Graduates Pay Scales

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by nadofr8dog, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. nadofr8dog

    nadofr8dog Member

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    http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/full-list-of-schools

    This probably needs to be taken with a grain of salt. For some reason KP is not listed though, I'm guessing, if it was it'd be at or very near the top.

    I also don't understand how an 0-1 in the Navy and an 0-1 in the Army could have different gross pay. I thought 0-1 pay would be the same in all services. I was also asked a friends daughter whose an USNA '10 grad about what she earned as an 0-1 and it was no where near what DS, '13 grad, is earning at Crowley.

    Just checked DFAS pay scales and an 0-1 gets 4,493.70/mos or $53,924/year, gross.

    Again, FWIW and if this has been previously discussed, my apologies.
     
  2. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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  3. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    I guessed you missed the *

    * Data represents those in the civilian labor force, not active service members.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    If they use an avg it would vary from branch to branch. For example, An Army O1 helo pilot would also get flight pay, thus their pay would be the same as a Navy flier.

    However, there are fewer pilots in the Army than there are in the Navy, thus the avg pay for an O1 in the Navy would be higher than the Army. The Navy also has sea pay which is considerably higher than the Army's jump pay.

    Additionally, every yr in the military they send a letter with the breakdown of the actual salary the person would make in the "real" world, this includes things like medical benefits, commissary and BAH.

    Using the BAH you can also understand why the Navy ranks higher than the Army because their larger bases are in very expensive areas compared to the Army. For example: Ft. Bragg, NC is the 82nd AB. It is cheaper to live there than San Diego for a Navy officer. An O1 stationed in San Diego with no children will get @22K in non-taxable housing. The Army O1 would get less than 12K a yr. Even if they were stationed at Ft. Rich in AK, they are still about 4K below the Army.

    Think about the Navy's largest bases....CA, VA, FL, Hawaii, all are more expensive to live at than the large Army bases according to the military.

    Finally, your friends DS probably did not add into the equation that they have 100% free medical, including prescriptions, dental, vision, with a 400K life insurance policy for pennies. In this day and age that can tally up to be tens of thousands of dollars that they are saving, and not being taxed on either. Just like their BAH. 22K not taxable with a starting salary that is @40K, converts to about 5K in federal/state tax savings on top of the 22K, that your son is not getting with his company.

    It is not necessarily how much they get paid, but also how much they keep. If your DS is making 70K, how much is he paying for health insurance? How much is he paying monthly for life insurance? How much is deducted for disability insurance? Is his rent considered for tax purposes not taxable?

    If you place all of that into the equation you can see how payscale came up with that starting salary.

    What I am curious about is SUNY Maritime was ranked as number 14. How did they jump over USMMA for pay?
     
  5. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    Good catch KPEngineer. I didn't see that, either.

    To Pima's point, there is an easy tool to figure Regular Military Compensation (Civilian Equivalent Pay) HERE

    The tax advantages of not having to pay taxes on 1/3 or more of your total income are huge.

    Stealth_81
     
  6. nadofr8dog

    nadofr8dog Member

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    I obviously did miss the "*". How does someone graduate from USNA or USMMA and bypass their service obligation? Those that do must be such a small number that those institutions should probably not be included in the list.

    I understand medical benefits, housing allowance and etc is included in, but how many KP grads joined a union? Most unions contracts have benefits which are hard to put a specific dollar value to unless, of course, you're management negotiating the contract.
     
  7. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Perhaps they don't consider them "graduates" until their service obligation is complete. Definitely not an apples to apples comparison.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I think all of these lists should be thrown in the circular filing cabinet.

    My SIL brags about how her DD's colleges are on top 10 lists. They truly are, but these lists have become so specific to a point every college in the nation can probably say they were ranked in the top 10, 25 for anything.

    I.E. SIL brags about her DD attends 1 of the top 10 Engineering schools in the nation. The college's website says it too! They are not going to MIT, CalPoli, etc. It is the safety school for IS, when you delve deeper they have been awarded one of the top Chem Engineering school in the North East. Not a top 10 Engineering school in the nation. Parents read/see/hear what they want so they can boast as a parent.

    That is the thing. I am guessing SUNY ranked higher (#14) because part of the ranking was:
    % of grads who think their job is meaningful: 60%

    USNA, USMA, AFA may have all ranked higher because that one question.

    I don't know the weight they give to that question, but I doubt the SA recipients would rank that the question lower than 90%. It could have been the reason.

    Packer,

    I looked at the * link for both USNA and USMA. Obviously you can see the pay is tied to when they entered the civilian world.

    Again, why this list is BS. Those pay scales are for @40 yr old people, not 5 and dive.

    If I am right from all of the posts I have read regarding USMMA grads, by the time they are 30 they are making 6 figures. Way more than any 6 yr AD military member, regardless if they leave or stay.

    In the end these graduates make more money than any other SA grad.

    If you decide not to go this route because of a ranking, than that is your choice/option.

    If a list can make you re-think why to go, than you have bigger problems because this is a huge commitment for the next 4 yrs.

    If you wonder why they weren't ranked, and believe that SA/ROTC grads aren't competitive, than you don't understand the tax codes.

    Also, you need to look at the bonus pay offered and retirement pay. I.E. USMMA grads can go AD. The AF for fliers are offered 125K at the 7 yr marker. They also get 50% retirement pay for base pay. Bullet earns @45K a yr. for the rest of his life. There is a lot of money to be made in the AD world if they consider the job critical manned.

