Failure to Disclose

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Cards, May 25, 2012.

  1. Cards

    Cards New Member

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    So here's the whole story. In high school I smoked weed. I'd say it was a little more than experimental (I consider experimental like once or twice) but I was far from a frequent user, I would smoke like once every other month or so. Anyways, I applied for and got a four-year army scholarship. When I arrived on campus they pulled all the scholarship kids out of class to fill out their enrollment forms, and when they asked me if I had ever done illegal substances I answered "Yes" and wrote "rarely" in the box. Come this year (MSIII) I was filling out the paperwork for ascensions and for LDAC and when the question popped up I didn't know what to put, thinking, "Well, I already told them yes, do they mean since that answer?" So I asked a buddy, and he said to put no so I just did and moved on.

    That never sat well with me and I was talking to my friends about it and they told me to not worry about it and to not bring it up. But I couldn't let it go so I went down and talked to my cadre on changing my answer to "Yes". Then they opened my file they saw my DODmerb where I put "no" when I was still in high school. I was surprised, as I don't remember filling out the DODmerb, and I honestly can't say whether I put no as a lie or if I was just checking no boxes down the line and missed it. They told me that at LDAC, they are going to see my DODmerb and my ascensions packet, which both said no, and that was it. It was up to me what I wanted to do. I've decided that I want to be honest with it and am changing my ascensions packet to "yes" so all my paperwork since high school is forthright and correct.

    In talking with my PMS, he told me "Could I charge you with failure to disclose? Yes. Am I? Hell no. You're a good kid who made a mistake in high school and has obviously shown a lot of integrity in bringing this to our attention and trying to fix it. But, I've never seen this before, so I don't know what's going to happen and it's not always my call."

    And that's what I'm hoping to find here, if any one here knows what's going to happen. I've come to terms that I might lose my scholarship and have been forming plans B, C, and D, but I'm at least comforted in knowing that I'm doing the right thing. The uncertainty is just killing me, though. Basically, from my understanding, my options range from a "Hey, you're good to go" to waiting a year for LDAC for waivers to disenrollment.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  2. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Cards,

    I have no idea either what may happen, but I sincerely applaud your decision to be honest. Hopefully, some of the more in the know posters will give you information that may be helpful. In a fair world your integrity would count for more than a stupid decision made in highschool, unfortunately we all know fair doesn't factor in decisions such as this one. Good luck and please return and post your outcome.
     
  3. Gojira

    Gojira Member

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    They could, and have disenrolled for this.

    As many of you know, my son was disenrolled from NROTC in senior year, just prior to commissioning. While scouring the internet, I saw a situation much like one you describe on one of the boards.

    I hope that doesn't happen to you, but would urge you to begin researching this asap. See what the possible consequences are. If they kick you out, you will likely be on the hook for tuition costs at full list price. Be prepared and keep on good behavior - don't give them a reason to kick you out.

    Sorry you are going through this.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    There is no easy read, but I would be prepared for the revocation of your scholarship and disenrollment from AROTC.

    Yrs ago when they didn't have enough military members maybe it would have been swept under the carpet, but now with the Army reducing personnel, I doubt this will not be an issue.

    I know of 2 AFROTC cadets that lost not only their scholarship in the last 12 months, but were informed that they were dis-enrolled and could never take an OCS path. Experimental in the AF's eyes is 1x, maybe 2x, but def. not 1X every other month for a yr or so.

    Your other issue is you now have competing disclosures. Application for scholarship was a Yes. DoDMERB and LDAC was a No. Investigations will occur to figure out the depth of the "experimental" issue.

    Nobody here can give you a true answer, because nobody will sit on your review board. All we can say is this forum is littered with this question and the answers are always the same. Keep in mind, the circumstances are always different, maybe your PMS will go to bat for you and you will get a waiver, however at the end of the day it is the Army's decision, not the PMS.

    Your scenario is also why we stress to be not only thorough, but truthful when filling out the DoDMERB, because that question is there and in 2 yrs from now, you may forget how you answered it.

    FWIW, in 2 yrs from now at commissioning you will go through another DodMERB, and depending on your career field you may go through TS clearance; this question will come up again not only for you, but will be asked by a govt agent to every person you use as a reference. Point blank question: Do you know if they have ever used any illegal substance?

    Get it totally on the table now and let the chips fall where they may, you don't want this over your head for two more yrs.

    I am sorry this is occurring to you, and my hopes, thoughts and prayers will be with you during this emotional time.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am not sure that is true because he has yet to become a POC, it may mean he will just lose his scholarship. Your DS was a POC. I know that is how it works with AFROTC. Until the cadet graduates from SFT(aka LDAC) and becomes a POC, they have yet to sign their commitment papers. DS's friend completed SFT, came home and decided he wanted out, but because he completed SFT, he was considered a C300 (POC), he was now on the hook for close to 43K. The AF forced him to pay that money back.

    I would think other posters know for a fact on how that works.
     
