Falcons to the Big East?

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by BobBigBoy, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. BobBigBoy

    BobBigBoy Member

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    Ok...I have waited long enough and no one else wants to bring it up...How about the big rumor of the football team only going to the Big East? Talk about a money grab. Or is AF taking advantage of filling the vacuum of a rapidly evaporating Big East which has an automatic BCS bowl bid.

    USAFA is a founding member of the Mountain West but if Navy says they are going, AF is following along with Boise State. Wouldn't the Big 12 make more sense? Would that make them Big East, West? What would that mean for the "Olympic" sports? Such a move would make it easy to step down to a lower echelon conference where the non-football teams would be better suited. Maybe Big Sky or WAC as the Mountain West is just too strong for the AF's other sports. Navy and Army have the right idea by playing in the Patriot league which is better aligned with the talent they can recruit.

    Just a little different subject while everyone is waiting for their LOA's!
     
  2. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    1. It's more than just a rumor.
    2. The Big-12 offered Air Force an invite to the Big-12, but their conference is ALL SPORTS. Football could hang with the Big-12, especially with kansas, kansas st, iowa st, etc... But our other sports would be killed. Turning down the Big-12 was a good move.
    3. Our non-football sports will probably go to the WCC or Big Sky if we accept the big-east for football.
    4. There's a lot of advantages to accepting the big-east. Especially if Navy also accepts. Money is definitely one of them. And believe it or not, except for appropriated funds for things like the utility bills, maintenance, and head coach salaries; most of the athletic department has to earn money just like most universities. Ticket sales, advertising, boosters, bowl games, tv contracts, etc... The MWC had a terrible tv contract and it's not even up for renewal for another 3 years. And the commissioner said they won't try and renegotiate early.
    5. With navy in the same conference, that actually opens up an additional out of conference game. Hopefully we can arrange some OOC games with some of our long time rivals like Wyoming, CSU, and New Mexico.

    All in all, if we accept the big-east invite, it's a good decision. Football pays for just about everything athletic related. The other sports just don't bring in that kind of money. And being our cadets don't normally go pro after graduating, and they all will shoulder the same responsibilities and duties: Past D1 athlete or not; I think it's only fair that while cadets, all of them should be able to enjoy the same opportunities. But that takes money.

    The current MWC TV contract is approximately $1.3 million per year. The estimated tv contract in the big east, which is up for renewal next spring, and they are the only conference up for a new contract and therefor will have a lot of interested parties being college football is so big; they are estimating around $7-$8 million for the football only teams like air force, navy, and boise state. While the primary purpose of the academies isn't creating pro athletes, athletics are a fundamental and essential tool for developing leaders. Hence, one of the reasons high school sports and sports leadership is so important for academy applicants.

    I'm all for the move to the big-east. Even if the conference was to go bust, we are in a no lose position. We collect millions from the teams that would leave, and worse case scenario, we go independent. If the conference survives, which I believe it will, it will be great for our football team. Our other sports will do fine. The only sport I think might be cheated a little is Basketball. While they were .500 last year; and last place the 2 years before that; we've had some very good years in the last 8 years. Including a conference championship. I think our basketball is heading in the right direction. I'd like to see them in the MWC or equal conference. Other than that, I think the move is a good deal all around.
     
  3. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    The Big Least? Yawn. They'd be better off as independent. They'll never make it to a BCS bowl, and money isn't a dire concern. There's no reason to go conference hunting.

    Air Force would not fare well in the Big 12 football melee.
     
  4. Texasrocks

    Texasrocks Member

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    Swimming was competative in the MWC, however the mens swimming evaporated when Utah, TCU and BYU left not sure about the other sports.

    I don't think the football program can be competative in the Big 12 over the season. You are fighting a huge size differential and when you fight that week in and week out it will take its toll. Not to say they can't play a great game and even beat big 12 schools, I don't think the program can withstand that kind of a weekly punishment. I believe the AD even commented to that in one of his statements.
     
  5. osdad

    osdad Member

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    Why make a move now?

    The BCS TV contract expires after the Jan 2014 Nat Champ game. With existing schedule commitments for 2012, they wouldn’t start playing B-East games until the 2013 season, so they’ll only get one year’s worth of revenue.
    The big question is what happens after 2014. My wish is that the top 128 teams leave the NCAA and form 8 – 16 team football only conferences. These would best be done by region: SE, NE, Atlantic Coast, Upper-Mid W, Mason-Dixon, Mountain, Pacific, and Others. The AFA would be in the Mountain while Navy is in the AC and Army is in the NE.

    Each conference would be split into two sections. The winner of each section would play in a championship game. The 8 conference champs are the only teams eligible to play for the national championship (if you can’t even win your own conf. how can claim to be the best team in the nation?) in a 3 game play off.

