Getting Out

[usna1985]

Folks . . . this is veering way off the OP's question. He/she has made a decision that USNA is not for him/her. Better to realize it now than later.

When you accept a Foundation scholarship, I believe you sign something to the effect of, if you leave USNA voluntarily, you have to pay back the amount the Foundation contributed to your scholarship. This is unrelated to whatever costs you have incurred at USNA.

The reason for this is that Foundation scholarships are largely (if not entirely) underwritten by alums. That is real money paid to the Foundation school. The Foundation doesn't get it back. Their view (legit, IMO), is that, if you don't fulfill your part of the bargain, they want to be able to use that money for a future student. If that's the agreement you make, be prepared to live up to it -- as the OP is doing.

As to the OP's question, I'm not aware of a repayment plan, but I suggest consulting the Foundation directly. They're not your enemy. This stuff happens and I'm sure you're not the first person who doesn't have $8k in his freezer.

As for all of the other discussion on this thread . . . knock it off. It is demeaning to refer to NAPS/Foundation students as "sub standard." They need additional academic or other prep. Often, that is due to circumstances beyond their control. NAPS/Foundation prepares them well to compete equally with direct appointments. After about a week at USNA, no one even remembers who came through NAPS/Foundation and who came directly.

 

[Whistle Pig]

1985 ...with all respect for your efforts, your wise good counsel offered at right prices, please allow a challenge to one of your notions.

You note: "Often that is due to circumstances beyond their control."

In fact, you might be right. But I am confident that is speculation, as your knowing that would go beyond the boundaries of privacy. Please, let's not speculate about the "victims" being sent to NAPS, or even allege they are. They are not. In fact, for whatever reasons, they are being given one of the greatest of opportunties. Any victims are those many candidates superior to NAPS and foundation students who are given outright thin letters. Thousands of super candidates would have loved for a NAPS year. They are clearly academically deficient. As to the "why's?" At least this part of your response may be equally as inappropriate as those your calling to correction. Please, leave the PC for others, as you've always done in your clear and fair responses.

 

[MakeItHappen]

WARNING !!

WARNING!!


Another hijacked thread containing misinformation.

 

[Memphis9489]

After about a week at USNA, no one even remembers who came through NAPS/Foundation and who came directly.

I don't know about this "Foundation", but I disagree about everybody forgetting who was a Napster or not. Napsters tend to be a very closely knit group and they can be rather clique-ish - often keeping their same Napster friends for the entire four years spent at the academy.

I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad thing - I'm just saying that, unlike other things that are quickly forgotten or never even discussed, NAPS origins is not one of them. I can tell you every one of my company-mates who came from NAPS, and I graduated over 30 years ago. A disproportionate number of them never graduated - at least in my company.

Of course, that was back in the days where attrition could aptly be characterized as "carnage." Most of the attrition was academic related. Nowadays, they actually have midshipmen who take summer school for all three summer blocks and never experience their "Youngster Cruise" or "Protramid." As you know (even back in your day), that kind of administrative "patience" did not exist.

 

[Mongo]

Of course, that was back in the days where attrition could aptly be characterized as "carnage." Most of the attrition was academic related.

This was also back in the day when basically the only source of commissioning for enlisted was USNA. Therefore, NAPS was predominately ex-fleet. There was a multitude of recognized reasons that they chose not to continue, not all of them Academic. And you are correct, even with our abysmal pass-fail ratio, NAPSters was worse. And I also agree, once a NAPSter, always a NAPSter.

With STA-21 now the primary pipeline of enlisted to the officer corps, I would probably question a sailor's headwork for chosing USNA over a civilian school.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

When you accept a Foundation scholarship, I believe you sign something to the effect of, if you leave USNA voluntarily, you have to pay back the amount the Foundation contributed to your scholarship. This is unrelated to whatever costs you have incurred at USNA.

The reason for this is that Foundation scholarships are largely (if not entirely) underwritten by alums. That is real money paid to the Foundation school. The Foundation doesn't get it back. Their view (legit, IMO), is that, if you don't fulfill your part of the bargain, they want to be able to use that money for a future student. If that's the agreement you make, be prepared to live up to it -- as the OP is doing.

If this is true - that is you do not graduate from USNA then they should cease calling it a scholarship and call it a loan.
The sad thing is --- the 'scholarships' are need based. Each Academy runs their own program but $8000 is quite a chunk of need. If this Mid got $8000 from the Foundation then it's safe to say he comes from a family of very limited resources. They most assuredly do not have the money to pay it back.

I would further caution any high school senior who is offered the USNA Foundation program from considering it seriously. The risk is too high.

 

[AF6872]

Second bite of the apple is worth the risk if that is what they want. Most kids only get one bite (unless they apply again each year for the next three years) since they don't qualify for NAPS or Foundation. You take your chances and after all that and one half a semester you want to leave you owe the piper who played the tune. I don't think the Foundation is need based? Their definition says they are "need based" on the amount awarded and I am corrected. Plebe year withdrawal is the only year you have to pay it back.

http://www.usna.com/Document.Doc?id=1074

 

[Mongo]

Nowadays, they actually have midshipmen who take summer school for all three summer blocks and never experience their "Youngster Cruise" or "Protramid." As you know (even back in your day), that kind of administrative "patience" did not exist.

