GPA's

[Profmom2]

Where it becomes difficult for admissions offices is when a school weights in a way that can not be backed out - and there are schools that play that game too.

My nieces HS gives an A in an AP class for 85 and above, A in honors for 88 and above A in cp for 90 and above. The transcript shows only an A, no equivalent numerical grade. So how do you back that out? Admissions has no way of knowing if the raw grade was above whatever arbitrary mark they are using.

This is why GPA's are becoming meaningless as every school does it differently, some transparent and some not so much.

 

[rnmomkidzs]

Where it becomes difficult for admissions offices is when a school weights in a way that can not be backed out - and there are schools that play that game too.

This is why GPA's are becoming meaningless as every school does it differently, some transparent and some not so much.

As an admission professional in a selective civilian university I can tell you that this is exactly why, many civilian institutions of higher education (and USAFA) are beginning to recalculate GPA based on a series of multipliers that take into account the applicant's high school profile and NOT class rank or GPA. Whole person evaluation is fast becoming the most commonly used assessment admissions buzz for much of higher ed. It's application varies, but tends to be based on the applicant's individual successes in light of his or her school or district profile not specific class comparison. In that way applicants who are not offered specific opportunities or are in extremely competitive environments where game playing with GPA's/class rank is not uncommon are not penalized. Class rank has not been found to be a good indicator of success in college. For example--a student in a competitive high school who is ranked 10 out of 600 has not been found to be significantly more successful than one who is 95 out of 600--because often when you look at class selection and grades they have the same AP courses yet separated by rank because one chose to take choir or a fine arts class which was unranked for a grade and the other took it pass/fail. It IS that subtle in classes that large and schools with that much competition.
While all of the SA's do not recalculate, they do look at the whole person--in the case of USAFA actually assign a whole candidate "score" and high school profile is a very big part of that percentage--which is why there is very large amount of variation in GPA, class rank and "stats" among those lucky appointees. Bottom line is that there isn't a one fits all answer. These things are always a factor and each SA factors them differently, but the actual raw numbers themselves--class rank, GPA, weighted/unweighted--these simply are pieces of a much bigger puzzle--as it should be.
Admissions in a perfect world is not about simply being able to play the game in high school and achieving the highest numbers and the most impressive "stats." It should be about challenging one's self, loving to learn and becoming a life long learner. The SA's may be preparing those whose first goal is serve, but they actually seem to have a much more balanced approach to academic admission as well.

 

[Maximus]

I wish they had standardized criteria for all schools! That would really help with the whole person concept quantification.

My sons high school is a Charter HS, next door to a State College (it was a 'Community College' two years ago and just gained the State status) but, they only give one extra point for college courses ie: A in Calc is a factor of 5 into your GPA, is this the same with the rest of you? On another related thought, my son took a couple of courses there that we thought were going to be Chemistry (Soils and Fertilizers, bad advice from a teacher....) but, ended up being just an elective like NJROTC...big waste of an A because, he actually had to be at school at 6:45 am every other day to catch a bus, to get to the campus two towns away giving that course...then, not get back to school till afternoon. That also rippled into staying at school till almost 5:00 pm every other day to finish his other courses. The school has it's schedule set up just like the college, one day you might be required to be there at 8:00 am, and the next day your first class may not be till 11:30 am, very open for the "less motivated" student as they had total freedom to leave, and did during the study periods in between class.

Another point/question to add is, the charter school doesn't allow below a 2.0 average, they transfer you out to the regular high school with anything south of a 2.0 gpa so class rank is real competitive for the 161 kids in his class. They also randomly drug test with a transfer out if found positive.

 

[rnmomkidzs]

Here is something important to remember--the school profile is the MOST important piece of information the admissions staff has at its disposal. This gives them an accurate snap shot of the candidate/applicant's environment and that student's performance within that snapshot. Every single high school has one--and sends it with a transcript or counselor signature letter. If the "whole person concept" is utilized an admissions office must use this profile as its most accurate point of reference--because they are not admitting on a grid. Class rank and GPA simply are not accurate indicators because they vary so much from school to school. For home schoolers a curriculum description and letter is sent as well. Admissions professionals have a very good idea about regions and schools, they travel extensively and assign individuals (even in the smallest colleges and universities) to learn these areas and what is available to applicant students as well as the culture and nature of the systems in their region, however the bottom line is that not all schools use the WP admissions concept-and even when they do, there is no rhyme or reason to this business. It is complicated indeed.

 

[Eagle]

admissions

In my son's school, not only is it competitive to get in, it is competitive to stay in. In his 4 years there....he is one of only 1/3 who are 4 year students. Others left due to poor grades, poor atitudes, poor behavior. Don't think his school really publisizes that information. How would the Admission's folk learn of that and evaulate it as they look at his application?

 

[rnmomkidzs]

Ask your high school for a copy of their school profile. Their graduation rate should be documented.

 

[Eagle]

I would guess that the published profile graduation rate it 100% But that doesn't tell the entire story. Each year the spots of those that left are filled with transfers, PG's, repeats (for sports) and the class size grows from about 95 freshman to about 125 seniors.