    With only 7 conference games there would be weekends available for traditional rivalries to continue to flourish.

    But, I realize that this is a pipe dream. I doubt the stuffed shirts have the cajones to do anything that makes sense let alone takes a dollar out of one of their co-horts pockets.
     
  6. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    As fans, many look at things like the BCS and AQ bowl games. They talk about playoffs and such. But believe it or not, that's not where the money is. Even if the MWC had an equal AQ bowl at full share, it would only come out to about $860,000 for each team in a a 12 team conference. That isn't a lot of money. The AQ however does add strength to negotiations for tv deals. The PAC, Big10/12, ACC, and SEC have all recently redone their tv contracts and they are very good. The big east has a new tv contract coming due this coming spring. And with college football being at an all time high, and them being the only market available for a tv deal coming up, there's the potential for a very good tv deal. And contrary to what many might think, money is important.

    The big12 option is off the table. We already turned it down. But yes, our football would have had no problem competing in the Big-12. We're never going to be a perennial conference champion. No academy will. But air force could handle being in the big-12. Their players are much bigger that any other team we play. Most teams we play have average 300+LB lineman on the team. We Air Force, Navy, and Army see that every week. But our other sports definitely wouldn't have been able to handle a Big-12 schedule. A football only invite to the big-12 would have been perfect; but the big-12 only offered us an all-sports invite. So air force turned it down.

    The goal was for army to join navy and air force in the big east. That would have been awesome. Hopefully that can still be an option in the future. But Air Force and Navy will benefit from being in the big-east. A Fan's perspective may be different, but from a business perspective it works. And money does matter, and the MWC hasn't taken care of their teams when it comes to negotiating contracts and selling the product. I think the MWC has been a great conference, but moving is the smart move. And being independent was nice, but teams are going to have to go to conferences to survive. Air Force realized in 1980. Navy is realizing it now. Army will come around. Even Notre Dame is considering it.
     
  7. sprog

    sprog Member

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    Isn't Navy also going to the Big East (football only)? I heard that on the radio yesterday and it surprised me a bit. Well, I heard they were invited to join, at any rate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Yes; the invite is for Air Force, Navy, Boise State, Houston, SMU, and Central Florida. They still are working on one more team to get to 12 teams. I think they would still like army. BYU is also in the discussion. As are temple and memphis.
     
  9. rkrosnar

    rkrosnar Member

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    The Service Academies going to the Big East may be a mistake, but I am not sure. First and foremost college athletics are big business now and not just for fun anymore. That's one reason I enjoy watching and following academy sports programs. These guys have a very clear understanding they are not there to play a sport and turn pro. They go on to be officer, then after their commitment they can maybe turn pro. In some instances, some of these guys can get approval to go pro right after school, but it's rare. Air Force should probably go to the Big 12, but then what happens to the rivals with the two other SA's. Can you just imagine AF traveling to the East Coast every other week or so. It would not be that bad for Navy, then there is West Point, which seems to be totally left out. Maybe, they wanted that way. This is only the tip of the iceberg of this discussion.

    RGK
     
  10. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    D1, yes. D3, no. :wave:

    Money drives everything in D1 football, even at the D1 service academies.
     
  11. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Of a 12 game season; 6 games are at home. 3 other teams are somewhat local: Boise, Houston, and SMU (No difference than playing Boise, San Diego, or TCU). We play navy and army anyway. Basically; air force would be looking at traveling back east 3 or 4 times a season. That's all. And with airplanes, it's not a big difference in time flying to most of those eastern cities. When you consider that this year, we traveled to Maryland (Navy), Notre Dame, Boise Idaho; and next year Hawaii,,,, is there really a difference. Something else many forget to is that we'll still have 4 OOC games. We can still pull off away games that aren't far to travel. Some can even be with long time rivals like wyoming, csu, or UNM. In reality, we'll only be traveling back east (Not counting army/navy), about 3 times a year. That's not unreasonable.
     
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Yeah, but with a few exceptions D3 ball is like watching high school football. The moral victory of watching D3 doesn't make up it for most fans.

    Let's not be too naive. Money drives damn near everything at a college, and to a large degree at the Academies as well. The folks who say it doesn't do so mostly because they have less of it to worry about.
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    As is watching Army D1 football. :wink:
     
  14. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I personally don't get how people are fans of college teams unless they have some connection to the school. I get how graduates, parents, and prospective students are interested. After that, it baffles me. I went to a big SEC school for my law degree, and I could never fathom why so many people who didn't go to the school could care about the team. But they do, and that is why football is king at those places.

