GPA on AROTC app?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by JBL2012, May 15, 2011.

  1. JBL2012

    JBL2012 Army ROTC Cadet - MS3

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    Sorry for making a new topic for such a quick (and probably obvious) question, but on the ROTC app it asks for my cumulative GPA on a 4.0 scale. Should I put my weighted or unweighted GPA in that slot?

    I realize they will be getting my transcript so it's probably not that big of a deal, but I like to make sure I do everything right :thumb:
     
  2. gojack

    gojack ....

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    It's not specified (weighted/unweighted)in the application, so use the one you like.
    However if you look at the application Here
    The form that goes to your High School, requests a CGPA on a 4.0 scale.
     
  3. mariner116

    mariner116 Member

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    They are looking for unweighted.
     
  4. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    A 4.0 scale would be unweighted. Weighted GPA is 5.0 scale.
     
  5. The OC Josh

    The OC Josh Member

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    Not necessarily. It depends on the high school. Because my school didn't offer AP or IB, both weighted and unweighted were on a 4.0 scale. Most colleges look at your GPA and recalculate it. This also takes into account if schools give different points for other grades. (One school gives 4.0 even for an A-, while another gives a 3.75 for an A-)

    I would put whichever GPA is higher.
     
  6. SCcandidate2015

    SCcandidate2015 Member

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    That's not true.
    My school reports three GPAs. One is weighted and on a scale that ranges from 4.5-5.875 depending on the rigor of the courses you took. The second is the same GPA proportionately, just calculated to be out of 4.000 instead, but it is still weighted. The third is a plain unweighted GPA out of 4.0.
     
  7. 1017225

    1017225 Member

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    Anyone else think schools should simplify and coordinate GPA systems? Using similar systems would be more conducive to allowing a more equal representation and streamline admission decisions..... Just my opinion.
     
  8. SCcandidate2015

    SCcandidate2015 Member

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    I agree with you 100%. However, I live in a state where the public education system is more than a bit backwards.
     
  9. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    To add more to the different GPA scales, in NY state, a typical public school GPA is done on a 100 point scale (very much like a percentage) unweighted with more points added for AP/Honors type classes.

    At the boarding school where my daughter went, it was a 4.0 scale but AP/Honors type classes had different weights added depending upon how many of them you were taking in the same term. More weight added to each class for each additional uplevel class. They had a complex spreadsheet for calculating GPAs.

    As to the desire for a common GPA system, if Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, what a fine Christmas we would have.

    Not to worry, though. This is why they ask for a transcript. And in any good transcript, there will be a ranking (or at least a percentile within the graduating class) along with statistics about what percentage of the class matriculate to 2 and 4 year colleges as well as the most common college matriculations and statistics about highly selective (Ivy) colleges. This allows CC to size your performance up against a measured student body. While not precise, it can allow them to discount the kid in the 25th percentile from a weak school (where most do not matriculate to college) from the 25th percentile kid at a top boarding school where 10% of the graduating class goes to an Ivy League school.

    College admissions committees do the same calculus on transcripts from differing grading systems.
     
  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    This is also the reason they require you to have your school counselor or advisor fill out a form included in your application that lists items like your GPA, class standing, % of class attending college. This form also has a line that asks if the school uses a GPA weighting system and whether it was used to calculated your GPA and class standing.

    My son's school does not weight either GPA or class standing no matter how many AP classes the student takes. The advisor just checked the box stating they do not weight. CC figured out the rest from the transcript.

    In the end it won't matter which one you put down, the advisor form will tell them if it is weighted or not, then they will do their own math magic to figure it all out.

    The only time this might be a concern is if your unweighted GPA is below the Min. required for the application and it is your weighted GPA only that puts you above the Min. mark.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    AS others stated you place the uw. Also as others have stated the wgpa varies not only state by state, but school district to school district.

    I wouldn't sweat over it because as jcleppe stated the boards are known to re-weight to their formula.

    Not only in the transcript will it show your curriculum, but also the school gives a profile. This is why they may re-weight your gpa, yes, even your uwgpa.

