From the Alumni about Greene

Status
Not open for further replies.
If you read the Blog entry by Secy Ray LaHood, Adm Greene's experience at the Naval Academy was invaluable to his ability to run Kings Point and was instrumental in how the Admiral hit the ground running once at KP. To follow that logic then, the skills that Adm Greene learned from the leaders at the Naval Academy were being brought to bear at Kings Point. Why then were those same attitudes, skill sets, and leadership abilities appropriate for running another academy, by not appropriate for running the Merchant Marine Academy?

One would assume that the leadership at the Naval Academy were consulted when Adm. Greene was being considered for the job and that he received the highest recommendation from that institution as to his ability to run USMMA. Were their recommendations and evaluations incorrect, misinformed or misleading?
 
Exactly when did respectfully expressing one's self to those within a group with shared interests and concerns or to elected or appointed officials or civil servants become subject to censorship?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, no one is suggesting that people cannot show their support for RADM Greene in this forum. Or, if some have opposing views, to air those. Stating opinions in a civil and respectful way is fine.

What isn't permitted is soliciting participation in "letter writing campaigns" or similar activities. There are undoubtedly other venues more appropriate for such activities.
 
Amazing stuff. Never ... ever ... underestimate the stupidity and arrogance that is Washington, D.C. Nor, the "special" interest groups that infect and, yes, I mean infect) the entire place.

I believe a whistle blower suit may well in order.
 
To me the real disappointment related to the reassignment of RADM Greene is that in the wake of the issues with Stewart, MARAD and DOT instituted a corporate model with essentially the MARAD Administrator as the CEO; the Supe as the COO and an independant chain avenue to the CEO for the CFO and the Chief Human Resource Officer in addition to the Legal Consul.

However, speaking from experience here in industry and after having been part of three senior management teams in the corporate world - including my current postion, for such a model to work well there needs to be mutual respect, mutual/equal support of all key particpants and a tolerance for constructive conflict amongst these different perspectives/roles & responsibilities. Unfortunately, it appears to me this has not been able to happen or develop at the USMMA through either the short tenures of RADM Worley USMS or now RADM Greene. I really don't have enough insight to even intelligently speculate why this is the case. Of course an easy answer is industry is not Government or vice versa, so it may be unreasonable to expect comon or similar organizational paradigms to work in both domains. I will say this though having lived these situations here in industry for the past 15 years in leadership/senior leadership positions, making it work here in industry is often no easier than making a marriage work.

In the end it looks like perhaps Phil Greene '78, in addition to the Members of current Regiment are the casualties, at least in the short term.

Finally perhaps tragic thought on the subject - for a guy like me, who recalls part of the Class of 2012's plebe year, at least in my own case, feeling compelled to explain to a then younger than now man, with a strong moral compass that while they were good men, the immediate prior Admiral and Adminstration had basically walked down a "road to hell" while paving it with good intentions. In other words, even "good people" can and do make wrong and in retrospect stupid choices. However, he shouldn't despair or think less of the institution. Now here we are 3 1/3 years later and basically what will be 5 leadership changes (if you count the this as the third time Dean Kumar has taken the helm) later and even I don't know what to say, especially to my own son, other than keep your head down, do as good a "job" as you can, and graduate - there are good things ahead. Of course these statements are generally accepted, without further ado, at this juncture of the Class of 2012's time on "those stately shores at my strife borne Alma Mater, even though the audience and I both know they do not answer even 1/4 of their legitimate questions. Small consolation that we as parents can now look at all this tumult as great life training for our daughters and sons and be confident in the knowledge they understand how to survive and thrive in even the most trying of times. So in addition to being disappointed that somehing like RADM Greene's appointment that promised so much hope on my part for long term good things for my Alma Mater; I am disappointed by my inability to offer my son and his classmates any good advice or lessons they should be taking away from all this let alone comforting thoughts when some are clearly negatively affected.
 
Last edited:
Real world

As my DD who graduated in June, 2011 said, "Mom its the REAL world and the REAL world is full of imperfect men/women and politics......the REAL world is most of the time VERY UGLY and UN JUST!!!!" STILL it breaks my heart now as it did when I was there......We CAN'T loose the GOOD of USMMA....we just can't."