They had summer school back during your day also, just not as widespread and highly advertised. Then, as, I thought, now, it was mostly in lieu of summer leave, not summer cruise. I know a firstie who is going to take an extra semester this year and he has been to summer school every summer and also done all his summer cruises. Maybe abbreviated??

 

[jennyp]

My son (youngster) did a class at summer school this past summer instead of 3 wks leave. His reasoning was to lighten his load this fall....and it has done so. He got in his training blocks and 8 days leave as well.

 

[Memphis9489]

They had summer school back during your day also, just not as widespread and highly advertised. Then, as, I thought, now, it was mostly in lieu of summer leave, not summer cruise. I know a firstie who is going to take an extra semester this year and he has been to summer school every summer and also done all his summer cruises. Maybe abbreviated??

I'm sure that, by far, the most common summer school experience is one block of summer school and forfeiture of any (or most of their) free time during the summer.

Although very rare, I've been told that there are some midshipmen who are so severely behind, and who the academy has deemed so "worthy" and salvageable, that they actually attend summer school for their entire summer at the expense of regularly scheduled military training.

 

[AF6872]

Lucky the Plebe that has a NAPSTER, Prior Service or Military School Foundation as a roommate. They know the drill and help the newbies a lot. They do stick together during I-Day but then again they have been through something together.

 

[Memphis9489]

Lucky the Plebe that has a NAPSTER, Prior Service or Military School Foundation as a roommate.

... during Plebe Summer.

They know the drill and help the newbies a lot.

... marching, close order drill, shoe shining, and many of the Napsters have inside information as to which rates they have to know next - kind of like having a copy of the test in advance. My son, who had a Napster roommate, always knew which rates to study in advance because his Napster roommate had a copy of the rates "syllabus", information that was circulating around NAPS and was made available. It was very helpful. A huge Plebe Summer time saver.

They do stick together during I-Day but then again they have been through something together.

True. That is completely understandable.

But, let's face it, the things the Napsters come prepared with mostly give them a Plebe Summer head start. After Plebe Summer is over and the academic year begins, many of the Napsters find themselves out of their comfort zone and are looking for others to help them in something other than how to make their rack, shine shoes, and how to execute a crisp "about face" maneuver.

The focus then turns to things like the "chain rule" and Avogadro's Number - deficiencies that caused them to go to NAPS in the first place.

In the long run, it all balances out. Everybody has something to offer.

 

[smithneck]

This is a disgrace

I am shocked. There are individuals that worked for years to get a spot at the Academy...dedicated, hard-working. Military life is a commitment. You made it, and now you want to get out, so cough up and pay the price. You took the spot of some kid that would give their right arm for the chance to go. Grow up and pay the bill. Be happy that you won't be flogged by your classmates.

 

[Christcorp]

I am shocked. There are individuals that worked for years to get a spot at the Academy...dedicated, hard-working. Military life is a commitment. You made it, and now you want to get out, so cough up and pay the price. You took the spot of some kid that would give their right arm for the chance to go. Grow up and pay the bill. Be happy that you won't be flogged by your classmates.

Why are you dogging the original poster? In his opening posts, he SPECIFICALLY asked if there was a way to make payments. Unless I missed something; and I admit I didn't read through all the posts, because of the "attitude" I sensed; but I didn't read the poster trying to get out of the payment for his prep-school.

And as far as him wanting to get out: "Good for him". Anyone here who believes that a 17-18 year old should automatically know 100% what they are getting into at an academy, and even if they find that it's not for them, that they SHOULD STAY, "Because there's people who give their right arm"; has a vary narrow minded and naive perception of the academies.

I understand the frustration of a limited slot being filled, and then the individual chooses to leave. But this happens every year, in every class, in every academy. The academies take that into consideration also. Just like airlines, the academies are "OVER-BOOKED". Yes, they are. They can't have, and don't want, 1300 cadets/mids graduating each year. And for those who don't know, at least in the air force, A LOT MORE than the 1300 appointments are offered each year. Closer to 1600-1700. The academy knows that the academy is NOT THE FIRST CHOICE of everyone who applies. There will be those who got accepted and funded to go to Stanford, Yale, Brown, Georgetown, etc... They will turn down their appointments. And as much as you don't like it, not every applicant who accepts an appointment knows exactly what they got into, and can foresee the next 4-9 years. Some realize after 1 semester, that it isn't for them. Then there's some that use the system and wait until the end of the 2nd year, before having to commit to military service. "I think we know of an army cadet recently who did that".

Point is: There is absolutely no reason to be upset with ANY cadet/plebe that decides after being at the academy, that it isn't for them, and they want to leave. I'd rather have that, then a resentful, disrespectful, and miserable officer. And if by chance, all these young men and women had the ability to see into the future, and only those that really wanted it stayed; the academies would accept ONLY around 1000 appointees a year. So the odds haven't changed. But most of all, this individual here, simply asked if there was a way to have a payment plan or similar to pay back his prep-school expenses. What is wrong with that?