    Why do they watch? Is it for regional pride? Is it to see people at the top of their game? If so, I think it's misguided. Indeed, city/regional pride and the allure of watching the best talent in the nation are why we watch football on Sundays.
     
  15. BobBigBoy

    BobBigBoy Member

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    My DD was recruited as an athlete this year and there were many reasons why she decided to choose the USAFA. One of the reasons was that, now that Reno and Fresno have joined the MWC, there would be a trip to California and/or Reno/Las Vegas probably every year. Being from California, that appealed to us in that we could at least see her play once a year. We would be happy with WCC or Big Sky but I read in the Denver Post that it is probably Missouri Valley Conference for the "olympic sports." That would be awful and I think would be a big negative for recruiting in the soccer/volleyball/swimming, heck all of the sports, rich field of California. Recruiting in the Midwest is a lot different than attracting athletes from the large population base in California. It wouldn't have been a deal breaker if we had known about a possible move to the Missouri Valley Conference but I am really bummed out about it now. She was heavily recruited by many schools in the West but wants to attend the USAFA bad!

    By the way, did you see what Geno Auriemma, the UCONN women's basketball coach said about Notre Dame? He said if football had joined the Big East instead of going independent, they wouldn't be having a problem right now. Going independent would be a wrong decision in this mega conference age.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011
  16. buffalo

    buffalo USAFA 2013

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    Just curious, if AF were to accept the move to the Big East, has there been any talk about when the transition would take place? i.e. Next year, two years out...
     
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    I think that's where you're wrong. There is no reason for watching pro sports over college sports if you do so out of regional pride. How on earth do any of those mercenary athletes, who will happily jump ship to a new team for more money, represent a city? They have no connection to the team beyond a paycheck.

    Coming from Ohio, where you're a Buckeye fan or you're a blasphemer, I get it. Heck, on OSU's starting lineup, they generally have about 18 or 19 kids from Ohio. You can't say they don't represent a region.
     
  18. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    While sports are important to the academies, they aren't the number one priority. And while I would hope that even an athlete wouldn't choose a military academy based on sports over serving, I do understand that some people do have different priorities. But remember; for every person that might choose the air force academy because of the MWC and the states associated with it, we also have athletes from Georgia, Florida, Minnesota, New York, Virginia, etc... Basically; where we play vs recruiting athletes isn't really important; nor should it be. We get our athletes from all over the country.

    As for the Missouri Valley; they said a few weeks ago that they were not in the market to expand at this time. Air Force's non-football sports will most likely go to either the WAC, WCC, Big Sky, etc... MVC isn't really an option.
     
  19. BobBigBoy

    BobBigBoy Member

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    That is a relief and makes more sense as the other conferences are certainly in more of a regional proximity to the USAF. As I said in the post, it was a piece of the entire pie but not a deal breaker. The education, service and opportunity to play D1 are all important. You have to understand that playing in college was always her goal too. The fact that it was close to California was a plus but she would have gone there if it was in Maine. She is so excited to be a part of this awesome opportunity...we are too!
     
  20. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I dunno. I think the loyalty is to the franchise more than the players. I grew up, and still live, in the DC metro region. I work in downtown DC. Damn near the only thing the Washington Post cares about are the Skins (maybe the Caps too, since they have had some success). They write about it because that's what readers have an interest in. I love them, but the Redskins haven't been relevant in years. Doesn't matter here. The stadium still sells out. There is quite a bit of regional pride, even if it is just a shared sense of misery or nostalgia for the glory days. I also like that the NFL game is faster and more hard-hitting than the college game. The players are the best in the sport.

    I think "mercenary" is a bit of a harsh term. They are professionals who are paid for their talents. One could certainly conclude that they are overpaid, but the market seems to support it. The days of players having any loyalty to a city are certainly long gone because of the money, but in that regard it isn't different from most businesses. If I left one law firm to work at another that paid me more, am I a mercenary? It certainly is for the money, so I guess I could be. I think it would make me like most people. As such, I can't fault the players. The NFL is a business, but so are big D1 college programs. The coaches are also millionaires there, and many follow the bucks (not everyone is Joe Paterno).

    I think your perspective as a native Ohioan might be different than mine as someone from the DC area. In my area, college sports tend to take a backseat to the pros. We have several colleges with "name" programs (Navy, UMD, Georgetown in basketball, possibly UVA and VT can be counted as near DC), but the supporters tend to have some connection with the schools. I know a couple of guys with Terps season tickets, but they are alums. There is some college coverage in the newspapers, but right now that focuses on trashing Randy Edsall. It is somewhat entertaining, even though I could care less about UMD's football team.

    In Big 10 and SEC country, college sports are king. That probably forms at least some part of our different outlook on the matter.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011

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