Field Training Selection 2012

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by AirForceTrojan, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. AirForceTrojan

    AirForceTrojan New Member

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    I'm a non-tech cadet, double majoring in International Relations, and Middle East Studies, going up for an EA this year.
    Overall my GPA is 3.47 at USC (Southern California, not S. Carolina)
    MY SATs were pretty good, around 1950, ACT was 30, and my AFOQT scores were Pilot: 82, Navigator: 87, Aptitude: 93, Verbal: 86, Quantative: 91.
    My PFA score was 95.2.
    I'm also pretty involved around the Det with Arnold Air and have held a couple of jobs in the wing.
    I'm not entirely sure what my Commanders ranking was, but I know the POC ranked me about 14 out 20, during their meeting before the week before applications were sent off (but personally I feel I should have been higher). Our Det Commander has final say over the final ranks, but thats the closest estimation I have of my ranking, and I'm hoping he bumped me up a couple spots before they sent off the EA applications.

    I'm wondering what my chances look like this year for getting selected, especially since I've heard things about adding another encampment, and several more slots, as well as reducing the number of tech majors they'll take this year, and reducing the weight of the commanders ranking in the selection process. (If anyone can provide confirmation of any of that, I would appreciate it)

    My friends in the POC keep telling me not to worry and I feel like I should be selected and would do well at FT, but I'm a little nervous because my ranking wasn't as high as I would have liked it to be, and this will be my second year competing for an EA, so if I don't get it, my AFROTC career will be over.

    Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Why did you get bottom 1/3?

    You have great stats regarding cgpa, and AFOQT.

    My issue regarding chances is that you were passed over as a 200, and still you are in the bottom 1/3rd.

    There is a disconnect here, without knowing why as a 500 you are still in the bottom chancing you is not something anyone should do in a good conscious. To get this 2nd chance for SFT, and still not qualify in top 1/3 begs the question why?
     
  3. AirForceTrojan

    AirForceTrojan New Member

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    I'm not sure why I ended up ranked there. I thought I was doing much better than that, and feel like I should have been a few spots higher than that. Last year my PFA score was much lower, around 86-87, which my cadre told me was one of the reasons I got passed over, so this year I got it up, and was working on my ranking as well which I thought was doing much better than it apparently was. The rankings that I mentioned though are put together by the POC at our det, they arent necessarily the final rankings although I think our cadre will look at them when they make the final decisions, but I dont know how much wight it will carry with them. Our cadre held interviews with all of the 200s seeking an EA the LLAB before applications were sent off, and I feel like I did well in the interview but havn't had a chance to get feedback from them yet. I'm hoping that I did well enough there that they would bump me up a couple of spots at least into the middle third, but I dont know yet. I want to go in and see if I can get feedback from them sometime this week and then I might know more.
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Just in an effort to learn about how other ROTC programs work could I ask you a question.

    What is a POC.

    If the OP said they were 14 out of 20 by Army math that would put him at 70% if it was done per the Army's OML, which I know is different. In the AF world how does being at the 70% place him in the bottom 1/3.

    My guess would be that he is not ranked 14th out of 20, rather on a list of 20 cadets he is actually #6 or #7, would that be the right assumption.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Quick question.

    Did your CC, not POC do an end of semester review with you?

    Here's the thing you can be bottom 1/3rd for your POC, and still be top 1/3rd in the det. Reason why is simple. You are placed into flights and you may be in the VARSITY flight. Additionally your POC may be more hard core than Flight Bravo, Charlie or Delta.

    Don't freak at this point. No offense to the POC, (my DS is one), but an O6 is going to take their rec, and listen more to the ADAF Instructors as a guide. POC is training to get ready for AD, they are 20 yrs old, no O6 will make a judgment based purely on their rec.

    Finally your POC had no voice with AFROTC HQ or your CC last yr. when you were not selected. The CC put their name out on the line to allow you to go to 500. You have stated you were horrendous for the PFT, but you have now proven yourself by getting a 95+ which is an amazing increase within a yr.

    Your true issue is like ADAF when it comes to promotions. You are above zone. Once above zone, it is harder to make it.

    Right now all you can do is keep doing what you are doing.

    You can worry about this 24/7, but it won't change the results. What will happen is it will change you personally because this is on your mind.

    You get it, GREAT! You don't get it, GREAT TOO.

    Silly to say that, right? The reason why it is great too is because of a song by Garth Brooks. "I thank God for unanswered prayers". You don't know what life has in store for you. 20 yrs from now, you will have a wife, and children; something you wouldn't have or trade for the AF. That was your path all along; you were trying to force it.

    Will you have regrets if not selected? Hell Yeah! Ask your folks if they have a regret at their age, and they will say YES too!

    It is not about the "what if's" that will make you a success in life. It is about what you do as a person when you failed to meet those goals. Do you run away and lick your wounds, or do you pull yourself up and fight.

    You will be a success because you fought for you!
     
  6. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Professional Officer Corp (Juniors & Seniors that have successfully completed SFT)
    On a list of 20 he is actually 14th from the top. 13 cadets are ranked ahead of him according to his POC reviewers. As Pima said, what really matters is where his Detachment Commander ranks him within the detachment. S/He may choose to disregard the POC ranking altogether or give it very little weight. In my daughter's detachment the POC ranking was done like a popularity contest with your fellow 200s "ranking" you. Not (IMHO) a very realistic approach to actual future AD AF evaluations and one which may not have much overall effect on the Commanders recommendation.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Thanks for the information.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree with agagles, some 300's will do it like a popularity contest, especially if some of the cadets are in their military fraternity and the others are not.