  6. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Not true...unlike AF, you are on contract and are obligated to pay back or serve.
    You are thinking too hard on this one. The PMS has already told you he isn't going to pursue it. If you are called on it, you have an explanation. Just relax and keep doing the right thing, just like you've been doing for the last three years. If you want to be kicked out and pay back your scholarship keep bringing this up and putting people in a position where they have to do something about it.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Clarkson,

    I respect you a lot, but the OP stated:
    In this current military structure, you feel secure enough to state to your own child:
    Not trying to argue with you, but I am left to question the basis of why you feel he is secure. As a parent, I would be prepping for plan B. Army is the biggest on the hit list compared to AF and Navy. Gojira is Navy, I am AF and both of us has stated the fat lady would be singing, and we are not saying warming up her pipes!

    I do not get your premise at all.
     
  8. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    What's not to get about his "premise"? The PMS already told the OP the answer- this kid is doing the right thing and personally I would make it 90-10 that the PMS is right.
    You aren't doing the OP any favors telling them that despite what the PMS told them- they should "run in circles and scream and shout". In this climate or any other- premature or unwarranted panic helps no one and the chain of command and Clarkson are both telling him as much.
     
  9. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Cards says he originally disclosed that he used experimentally. He then stated that his understanding of the LDAC survey was asking if he used since enrolling. As someone who deals with these issues fairly frequently, it's a judgement call for the PMS. If Cards is doing what is right, and the PMS has indicated that he supports him he shouldn't have any worries. The cadet did the right thing to ask for clarification, and I think he'll be fine.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    bruno,

    I am not disagreeing with you, but thus what the OP stated regarding the PMS
    The OP's issue is he has a confliction in his paperwork. They pulled up his DoDMERB stating he never used illegal drugs.

    I hope and wish him the best, but IMPO the OP is splitting hairs by stating I would smoke like once every other month or so. yet in college I never smoked!

    He did not experiment in HS, he bowed to peer pressure IMPO because in his own words which I already acknowledged.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Clarkson,

    What is exactly experimental regarding, AROTC? !X, 2X, 10 times? Where is the cut off for marijuana use?

    If the Army has a cutoff point state it now, and this thread will die. OP will have an answer either way. If it doesn't, they are left in a lurch
     
  12. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    I think it's 18...but I could be wrong. Here is what is most likely going to happen...Cards will go to LDAC. No one will pick up the fact that he checked a no block on his DODMERB and a yes block on his 139r. He'll get an overall S at camp because he's a solid cadet, and He'll commission and get branched field artillery. He'll go on to be a good Lieutenant and may even serve out his 20 years and retire. It will all be fine....but i could be wrong.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Wow, 18 times is allowed? Like I said for AFROTC 3 is a "you are out of here" situation. From what Gojira has stated NROTC is also like AFROTC regarding the out of here perspective.

    I am with the AF on the 3 and out rule, because honestly experimenting 1x or 2x, okay, but by the 3rd time you know what it does to you. You know that it is illegal regardless of any age. You caved to peer pressure. Granted we all cave to peer pressure in our lives, but 18 times is a lot of caving.

    Thanks for the info, I am sure it will be very helpful that candidates, cadets and mids understand every branch is different regarding where the cut off line is, and we should never assume that because 1 branch allows X amount that every branch will be the same.
     
  14. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Pima - I took Clarkson's number "18" to be a bit facetious, but I could be wrong.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    You may be right, but I would think there is a finite number. When I 1st read 18, age was 1st popped into my mind, not the amount of times.
     
  16. Cards

    Cards New Member

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    Perhaps I can add some clarification.

    My original DODmerb said no, my 139r and my security clearance (from what I remember) say yes, and my LDAC paperwork says no. I checked no on the LDAC paperwork because I figured I had already told them yes and I hadn't done it since I told them yes. After rethinking it, I figured that was wrong and that I misunderstood it and went to change it, when they brought up my DODmerb which I don't remember filling out. They told me that no one will notice at LDAC and to just go with the flow, but that it may become an issue down the road. I went with their advice at first but was going crazy with it, so I went down and told them I want to change my LDAC paperwork to yes (which apparently I have to do at LDAC) and my PMS (MAJ) talked it over with the COL, and they both agreed that I was doing the right thing and to just see what happens.

    After giving it a lot of thought, and after everyone's advice, I am definitely prepping for Plan B and see that as the likely scenario. It sucks and is embarressing, but life continues and I'll just have to adapt and drive on.

    I don't think the issue is really how much you used, and in my personal opinion I don't think that really should be an issue, people learn and change. The issue is that I lied or messed up in high school (I don't remember for sure, but I probably lied) and in college I have been honest and want to continue to be.

    But I thank everyone for their input and support, and I'll definitely come back and post the outcome.
     
  17. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    The recruiter told my son, "Did you ever smoke pot? If you tell me no, and check that no on the form, never, ever, change your answer.
     

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