Help me understand how the school affects chance of scholarship

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by kodiakisland, Jul 2, 2012.

  1. kodiakisland

    kodiakisland Member

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    My wife and I were both direct commission, so ROTC is new to us. Our son is applying for the AROTC scholarship and has two schools of choice.

    What I don't understand is how the school is part of the equation of whether or not he gets chosen. I thought the scholarship was a national scholarship that was awarded by a central board, and that the scholarship could be transferred to a different school during the 4 year process.

    What role does the school play in the initial award of the scholarship? Who actually awards and funds the scholarship?

    He will probably be going to his primary choice even if he doesn't get the scholarship and still doing ROTC. We have talked to the PMS at that school and he wasn't very knowledgable about the scholarship program. I guess my biggest question is how can he be awarded a scholarship at one school but not another if both schools have ROTC? It almost seems like its the school making the decision.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
  2. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    You have asked a loaded question and will get many different ideas on how school selection affects the scholarship.

    I'll try and answer a few of your questions in short explanations, others will expand I'm sure.

    Yes the scholarship is National, the applicant lists 7 schools on the application, I believe at least 3 out of 7 now are required to be Public Schools. The scholarships are awarded by a central board at Cadet Command. The board also assigns the scholarship to one or more of the schools the applicant lists. The schools ROTC battalions have no say other then to check yes or no next to each applicant that lists their school prior to the applicant being reviewed by the board.

    If an applicant is awarded a school that they decide not to attend they can apply to have the scholarship transferred, this has it's own set of challenges. Transfers are not a guarantee and it depends on a lot of factors, which can be explained later.

    A scholarship from AROTC has no effect on whether a student is accepted to the college.

    Cadet Command funds the scholarships, not the schools.

    Now the subject that will get the most attention, school selection. Very competitive schools that attract a lot of applicants will be more difficult to obtain a scholarship. Listing all expensive Private and Out of State schools will lessen the applicants chances as well.

    During the last year and a half the number of schools Cadet Command offers a scholarship for each applicant has been greatly reduced. A few years ago it was not uncommon that an applicant that received a scholarship was awarded to several, sometimes up to 5 schools. This is not the case anymore, an applicant is lucky to receive a scholarship to one or maybe two schools, and it is not always the applicant's number one school choice. 4 year scholarships are being awarded less and less, the trend seems to be 3 year Advanced Designee Scholarships especially to more expensive schools.

    To sum up, Cadet command awards the scholarship to a specific school from the applicants list, even though all the schools listed have AROTC.

    Listing a mix of schools that include an In State Public School will help the applicants chances.

    The best thing your son can do since he seems to already made his school selection, is to apply for the scholarship, list the school as his number on choice and hope for the best. If he is awarded a scholarship to a different school he can apply for a transfer, a lot of factors will go into whether the transfer is approved.

    1) Is the school in he same Brigade
    2) Is the school equal or less expensive.
    3) Does the ROTC Cadre support the transfer
    4) Is there room for a scholarship cadet at the school.

    If the answer is yes to all the above then the chances are a little better for a transfer approval.

    I hope this helps a little, I'm sure many others will chime in. Look for answers fro Clarkson Army, and Marist College, they are current ROO's
     
  3. kodiakisland

    kodiakisland Member

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    Thanks. That helps us better understand the process.

    His primary school is a small state school, but is not the battalion HQ. The Battalion HQ is a larger state school that has 4 state school and 2 private school ROTC programs attached to it. I have no idea how many applicants they get, and if the total for the battalion is spread among the schools or if each individual school has a quota.

    As I said before, he will probably go to the primary school even if he doesn't get the scholarship. Tuition will be taken care of either way. He would possibly go to his second choice if they offered him the scholarship and the primary didn't. He is only listing the two schools as choices, as its doubtful he would go elsewhere even with a scholarship. He will be accepted at either school so that won't be an issue.

    How does this work? Does cadet command send them the application prior to review? I assume he will do the interview at the Battalion HQ for his primary school. Should he also try to get some face time with the ROTC program at his second choice?