    I understand many of the USMMA grads will make a very pretty penny starting in 5 -8 yrs. However,an AF fighter pilot will be given 250K for 10 yrs., their retirement pay, tax benefits because of BAH, and @10K a yr in flight pay.
    ~~~ At 32, with the bonuses, and flight pay. They are making the equivalent of @150K (75K in base pay, 25K bonus pay, 10K in flight pay, 20K in BAH, 10K in tax savings and 10K saving in Union, Medical, life insurance).
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  9. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Not quite. You're assuming that at 32 those officers will have been promoted to O4 and have 10 years in service. It's far more likely that at 32 they'll be an O-3 with over 8, which would make base pay more like $63,000, which is a far cry from $75,000.

    Nonetheless it's astonishing that they get such ridiculous bonuses, when their Army counterparts are in charge of more and get a sliver of that.

    Someone should tell DFAS about the two-rank rule of thumb.

    Regardless, statistics are meaningless to the individual. Average salaries may be higher, but the individual falls somewhere on the scale. You may make $300000 or $30000. The average means nothing.
     
  10. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Bonuses aren't about how much they are in charge of, it's about how much it costs to create a new one.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Currently for the AF, O4 and 10 is common.

    Now when it comes to pinning O4, I agree.

    Our DS entered as an O1 at 22 yrs 3 mos. He will have 10 yrs in at 32.
    Bullet commissioned 87, and met O4 in 97. He pinned on 98 for O4.

    O3 with 8 yrs is 5630 per month base pay. @70K a yr., but now add in BAH. Scout add in the mothly flight pay too. @10K

    Scout what is your BAH? You are married, O3. I think it comes out to be 15K non-taxable per yr. That probably equals to 4K in taxes owed.

    Take that up with your MOC. This thread is about pay scales.

    The OP wondered how the USNA grads make more than USMA grads for payscale purposes.

    Not my fault the Air Force places more emphasis on keeping rated than the Army.

    OBTW scout regarding the Army. Tell me were they in the sandbox from 93 to 01? AF and Navy never left. OSW amd ONW proves it.

    ALSO, I am guessing you know what an ALO is for ops?

    I don't want to divert this thread at alll. I just wanted to explain to the OP why SAs ranked higher.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    We've done this before. You'll just cry foul when I point out what a teeny sliver of anyone in the AF was actually involved in ONW/OSW.

    Perhaps you've heard of Kuwait, Somalia, Bosnia, and Kosovo? Don't worry, the Army was in all of those, too. Are you contending that anyone in the Air Force is getting a 25,000 bonus because someone did ONW 20 years ago?

    No, I've NEVER heard of an ALO.............................

    AF gives bonuses now simply because no one has the guts to tell their pilots they don't rate a bonus anymore. The airline boom days are over. The economy is tepid, the AF has had to forcibly downsize, but a fighter pilot needs a $25k bonus because his job just isn't rewarding enough to keep him in. I would be willing to bet that even Bullet can't justify having those kinds of blanket paydays in this budgetary environment.

    Enjoy the gravy train while it lasts, I suppose. The reckoning is coming hard and fast.

    As for the salaries, again, it's moot. The numbers are meaningless averages when it comes to an individual. If you want to assign value to it, consider what the resumes of a USMA or USNA grad will look like after X years compared to USAFA. The former are much more desirable in the business work (on average) because of a demonstrated history of leading large numbers of people vice being a pilot. Recruiters will tell you as much. Placing people in the business world with solid leadership resumes is an easy day for them. My guess is that the navy numbers are skewed because of a higher technicality to a lot of navy jobs fields.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  13. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Mod edit
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2013
  14. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Mod edit
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2013
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Scout,

    The fact is that gravy train of pilot bonuses has been going for 30 yrs.
    I guess as a HELO pilot you do not follow the fix wing world, and why that 125K or 225K fighter bonus will exist for yrs to come!
    http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2011/06/Demand-for-airline-pilots-set-to-soar/48661596/1
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...-a-pilot-shortage-boeing-report-says/2725815/
    http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2013-08-29-Boeing-Forecasts-Increased-Global-Demand-for-Airline-Pilots

    USMMA candidates, my apology.

    If this is your career desire don't place pay into the equation. Don't place these rankings in your decision.

    Go because you want to be there. If you make less money, than oh well! You can't put a price on memories, and friendships.

    Whatever you do when you die, it will be your family and friends that cry over your grave,
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2013
  16. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Simple supply and demand.
     
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Remember those "predictions" are about an industry that has never managed to stave off repeated bankruptcies, and made by people with a vested interest in the airlines buying planes and then filling the seats.

    You can believe the bonuses will go on forever. They won't, especially in years where the servicemember is still obligated to the Air Force.

    Whatever you do, kids, don't get into this for the money.
     
  18. Lynpar

    Lynpar Member

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    And what is the percentage of KP grads that go active duty? So the rest of the question is how do those not AD fare? I like Pima's answer on that one too!

    :jerry:: now this is the SAF I know and love! I have missed these educatuional smack down threads. :cool:

    Ps, who the heck is Jerry anyway? Can we get a plain popcorn box to represent a popcorn worthy thread?

    Go KP Beat CG
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  19. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    I'm bowing out of this before more people get their feelings hurt. Everyone enjoy your weekend.
     
  20. TacticalNuke

    TacticalNuke Administrator

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    Let's keep it civil, everyone.

    -TN
     

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