crap out of the Talibans who did this, right? Well, you can do that REALLLYYYY easily.

But, as Stealth said, "It's not that simple."

You will, probably, install fear into those fighters. But, shall I remind you of what we did in the beginning of the Afghanistan invasion? Carpet bombs after carpet bombs after laser-guided missiles after carpet bombs after carpet bombs after... Didn't quite work as we thought it would.

It did quite some damage, but we were expecting something ELSE. We were expecting a victory through destruction.

Why do you think the term "Hearts & Minds" is used so often lately? It's because that's how we win our new fights: winning the Hearts and Minds of the people.

Bombing the crap out of something is not always the way to go on this situation we are facing nowadays.

Perhaps I should've explained what I meant when I first posted that quote, but I hope you now understand with what I meant "Win the battle, lose the war". You scare the Hell out of a few dozens of Taliban fighters. You scare the hell out of some thousands of civilians. And, in the end, you've accomplished nothing.




OF COURSE, though, this is a perspective from a 17-year-old kid who only knows war from books, news and games, so I could be speaking a load of nonsense here. If I am, I am sorry.
 
MNDad2015 said:
So your plan would be to send it countless more U.S. troops to die?
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Of course not. That would imply yet another conventional approach to an unconventional scenario. As difficult as it sounds, the only way to win this kind of war is to get the civilian population on your side. You show yourself to be a favorable alternative to the Taliban, and maybe the civilian population gives you some support. You combine that with staying power and you can actually win the war. Its long and painful, but its pretty much the only viable solution .
 
BillSL said:
OF COURSE, though, this is a perspective from a 17-year-old kid who only knows war from books, news and games, so I could be speaking a load of nonsense here. If I am, I am sorry.
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Don't be mistaken you are far wiser than most when it comes to this. I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say "we should just drop a nuke on this place and turn it into a parking lot". At least you are keeping current, researching, and making an educated observation. Don't devalue your position because of your age.

Linkgmr and BillSL are completely right, you won't win the war unless you win the people. THAT'S how insurgency will lose their drive, when the people they harass, abuse and manipulate stand up against them.
 
From my research, it seems most people in Afghanistan just want justice, security, and honor. Simple concepts that are hard to deliver!
 
MNDad2015 said:
Hey BillSL,

You quote from the past. I know there's a lot of good advice, but get real. Things have changed.

MNDad2015
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Ah, the expertise of the random American news-digester.

While you're insulting other members and pontificating on your sure-fire method for winning the war, I invite you to take a moment and investigate the Soviet experience in Afghanistan. The scorched earth policy didn't work so well for them, to the tune of almost 13,000 combat deaths and over 56,000 wounded on their side alone.

You're right. Times have changed. But BillSL isn't the one who needs to get real in this discussion.

**We now return to your regularly scheduled oversimplified blanket statements on how to fix our complex problems from unqualified anonymous internet experts.**
 
MNDAD, I would agree with your very basic premise, that we need to erradicate terrorism. However, I disagree with your method. While it may accomplish the basic premise, it would be like using a sword to take out a bad tooth. You'll get the tooth out, but you'll also experience many side affects, to put it lightly.
 
scout, I was hoping for one of those videos of that guy shaking his head slowly and walking away. I liked that.:thumb:

In all seriousness your solution really does not make sense to me mostly because you are talking about destroying a region that millions of people live near/on. Where are they supposed to return after we "bomb the crap out of them"? There are kids from Afghanistan at my school, and I can tell you that they wouldn't be too thrilled about being evacuated from their homes and then coming home to a waste-land. Would you like it if that happened in your hometown/country?

I hope that that was not a regularly scheduled oversimplified blanket statements on how to fix our complex problems from an unqualified anonymous internet expert. If it was, I apologize.
 
MNDad...

As a parent, it hits me in the gut when I hear the reports like the ones this weekend. I also get the burning desire to kill them all... However, I also realize that some of those who fight do so because of the line of BS they are being fed by those who seem to be in charge. For example, one of the lines being passed around is that our purpose is to spread Christianity.

I would suggest you spend some time reading Michael Yon's blog (just google Michael Yon and you'll get the link). One of his more recent articles was about how the Taliban was using kids to test the effectiveness of their roadside bombs. A father took one of his kids to our troops and they saved his life (though he lost his leg). THAT is just as much of a reason we are fighting this war as anything. They are attempting to export this type of action to places around the world...especially on our own shores.
 
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong...H. L. Mencken
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The United States will always do the right thing—when all other possibilities have been exhausted. W. Churchill
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Both seem appropriate for this thread.
 
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong..." H. L. Mencken

That is a great quote. Explains the appeal of some current political candidates.
 
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