    More specifically what they are looking at in the profile is how competitive the school is compared to other schools. That profile will give insider info:

    1. How many go Ivy, 4 private, 4 yr public, 2 yr, trade or nothing.
    ~~~25% going Ivy, 50 % 4 yr, 10% 2 yr, 10% trade, 5% nothing. Will state to them that the school is more competitive than the one who has 0% Ivy.

    Think about it, if you rank top 20% and 25% are Ivy, your school is very competitive. If you rank 10% and nobody goes Ivy, it isn't as competitive.

    2. Profile also will tell them if you took the most rigorous curriculum offered If they state they have 16 AP/IB courses and you took 2.

    You can have that 4.0 uwgpa, but the candidate with a 3.5 uwgpa will look better since they pushed it to the limit regarding difficult curriculum.

    I agree, but there is a problem with this idea, certain states would game the system (grading up), they would do this because they don't want to be #50 out of 50 states for the lowest gpa ranking. Imagine the outcry from parents if we changed to that system and yr one out of the gate your state is # 50? People buy homes due to location. Number 1 location issue? School system. People will buy smaller homes, or commute long times, payer higher RE taxes, etc. to send their kids to the best school system. It will tick them off to no end to find out nationally they are in the bottom.

    What I believe we should do is get rid of the EOG/EOC/SOL, whatever your state calls the pathway tests (3,5,8, 10) and make it like an SAT. Or what I had as a child (Ohio and California). Make it like the SAT/ACT or AP tests. Every kid takes the same test on the same day across the nation. It would be better than every state making their own test. It would be another tool for colleges to use for selection.

    I am also against our current SAT/ACT system. Go back to the 80's where superscoring did not occur to this level. You were allowed to take it 2x, best score wins. If you took it a 3rd time you risked the fact that they would now avg all 3 scores.

    Let's be real, how many kids walk around and say they have 1500 out of 1600? Tons, now ask them how many times they took it to get that score? Some of these kids have 5, or 6 exams. In other words they learned how to take the test. Teaching to test. Parents are culpable because they allow it, but if we stopped it, we would do more assistance to our children. I am also against the writing portion. Colleges obviously still have not accepted this for the most part, because if they did, they wouldn't ask for essays. They would also be showing from statistical POV scores out of the 2400 range, whereas, many to this day still show just 1600. The writing portion IMPO is a waste of time and pure BS because it is subjective. Even a 17 yr old did a study and showed the kids who wrote the most in this portion got the highest score and that grammatical errors were not an issue. He had a high score, took 3 SATs, and knew he could through a way the lowest score. On one he wrote more, but used incorrect language(run ons, definitions, etc) and mis-spelled on purpose, but he filled the entire section. That was his highest score. The next time he wrote with no grammatical errors, but did not fill the page to the end. That was his lowest score.

    This made the news a few months ago. Of course college board stated this was a fluke, but if you know how they grade the written you can understand why it needs to go. OBTW, I have no issue with it if you think mpo is sour grapes. Both of my kids were in the high 600/low 700s.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  12. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Unfortunately you are correct. We want our kids to have honesty and integrity but we continue to prove that we can not lead by example.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    It is all about what I call NIMBY... Not In My Back Yard.

    We want it to be fair, but when it hits us personally we take issue with the process. NIMBY! Or maybe it should be call NMK...Not My Kid.

    Back on topic.

    Understand you can submit your uwgpa, but be prepared that they may change it. They do it because of the school profile.

    You can have that 4.0, but don't freak out when the college says you are lower.

    If you order the hard copy of your SAT, and have the scores sent to the universities, on the very bottom, college board will show your uwgpa according to those schools. At least they did back in 07 and 09.

    DS's uwgpa only matched 1 school and not re-scored, that was the AFA. The other 4 on his list bumped it up; Notre Dame, NYU- Stern, UMDCP, and UMiami Florida.

    You are new to the process, I suggest you ask for a one on one with your GC. They are an asset that unfortunately used to its' fullest. GC's in your school can give a quick look and measure you compared to their historical data regarding previous grads.

    Do it now, because now is the time to fill the squares you are lacking, not in September. Trust them.
     
