GPA for Dual Enrollment Classes/ AFROTC SFT

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Sowbug, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. Sowbug

    Sowbug Member

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    Do the grades and associated GPA for dual enrollment classes taken in high school count toward the overall college GPA for use by AFROTC in determining selection to Summer Field Training? Or, are only the grades/GPA for classes taken while in college counted?
     
  2. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    The grades you get for dual-credit classes will factor into your cGPA for AFROTC. Any class you take will get counted toward your Air Force GPA.
     
  3. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Is that true even if the grades you got from dual-enrollment in HS are not counted in the GPA of your current University? If so this would be a huge boost.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That's a change. IOWs you are saying the college classes taken in HS, not at college alone are used to tabulate the cgpa for AFROTC, and they no longer use just the cgpa from the college that the cadet is enrolled at currently.

    Interesting.
     
  5. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    If you have classes on your transcript from another college and they aren't calculated into your GPA they will still count toward your AFROTC cGPA.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I get the transcript, but typically the college would have already accepted the classes, thus if they counted they would have added that gpa in already. If it is a dual enrollment it might not actually count as college credits, but credits towards high school graduation.
    ~ For our DS he had dual enrollment credits, along with all APs, all his college allowed it for was course validation, the reason why is his community college credits were actually earned in HS, thus on his high school transcript. not on a community college transcript.
     
  7. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Grades from Transfer classes taken at another university are listed on your new university's transcript but are not added into one's overall GPA. They're list with what grade you got in the class, but under the GPA calculation part it just says T. AP credits only count as credits, they never count those grades anyways, it's only used to skip/validate a class. My dual enrollment classes were listed on both my hs's transcript and the transcript from the university I was attending. Idk if your DS's was different because his credits were from a community college and his new university didn't accept it or what, but Dual-Enrollment credits do typically count as college credits and should show on your hs and college transcripts and are counted in your overall accumulation of credits (used to determine which class your in, who registers when, etc.). I know AFROTC GPA is calculated a little differently. I plan to talk to my ROTC Education Officer about it as soon as possible because this can be a big boost in the OML of cadets who got all the easy classes out of the way in hs.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I have never asked my DS if he had a different cgpa for AFROTC vs college. I always assumed (we know what that means) because he always said when he went up it was 3.44, which when I would get his grades from the college it said the exact same thing.
    ~~~ If he had it would have def. bumped him up to at least a 3.6+ because he had 18 credits from the CC, and it was a 4.0. cgpa.

    He basically entered as a sophomore between his APs and his CC credits, due to validation, he did not have to take any English, Psych, and only 1 Econ, 1 science and 1 Math compared to his peers that basically spent the 1st two yrs taking the requirements for all students . He could have graduated in 3 yrs., but because of being on AFROTC scholarship he needed to do the 4 yrs., and decided to just do a dual major, a minor and a core degree instead because all of History classes taken as a HS student were validated and he was able to jump straight into creating a schedule where his electives were used for the degree. He also carried a lot of credits as a Govt major, never less than 19 (not including AFROTC) when he was only required to carry 15 for his major.

    It would not surprise me that his college determined not to use it as a T, but validation because he was an OOS student at a major university, thus their opinion was not to accept from an OOS CC when he was in HS.
    ~ His college did not allow him to register earlier because again it wasn't credits at their college, thus it was the same time as his peers that entered with him until later on due to the amount of credits he was taking/took at the college. That was their system.

    I can see other colleges doing that, they do so here in VA at some colleges., but not at every college. Hence, why I said it might not be a blanket statement to say yes or no.

    JMPO, even if this is the current method, (I am sure it is), I just wonder how much of a difference it makes since many kids these days enter with dual enrollment. I look at it like I look at the PCSM 2.0 Many cadets found their score dropping and worried about the impact, when the fact is if the majority of the cadets score dropped than you would see that the avg score would reflect that too. I.E. if most went from a 90 to a 75 (no flight hrs), than you are going to see the avg awarded rated would also drop from the PCSM 1.0 scores.
    ~ Obviously it would be the opposite, many cadets would have a higher cgpa this way than if it was only the college cgpa, the number may change for them, but also for everyone else. The only people it would truly help IMPO are cadets with lower college cgpa.
    ~~~ Yet, remember the biggest bulk of the SFT score comes from the CoCs rec. Another assumption, because it occurred at DS's det, but the CoC does an academic review every semester with each cadet, by doing so the question becomes how much weight they will place dual into their equation when it comes to racking and stacking cadets within the det. I.E. they had 4.0 for dual, but since in college they have only carried a 3.0, yet another cadet has no dual, but carries a 3.3. Assumption they now both have an AFROTC cgpa of 3.3, they have the same PFT and LLAB scores. Which one does he rank above the other. The one that carries a true college cgpa or the one with dual?
    ~~ There will always be a fine line where someone loses out by a minimal amount. I.E. My number 1 cadet, is not the same as 1 of my top cadets, or my top 10% of cadets,etc.

    Sometimes it is also shades of grey. I get wanting to get the best points available, just saying sometimes you need to see the forest for the trees too.