What more could I say? Life stinks!! Situations stink!! Just saying..... Jasperdog..you put it so much better than I...please refer back to his comments.
 
Most of us sent children with a well developed sense of right and wrong to Kings Point. These values were one reason our children were admitted to the Academy. In spite of adults acting badly (think honor code - no cadet shall lie, cheat or steal), it is still our responsibility as parents to remind our mids of the values we sent them to Kings Point with. Kings Point cannot instill these values if we haven't already done our job. It's disappointing when our children have to become "less innocent" and realize that some adults are just plain bad people, regardless of their positions. We thought most life lessons would be experienced by our children at sea (they will be adults when they return from sea year), but they are learning that some life lessons are hard at home too.

They are also learning to become discriminating - to align themselves with people who share their values. We can only hope that right wins out and the narcissistic individuals who put themselves first and are willing to sacrifice good people for their own ends will be recognized for who and what they are. In the meantime, we should continue to reinforce and model good behavior for our children and hold them to that standard. Integrity was one quality which drew our children to Kings Point - we pray that standard is upheld.

Also, thank you to the staff at Kings Point who are trying to keep our children focused and attending to their studies.

God Bless Admiral Greene!!
 
1969E said:
Exactly when did respectfully expressing one's self to those within a group with shared interests and concerns or to elected or appointed officials or civil servants become subject to censorship?

How disappointing. How wrong.

Now that I realize this site is "edited" I think I will pass. But not without asking on the way to the exit door how an edited set of facts is a "service"?

Disrespectful or discourteous postings should undeniably be deleted---all I have seen are strong opinions and encouragement to act in the Institution's best interests---possibly subject to legitimate disagreement but neither the proper object of censorship.

Just one more sad development in a string of many.
Click to expand...

You must follow their rules. Any post(s) outside the rules will be deleted. You have been informed.

**EDITED**
 
Last edited by a moderator:
2013Parent said:
You must follow their rules. Any post(s) outside the rules will be deleted. You have been informed.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, yeah.

In order to post here, you have to agree to the Forum rules. This is a wholly private enterprise and you are under no obligation to post if you disagree with them. The Mods have final say on what is or is not a rule violation.

First Amendment protections do not apply, as there is no government actor involved in restricting the publication of your opinion. If you want to share an opinion that is against the forum rules, you can find another site. To that extent, there is no "censorship," only a determination of what is or is not inside the rules. You are free to disagree with their interpretation, but they have final say. Again, if you find the Mods to be too arbitrary or the rules unjustified, you can find another place to post.

I don't mean to sound like an ass, but those are the guidelines we all agreed to when we signed up for SAF.
 
Need The Facts

Default Re: King's Point Superintendent Reassigned... and MARAD has NOTHING to say about it

TIMELINE OF EVENTS:

Here's the printed info from the Alumni & Foundation Association meeting at the Academy yesterday...

Sun. Aug. 14: e-mail from Ray LaHood: "Admiral Greene, Congrats on a great opening day ceremony. You have much to be proud of even in the short time at the helm. We are grateful for your service and willingness to continue to serve and rebulid the MMA. Best, Ray LaHood."

Fri., Sept. 2: Parents Weekend with attendance by Orlando Gotay, Deputy Maritime Administrator. Admiral Greene learns that Gotay is hosting an evening get-together with a number of Midshipmen at the house of Commander Mund. He learns that these get togethers have been going on for a couple of years.

Tues., Sept. 6: Admiral Greene advises John Porcari, Deputy Secretary of Transportation of Gotay's fraternizing with Midshipmen on his visits to the Academy. Porcari expresses outrage and comments that "this is actionable".

Thurs., Sept. 8: A conference call is held between the Foundation (Hill and Dombrowski), Admiral Greene and MARAD/DOT (Matsuda and several lawyers from MARAD and DOT) on the Strategic Plan. Agreement on all outstanding issues is reached, with DOT lawyers pushing Masuda to acceptance. A DOT lawyer volunteers to re-draft the documents to reflect the agreement.

Mon. Sept. 12, 4:57 PM: Wondering why the documents have not been quickly turned around, Admiral Greene sends the following e-mail to Judy Kaleta, the DOT lawyer: "Judy, I appreciate your effort to move things forward. Are we close to a documenbt to review? Thanks for your engagement on this project".