  14. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Much ado about nothing. Use the weighted GPA if it is on your transcripts.
    Using the GPA on your transcript that benefits you the most is not about honesty and integrity. This is why they have weighting.
    Since class rank counts and they use the weighted GPA to calculate class rank then you are free to use that. It is not dishonest. It is not cheating. It does not make you immoral.
    I don't even understand why a school that weights will even have an unweighted GPA.

    There is no standard. Each school entity creates their own grading system.
    There is nothing wrong with using the GPA that benefits you more - they will look at your transcripts and evalutate them on the grades you received against the strength of your schedule.
     
  15. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Like I stated earlier, the CC form that the school advisor fills out asks the question whether the GPA and class standing is weighted or unweighted.

    The only concern I could see is if you have a 2.4 UW GPA and a 3.4 W Gpa. I am not sure how CC would look at this since the UW GPA would be below the application standards.

    I only bring this up because my son's school does not weight either GPA or class standing. If the student takes all AP courses throughout school and gets a 2.4 they are ranked on the same scale as a student that takes no AP and the easiest classes available, the GPA on their transcript would be 2.4. According to the scholarship requirements this student would not meet the Min. GPA. My question would be this, Would an applicant that has a 2.4 UW but because their school weights the classes he would have a 3.4 W, would this now mean that he would meet the Min. GPA requirements. That would seem just a tad unfair since not all schools weight the GPA's.

    Maybe Clarkson or another ROO could clear this one up, it's above my pay grade.
     
  16. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Bottom line here is that the GPA entered on the application is only used to qualify the applicant to get an interview. Beyond that, CC does its own calculus (even if you have only taken Trig - lol) on your transcript once it is submitted to come up with that part of your total score.

    To give you an idea of how universities use your transcript, the local state flagship here actually stores 5 GPA scores for each applicant including the HS weighted and unweighted scores. The university calculates its own weighted overall GPA and has a core set of classes (English, Math, Sciences) that they calculate a weighted and unweighted score for.

    I'm sure CC has its own proprietary formula which they use to measure the academic performance of students. And it isn't particularly important for the applicants to know this or necessarily worry about it as they can't do anything about it. The most important thing for a student to do is do well in the most challenging classes available to them (that they qualify to take).

    I would say that if you attend a hyper competitive school that doesn't give out many A grades (like < 15%) and your unweighted GPA is below the minimum, you might consider entering your weighted GPA to qualify for the interview knowing well that the transcripts will give CC a better idea of how you stack up against a quality set of peers. If you truly don't stack up well after the interview, the scholarship won't be coming your way regardless. And I think 11 out of 10 PMS' would rather interview the marginal GPA candidate and encourage him to walk on even if s/he doesn't get a scholarship. There are some great late-bloomers out there.
     
  17. Marist College ROTC

    Marist College ROTC Member

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    High School G.P.A. plays a big part in separating scholarship from non-scholarship cadets as an incoming freshman.

    It does not play the same role when being considered for on campus scholarships. Some programs, including mine, barely consider it at all. You should not be worried that your High School G.P.A. will hinder you from getting an on campus scholarship. These scholarships will be based mostly on attendance, class participation, APFT score, full qualification on DODMERB, and the instructor's "gut feeling" about the cadet.
     
  18. JBL2012

    JBL2012 Army ROTC Cadet - MS3

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    Thank you all for your help!

    I'll write my weighted (4.2) and they can deal with it from there. My UW is 3.7 so I qualify anyway.

    Also, I have a very good working relationship with my GC. I sit down with her and discuss my progress periodically. In fact, she was the one who really got me going with Boys' State. (Our school does it weird. There was a significant lack of interest in previous years and so they opened it up for applications. Despite the deadline passing, she gave me a number and I made a few calls and wouldn't you know it, I was one of two out of six applicants selected.)

    Thanks again for the advice and insight, everyone. These boards are more useful than I ever imagined. :thumb:
     
  19. navy2016

    navy2016 Member

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    So true.

    Also If you are in AP or IB, the maximum GPA for a course goes up into the 5.8. Therefore, that would whack the 5.0 scale out of balance
     
  20. SCcandidate2015

    SCcandidate2015 Member

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    Oh, to live in good old South Carolina.
     

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