 

[J Collins]

Here is something important to remember--the school profile is the MOST important piece of information the admissions staff has at its disposal. This gives them an accurate snap shot of the candidate/applicant's environment and that student's performance within that snapshot. Every single high school has one--and sends it with a transcript or counselor signature letter. If the "whole person concept" is utilized an admissions office must use this profile as its most accurate point of reference--because they are not admitting on a grid. Class rank and GPA simply are not accurate indicators because they vary so much from school to school. For home schoolers a curriculum description and letter is sent as well. Admissions professionals have a very good idea about regions and schools, they travel extensively and assign individuals (even in the smallest colleges and universities) to learn these areas and what is available to applicant students as well as the culture and nature of the systems in their region, however the bottom line is that not all schools use the WP admissions concept-and even when they do, there is no rhyme or reason to this business. It is complicated indeed.

Our school didnt even have a profile!!!! I gave them a letter from the USMMA Admissions dept. with a sample profile, and the information the USMMA needed.. the school had to make one up.... odd and we have others in the past that have made it into SAs.

 

[rnmomkidzs]

smaller private school perhaps--very unusual--a counselor letter submitted with the school's "vital stats" will suffice, but in this day and age it truly is a rarity. This is where parental ingenuity rules the day!!!

 

[Maximus]

Here is something important to remember--the school profile is the MOST important piece of information the admissions staff has at its disposal. This gives them an accurate snap shot of the candidate/applicant's environment and that student's performance within that snapshot. Every single high school has one--and sends it with a transcript or counselor signature letter. If the "whole person concept" is utilized an admissions office must use this profile as its most accurate point of reference--because they are not admitting on a grid. Class rank and GPA simply are not accurate indicators because they vary so much from school to school. For home schoolers a curriculum description and letter is sent as well. Admissions professionals have a very good idea about regions and schools, they travel extensively and assign individuals (even in the smallest colleges and universities) to learn these areas and what is available to applicant students as well as the culture and nature of the systems in their region, however the bottom line is that not all schools use the WP admissions concept-and even when they do, there is no rhyme or reason to this business. It is complicated indeed.

I have a transcript (we bought an extra one and opened it) in front of me and there is no school profile. My son asked his guidance counselor if there had ever been another student applying to a SA, and she said no. We've really had to push hard to get her to do anything for the applications. She really didn't like working with him at the end of his Junior year info and my son had to explain how-SA's want the info in at the end of Junior year. She told him that she had to work on Seniors paperwork first, and if she had time in her busy schedule, she'd try to accommodate him.

 

[larry2013]

My son experienced the same thing - and our school as had several SA kids even during the time he has been in HS. My son goes to a HS in fairfax county VA - they love to adverise their successes and rankings. It is a shame that the counseling dept seems to not live up to expectations - good luck

 

[kaullman]

Candidate Academic Information

The candidate academic information form is supposed to include the type of school and class related information mentioned above, to help the admissions folks during their deliberations. It is somewhat mis-named in that it has little to do with the candidate and much more to do with the school.

BGO, USNA 2007 dad, CDR USN (ret)

 

[USMC]

all this talk on how GPA is not important...however, I read on a similar college search software/engine to "The College Board" that the average GPA of the students with appointments is 3.55. That is a very high average...I am much below this average, will this severely affect my chances of getting an appointment?

thanks

 

[Roman]

all this talk on how GPA is not important...however, I read on a similar college search software/engine to "The College Board" that the average GPA of the students with appointments is 3.55. That is a very high average...I am much below this average, will this severely affect my chances of getting an appointment?

thanks

lol, that's exactly my GPA; however, I suspect that number is wrong and lower then the actual. The AFA reports 3.89 for the Class of 2012, but I can't find it for USNA...

More important than GPA is the (hard) classes you took and your class rank. Your ACT/SAT scores go in the same category, so you potentially could make up for a lower GPA with strong scores.

 

[USMC]

lol, that's exactly my GPA; however, I suspect that number is wrong and lower then the actual. The AFA reports 3.89 for the Class of 2012, but I can't find it for USNA...

More important than GPA is the (hard) classes you took and your class rank. Your ACT/SAT scores go in the same category, so you potentially could make up for a lower GPA with strong scores.

I suppose...my gpa is a 3.1 unweighted very upset! All honors and AP's though, and I still have a year and a half left! So, theres still time to bring it up.

 

[J Collins]

Chin up... remember they look at everything....

 

[J Collins]

smaller private school perhaps--very unusual--a counselor letter submitted with the school's "vital stats" will suffice, but in this day and age it truly is a rarity. This is where parental ingenuity rules the day!!!

Small school, yes.. but ALso the oldest school district in the state.. the HS has been around sicne early 80s so no real excuse why.... I thought it was interesting.. I didnt get it by giving them samples, I got it by writting all the school board members and the Superintendant. The HS had told me they don't have one to contact the district office.. so I did...