Mon. Sept. 12, 7:22 PM: Judy Kaleta responded with the following: " Hi Phil, we're close. Inches from the goal line. I shared with the Administrator first. He asked me to make a change and I have to do that tonight. I'm on a plane now but should be able to get to it when I land. I know everyday is important. I will do my best to keep you posted. Judy".

Mon. Sept. 12, 8:56 PM: Admiral Greene responded with the following: "Judy, many thanks for your kind reply. This has been a journey of its own. Travel safe. Phil"

Tues. Sept. 13, 4:17 PM: When no documents were received during working hours on Tues., Admiral Greene sent the following e-mail to Matsuda (with a cc to Judy Kaleta) : Dave, hope your trip is going well. Do you have a revised document for review? If available, would appreciate your sending along. Thanks! Phil.

Tues. Sept. 13, 4:28 PM: Matsuda immediately sent the following reply: Phil - I thought I forwarded you something yesterday, but will double check. I am good with it. Judy-can you send the final to Phil?"

Wed., Sept. 14: Nothing happens.

Thurs, Sept. 15, 8:07 AM: Admiral Greene sends the following e-mail to Matsuda: "Dave, know you have been on travel, but was hoping to see the turn-around of the document to Charlie Hill and Ray Dombrowski occur soonest. Last week all concerned expressed a sense of urgency to keep this moving so just trying to keep this on the front burner. Thanks"

Thurs, Sept. 15, 8:10 AM: Masuda repokes immediately with: "Agreed. We shoud be able to get back today.:

Thurs., Sept. 15, late afternoon: Admiral Greene is told he is to attend a meeting at 4:30 PM the following day at Ray LaHood's office to discuss the Strategic Plan. We speculate that he is gathering everyone together to ensure a willingness to work toward the common objective.

Fri., Sept. 16: Admiral Greene is advised that Orlando Gotay has tendered his resignation, effective immediately. LaHood states that it had been decided at a meeting the previous day to reject the Strategic Plan gift from the Foundation. Admiral Greene asks for a one on one with LaHood which is granted. Admiral Greene discovers that Lahood has been misinformed (told that the Foundation gift was an "outsourcing" of the SP). LaHood agrees to reconsider the decision and get back to him on Monday.

Lahood goes on to criticize Matsuda, saying that Matsuda never should have put Gotay in charge of overseeing the Academy and, if Matsuda didn't get his act together quickly, he (Lahood) would assume oversight himself. Admiral Greene expresses his own frustration with MARAD and states he would welcome the change.

LaHood praises the job Admiral Greene is doing and asks him to please not walk away---LaHood needs him and will get things straightened out.

Mon./Tues. Sept. 19/20: Nothing is heard from LaHood.

Mon., Sept. 19: An anonymous hate letter is sent to MARAD, DOT, MJ, Newsday, et al accusing Admiral Greene, certain staff members and Admiral Greene's wife of improprieties.

Thurs., Sept. 22: As if on cue, Matsuda and five staffers descend on the Academy to look into the charges.

Fri., Sept 23: Admiral Greene goes to DC for the Silver Star presentation and is told by Porcari that he needs to take the same decisive action on the anonymous letter that Porcari took with Gotay.

Mon./Tues./Wed., Sept. 26,27,28: MARAD staffers continue investigations.

Fri., Sept 30: Jerry Rehm is told by Denise Krepp that the decision on the Strategic Plan is on hold.

Mon., Oct. 2: Admiral Greene learns that the Strategic Plan assignment had been awarded to Price Waterhouse the previous Friday (the same day Krepp was telling Jerry Rehm that it was on hold). He is informed that Porcari and Matsuda would be visiting him at the Academy the following day, Tuesday.

Tues., Oct. 3: Porcari and Matsuda visit with Admiral Greene and present him with an insulting and inflammatory letter of termination. Admiral Greene asks to meet with LaHood and a meeting in DC is arranged for 7:30 AM the following day.