    Just my 0.019853 cents of an opinion that should be thrown into the circular filing cabinet and given no weight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  9. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    I get what your saying, it's a little hard to compare this with what happened with PCSM 2.0 though since it affected every cadet going rated in one way or another, but there are not as many cadets who were previously dual-enrolled as you may think. Many more kids today in general are doing it, but not many of them become cadets. A lot of scholarship cadets come in with AP credit, but not many of those also took college classes which are the only credits obtained in hs that would be a factor if Reaper is correct about how AFROTC calculates GPA. The only thing we've been told about the difference is that AFROTC doesn't accept grade replacement or freshman forgiveness for classes. Generally, if you get a D or F in a class, your college has some type of grade replacement policy where if you retake the class within a certain time frame and do better in it, the D or F would be replaced in the calculation of your cGPA. AFROTC considers both the failed class and the retake when calculating GPA so it averages out (i.e if you fail a class then get an A in it next semester it will average out to the same input as a C whereas the school will only count the A). I started off taking sophmore and Junior level classes as a freshman since I came in with 30 credits, the majority of which was from DE. And I'm also doing a second major, which I was told wouldn't factor into my EA chances (hoping this info is actually wrong and that they do factor it in somehow, but I'm not holding my breath). My GPA is ok considing my very full courseload, it's a few decimal points above a 3.0, but you can imagine how much a full year's worth of As and 2 Bs would positively affect my GPA for field training.

    That's the thing about DE, it is an awesome way to distinguish yourself and get ahead in college, but it takes away a lot of the cushion you get from the fairly easy As in freshman classes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  10. FlyingWildcatDad

    FlyingWildcatDad Member

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    Reaper, so your saying even though the GPA from college credits earned during dual enrollment or summer classes at say a community college does not count toward the University's GPA like my DS is attending, it does count toward the Air Force GPA for SFT selection? Hope your right because would help boosting the GPA for my DS along with other cadets.
     
  11. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    Yes, that is what I'm saying. If your cadet goes and talks to the cadre they will usually tell them what their AFROTC cGPA is and they can compare it to their current university GPA and see that it will be slightly lower or higher.
     
  12. FlyingWildcatDad

    FlyingWildcatDad Member

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    Thanks Reaper for the clarification, great news!
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Non Ducor,

    I get what you are saying, but....

    The cgpa is a small % of the score, the PFA, and AFOQT will matter also.
    ~ 3.6 AFROTC cgpa is strong, but an 85 PFA, and 50 AFOQT is going to be placed into the equation too, and may equal no SFT
    ~~~ IOWs a 3.3 AFROTC cgpa, 95 PFA and 75 AFOQT may equal SFT.

    Just saying that before anyone believes it will be a big boost, more information needs to be placed into the equation because the cgpa is one of the smallest parts.
    ~~~ Sorry not meaning to be Debbie Downer, juts trying to make sure that posters understand the true equation, where the above 3 aspects are part of the total sum, plus the CoC.

    Honestly, I would not concern myself with this for at least 3 more months. The fact is nobody sits on the boards, and nobody here knows what the ADAF manpower needs will be for 16. The true driving force on the selection rate is going to be the ADAF manpower needs for 16. If it is 1500, and they have 2400 currently as AS200, than you will see a lower rate, and much higher stats. due to competition (supply/demand). If it is 2500, and they have 2400, than the rate will be higher, and stats may be lower.

    From my experience the selection rate is more about manpower requirements than most people realize, and cadets have no control over that aspect. It is called timing.
    ~ Look at threads on this site
    ~~~~AFA 14 AFSC have yet to get their assignments. Typically given in Oct.
    ~~~ Rated schools (UPT/UNT/ABM/RPA) are pushing back start dates by months.
    ~~~ AFROTC grads are waiting longer to report ADAF for schools.

    Place that all together and what does it equal IMPO? Manpower issues.

    I would also say that for 16, the AF did cut the incoming class size, compared to classes for 13 and 14. Can't be sure, but I recall that AFROTC cancelled ISPS for 14.

    IMPO, that also relates to one of the reasons why the rate for SFT jumped from 55% to 93% in one yr.,(14 grads) while they only increased the slots available by 4%.
    ~~~ The pool was smaller!

    My best wishes, hopes and thoughts.
    ~~~ Posters know when I place this bet that I mean it.
    ~ I will bet my beloved Myrtle, that this will be another high % selected yr.
    ~~ 1. AF cut their numbers for SA/ROTC 3-4 yrs ago. They are on target. Look at the AFA class size for 12 compared to 16. They started off with 1600 apptmts for 12, and @1350 for 16. Basically 20% reduction.
    ~~ 2. Every airline has acknowledged that there will be a pilot shortage starting in 5 yrs. That means starting with the class of 09, AF pilots can walk. http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/11/14/af-pilots-rejecting-bonuses-to-leave-service.html
    Read the article...they are walking away from a 250K bonus at 32. to join the airlines.
    ~~3. There is an inverse relationship between unemployment and military attrition. When unemployment is low, attrition is high, when unemployment is high, attrition rate is low.

    Just my 0.0198643 cents and throw it in the circular filing cabinet when you start walking down the path of SFT without understanding it is all about ADAF needs.
    ~ AF is not the Army. 100% commissioned in 16 will go ADAF. There is no Guard or Reserve option.
     

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