    I also agree that most CC's, at least good ones will not place much weight from the FCC's perspective. There is a reason why for this. In the end of the day he/she is not just in it to train the cadets, but every AD member that reports to him will be impacted by his decisions.

    AFROTC is typically not the dream desk job for career promotion, unless it is at a top tier college, like an SMC or a powerhouse like PSU, Notre Dame, etc.

    If he allows favoritism to play into the equation, that will impact the selection rate. There is a debate out there right now if they have changed the % TY from LY, but either way more than 35% of the score comes from the CC's rec. Placing a lower cgpa candidate with an equal PFT would cause for him to have a justification, and he will look at the Instructors for guidance in this issue. Instructors are typically O3/O4s, they understand the ADAF promotion system, and that is how they approach this issue.

    He has to place into this equation that if they place up a lower quality cadet, the det may have below the national avg selection rate. This than places his AD staffs careers in jeopardy when it comes to their own promotions, or next job. Hard for an O4 to fight for an O5 promotion when you are an integral part of a det that is sub par in the selection rate. Conversely if the selection rate is above the rate, and they are nationally recognized as one of the best units, it would be reflected in the bullets on the OPR and the board would see that immediately. That is his goal for his AD members. He also knows it will help in recruiting more cadets to be able to say they have a higher success rate for SFT than the national avg.

    That is why both agagles and I are saying, don't worry if the FCC stated to you you were the bottom 1/3rd. It comes back to the CC because if you have 5 flights, with 4 200/500 is in each flight, maybe the other 3 are number 1,2,3 in the whole det., and you could be number 4, 5 or 6.

    I am not going to lie and say it is easier as a 500 compared to a 200, but every yr there are 500's that go to SFT. The problem the AFROTC HQ board will think with a 500 is, why take them over a 200? LY they didn't meet the cut, is it fair to that 200 to risk it on you over them? Basically creating the same issue next yr with that 200 when they now become a 500.

    This may also be why in your FCC's mind he placed you on the bottom 1/3. They may feel you had the chance last yr., and didn't get it, give it to someone else. However, remember as an FCC he may not know or place into the decision that the reason why was a very, very low (rock bottom) PFT. You have corrected that issue, and now the CC will step in and override his ranking.

    Jcleppe,

    The real big deal here is if he does not go this yr., he will be dis-enrolled and will not commission. This is not like a 200, where the CC can ask AFROTCHQ to waive him allow another yr, where he would be a 500. It is equivalent to a promotion board, this APZ, and like the AD world he is gone.
     
  9. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Hopefully balanced/offset by the above is that the AFROTC HQ board will recognize that your CC must have seen something positive in you that s/he chose to allow you to continue another year as a 500. Not everyone gets that "second" chance and not all of those that are offered it accept it. That in addition to your rising PFT score and your obvious desire to commission AF by committing another year to the program may help your chances.

    Good Luck!:thumb:
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree, and that is why I have stated, for the clarification, did the FCC rank you bottom 1/3rd or the CC.

    The CC put their name on the line with AFROTCHQ when he allowed him to become a 500. Not every 200 will become a 500, these cadets basically go through a waiver process. The CC saw something in him, and I highly doubt he will be swayed by the 300's rec when it comes to ranking, especially since he increased his PFT by 9 pts. The CC told him his weakness was PFT. A 95 isn't stellar, but it is when you take them from an 86, and by SFT he might be a 97 or 98.

    I know at DS's det. that C500's with his stats would most likely go, but, and this is a BIG but, his school is slightly above the national avg. We still do not know what the rate of selection is from his school. His AFOQT is not bad at all. His cgpa is strong, add in the fact Middle East Studies to that equation.

    I highly doubt USC had below the national avg. selection rate.

    If I were him, I would privately contact cadets that were 500's and selected for SFT LY. It will give him more insight. If the CC changed over this yr., I would also expect whatever the last CC stated is not something to assume the new CC will follow.
     
  11. cman

    cman New Member

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    2012 FT

    quick question on my chances

    GPA non tech. 3.2
    Sat 24
    PFA 96%
    Commander Ranking. 3 of 28
     
  12. JeRDLe

    JeRDLe Member

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    congrats, with today's numbers, you've made it.
     
  13. AirForceTrojan

    AirForceTrojan New Member

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    What are the numbers? I havnt heard anything from my cadre yet, other than we should know who got them by this week.
     
  14. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    You should read the other thread on the same topic. Most people who have posted expect to hear either today or tomorrow.
     
  15. AirForceTrojan

    AirForceTrojan New Member

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    I realize that. I'm expecting to hear by friday at our next LLAB, but from what JeRDLe said, it sounded like he had some statistics about them even if he didnt know specifics.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Several CC's have told their units the overall avg.

    JeRDLe was IMPO giving anecdotal info, however, since there were multiple posters stating the same thing from their CC I would assume it is true. On the other thread, a poster stated it was 100% acceptance.
     

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