And while we're at it, I have seen first hand, as well as others here, applicants who would "Give their right arm" to be at the academy. They received their appointment. They hand the grandest of plans for their future. And within a year, they simply couldn't handle staying there any longer. They just didn't want it like they "THOUGHT" they did.

I hope that someplace in this thread, the original poster had his questions answered.

 

[sweettooth]

I am shocked. There are individuals that worked for years to get a spot at the Academy...dedicated, hard-working. Military life is a commitment. You made it, and now you want to get out, so cough up and pay the price. You took the spot of some kid that would give their right arm for the chance to go. Grow up and pay the bill. Be happy that you won't be flogged by your classmates.

The OP has a right to leave the academy. There is no reason to denigrate the OP. I remember in August 09 then USMA Superintendent Hagenbeck welcoming us parents on A day specifically stating that not all of our sons and daughters would choose to stay at WP and that's okay. We should treat all our cadets and midshipmen with respect and give them information and advice if we know it or direct them to resources to answer their questions if we don't. Surely we on this forum can support young people considering entering our service academies as well as those struggling with the decision to remain by providing them with encouragement and information. To that end, good luck Maverick23 - a student loan isn't the end of the world. Consider talking to the counseling department at the USNA to sort out your reasons for resigning [too much academic rigor, life in the academy v the life of an ensign (maybe nrotc is a better route?), or you've decided against military service completely]. In any case I hope the many knowledgeable posters on this forum can help you out.

 

[scoutpilot]

Telling someone to stay at an Academy because others wanted to be there so badly makes as much sense as telling your kid to eat the vegetables he hates because there are starving kids in China.

 

[usnajosh]

Scout pilot, if only I had a dollar for the number of times my mom used that line of reasoning with me to eat vegetables..........

 

[Memphis9489]

Telling someone to stay at an Academy because others wanted to be there so badly makes as much sense as telling your kid to eat the vegetables he hates because there are starving kids in China.

That's the most profound thing I've read on this board in a very long time. Seriously. I'm going to use this some time and claim it as my own thought - and I'm not going to give you credit for having first uttered it. Do not expect any royalties.

One thing that I've noticed over the many years is this: Those who have actually attended a service academy tend to be more sympathetic to those who want to quit than those who have never attended.

It also works that way at the front end. I was much more agreeable on pulling the plug on the academy application when my sons starting showing signs of disinterest. I thought, "If you don't want to go - just let me know and we'll pull the plug on all this. This isn't the type of school you make somebody attend. If you don't want to go - then I don't want you to go."

That wasn't my wife's attitude, however. She ordered them to complete the application process and told them, "If you get an appointment, you can decide not to attend at that time. You are going to complete your application!"

That woman scares me at times - she can be worse than a night carrier landing on a pitching deck.

 

[bpu]

Back to the original post... someone gave sage advice that it was November so why not stick out the semester or year to at least get some college credits whereas quitting mid-term gets you nothing. This may not be the best for everyone. Some civilian schools recommend that students who elect to attend a SA not reject their application but suspend their admission to the second semester. That way if a plebe decides a SA is not for them they can withdraw and then attend their first choice civilian school in January. However, finishing a semester at a SA may eliminate that as an option.

Here, it sounds like a former prep school candidate likely doesn't have a civilian Plan B waiting in the wings - but you never know.

The attacks against this plebe for asking about a repayment plan are pretty unbelievable. Why not attack the West Point running back football player who attended USAFA then "quit". Heck, his dad is a 2-3 star Army general and older sister is a WP grad. Surely he should know what he was doing more than anyone and even a knowledgable 18 year old like him didn't have his 10 year plan down cold. He likely went AFA to not be the general's kid and realized as a new AF cadet that his heart wasn't in it and went USMA. No one is asking him to repay the $100K of taxpayer $s spent on him in CO. Give these 18 year olds a little slack here.

 

[NorthernCalMother]

Maverick23, if you received word of the $8,000 bill from a Foundation rep, wouldn't that be the person to ask re: a payment plan? The theories (and lectures) you're getting here don't seem to address your issue.

Since we're all off topic, though, may I add that not all NAPSters fit the historic generalities described here? Re: clustering -- my 1/C former NAPSter chose to stay w/ his two non-NAPS roommates all four years, though he remains close to his NAPS roommate. Re: performance -- most of his NAPS friends still seem to be @ the Academy, and @ least a couple of them have outstanding OOMs. One's a platoon commander, one's headed to the very selective VGEP program for a master's @ Johns Hopkins starting the second semester of his 1/C year.

While I don't hope to affect old timers' predispositions re: NAPS, I do hope any current applicants selected for NAPS won't think they'll be second class citizens, doomed to life in a clique, @ USNA. Outside his own NAPS classmates, my 1/C tells me he has no idea who came from Foundation or NAPS.