Wed., Oct. 4: The meeting is held in Porcari's office. LaHood enters and is barely civil, briefly stating tha a change is needed. Admiral Greene states his case that this move is a mistake for many reasons. LaHood states that they feel they are making the right decision and leaves the office after stating that if Admiral Greene agrees to resign they could offer a package he might like. Porcari explains the package (a 12 month assignment to the National Defense University as the Transportation Chair) and advises Admiral Greene that the inflammatory letter of dismissal would be withdrawn if he accepts.

Share on Facebook
 
NY Times Article from 1990- Need The Facts

Gay Annapolis Graduate in Tuition Dispute
AP
Published: September 25, 1990

* Sign In to E-Mail
* Print

A 1987 graduate of the United States Naval Academy who says he was forced to quit the Navy because of his homosexuality is refusing demands that he pay for his education.

The Navy wants the academy graduate, Orlando Gotay, to pay $22,949 in tuition because he resigned before completing the five years of service required of graduates. Mr. Gotay, who lives in San Francisco, told The Annapolis Capital last week that he would not pay because the Navy put pressure on him to get out early.

The 26-year-old former officer was serving aboard the guided missile cruiser Belknap, the flagship of the Sixth Fleet, when he learned in June 1989 that he was under investigation for homosexuality.

The inquiry did not prove any sexual misconduct, although Mr. Gotay acknowledges that he is homosexual. The armed forces prohibit homosexuals from military service.
 
If I'm reading correctly "between the lines," I think I'm starting to understand the sensitivity on this topic. And yes, this is a private forum - and the administrators can make the rules.
 
Need The Facts

I think I have some facts as to what started RADM Greene' problems.

Now I would like to learn more about the anonymous letter to Newsday that resulted in MARAD sending investigators to King's Point?

Not sure yet if this is independent of Mr Gotay abruptly resigning after RADM Greene objected to the fraternizing with certain Mids last month when he visited the area...

I am just looking for the truth, just I always do. Not interested in rumor or mudslinging. Thx
 
NYBear you sound like a reporter the way you phrased that. How far off am I?
 
Agree with NYBEAR - My Questions

At this point in the saga, here are my questions, based on the posted "TIMELINE OF EVENTS":

1) Who's Commander Mund? What's his role? He never is mentioned apart from being the host home for the Gotay fratting event.

2) Is the author of the "anonymous hate letter" known - even if not revealed to the larger constituency? Has anyone seen it? How credible were the accusations contained therein?

3) Why, when the business of the Academy with regard to the Strategic Plan seemed to be a continually dropped ball between Sept. 8th and 16th, was Matsuda able to rally a five person team to launch an ad hoc investigation within a matter of a couple of days based on an anonymous hate letter?

4) How did Matsuda and team go about their 4-5 day inquiry (Sept. 22-28)? What precisely did they conclude? How credible are those conclusions?

5) Porcari and LaHood, formerly effusive Greene supporters, appear to have developed a full turn in attitude towards Adm. Greene between Sept. 23rd and Oct. 3rd. What changed their minds?

6) What's the status of the Strategic Plan now that the Academy is again without a permanent Superintendent? Is PriceWaterhouse moving forward with their consulting project, or is that now also back on hold?

7) Why is Matsuda, who seems to be a lightning rod for criticism within the industry and from the Academy stakeholders, emerging essentially unchallenged and unscathed in the Timeline of Events?
 
Yellow Rose said:
At this point in the saga, here are my questions, based on the posted "TIMELINE OF EVENTS":....

7) Why is Matsuda, who seems to be a lightning rod for criticism within the industry and from the Academy stakeholders, emerging essentially unchallenged and unscathed in the Timeline of Events?
Click to expand...

Administrator Matsuda is a Presidential Appointee who has successfully run the gauntlet of Congressional Confirmation Hearings and perhaps this excerpt from his official biography from MARAD's website might give some insight to where his base of support lies:
"...Mr. Matsuda served as the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Acting Assistant Secretary for Transportation Policy from March 2009 until his appointment as Deputy. Prior to that, he spent seven years on Capitol Hill. While working in the U.S. Senate, Mr. Matsuda was engaged in the formulation and debate of most major Federal transportation legislation as senior counsel and primary transportation advisor to U.S. Senator Frank R. Lautenberg of New Jersey.


In 2002, Mr. Matsuda became a Georgetown University Government Affairs Institute Fellow serving on the staff of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation. ..."
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top