    His primary school is Arkansas Tech and the battalion HQ is University of Central Arkansas. His second choice is the University of Arkansas. I really wouldn't think they have a large number of applicants, but may not have many slots either.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2012
  4. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    We see his whole file in our system (CCIMS). The PMS that does the interview has the ability to recommend whether to offer, and each school gets a "board ready" list that they can check yes or no. Usually the only reason to check no is if the student, based on their stats, probably won't be accepted to the school. It is always good to keep in contact with all the schools you are looking at. You have a pretty short list, so staying in close contact with both schools shouldn't be a problem. Have your son email the ROO and express his interest. Have him ask a well thought out question, and be honest with number two. If he does get a 4 year at number 2, and number 1 is what he wants I would say he has a good chance at a transfer, but it may be downgraded to a 3AD. Still not a bad deal.

    One thing Jcleppe didn't mention. The scholarships are awarded based on what the schools allocations are. If all of AT's scholarships have been given before they get down to your son's name he won't get an offer. One thing they did do this year was to go back and make 3 year offers to applicants that were high on the OML, but didn't have the right schools on their list.

    I would also suggest contacting U of CA and ask them if they even allocate scholarships to AT. In my battalion we have a school that we have told Cadet Command not to make any offers to. If AT is low cost they may rely on the SMP program or student aid to help their cadets pay for college. Don't get your feelings hurt if they don't. Might be a good question to ask at the interview "how many to AT, and if none, can I earn a campus based scholarship?"
     
  5. kodiakisland

    kodiakisland Member

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    Thanks for the info. It's becoming a lot clearer now.
     
  6. educateme

    educateme Member

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    I disagree with the statement that ROTC scholarship has no bearing on the school admission. It depends.

    In some schools, the ROTC officers have a great deal of "persuasive" power. They can move a needle. In some other schools, no. For instance, one PMS in a battalion serving a very well known prestigious school and three good schools, said they have no influence over the admissions in the prestigious school, but they have a great deal of influence at the other three schools.

    My son was a borderline case at a highly competitive private school he is attending now (rising sophomore). His SAT was was top 10% of their incoming freshman, but his GPA was a problem. Hence a borderline case. He got the 4 year ROTC scholarship to this school which was his first choice. Prior to board evaluation for the scholarship selection, he went to see the PMS and the recruiting officer. Apparently, he managed to impress them very much. This school happens to be a school where the ROTC officers have a very very synergistic relationship with the admissions officers. I know for a fact that the officers really pulled for him and advocated for him with the admissions officer assigned to my son's case. In turn, the said admissions officer really advocated for my son to the admissions committee.

    We know all this since the said admissions officer later sent me email right after we dropped him off at the school last fall (we got to know each other since we dropped by at his office on the move-in day: also turned out we share some important and interesting things on the personal side). In that email, he pretty much acknowledged what was discussed between him and the ROTC officers. My son ended up being on dean's list and then chosen as the best cadet among the freshmen in this battalion. The admissions officer good naturedly congratulated himself for betting on the right horse by listening to the ROTC officers' recommendation.

    What I understand based on my son's experience is that in schools where ROTC officers and admissions officers are working synergistically, the ROTC officers "check" with the admissions officers whether the candidate has any prayer of getting into the school to begin with when they are given an opportunity by the ROTC HQ to comment on the candidates. The ROTC officers do NOT like a situation where the ROTC candidates got the scholarship and chose that school, and then end up denied the admission into the school.

    Like any organization or institution, there is an official policy and then there is HUMAN nature. To assume that there is no relationship between scholarship award and the admissions process is disregarding this basic tenet of any organizational dynamics. In some schools, maybe NO influence. in some other, plenty. In general, the ROTC officers tend to have more influence on the school that is hosting the battalion. Again, this is generality. Exceptions abound.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Best advise...Don't count on it, ask if they have influence, and feel lucky if they can help.

    Educateme is right, there will be exceptions, although not many, doesn't hurt to ask.
     
  8. Marist College ROTC

    Marist College ROTC Member

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    I completely agree with these statements.

    At Marist College I have a great deal of influence with Admissions. At other schools, my influence is negligible at best. I am most influential when I have the most information. If a candidate has been in touch with me since junior year, has visited the campus to meet with me and Admissions, participated in our overnight program, interviewed with me, and discussed academic choices, and post-commissioning plans, I can make a well articulated argument with key players in the Admissions process which includes Admissions reps, academic department heads, athletic coaches, and directors of specialty programs (Debate Team, etc). I will typically get 5 or 6 prospects that need my help to get admitted. I will focus my efforts on the 2 or 3 of these that I have been working with for an extended period of time.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I also agree regarding admissions.

    DS went AFROTC, he was selected for a scholarship in late Dec/early Jan. (1st board). College admissions closed mid Feb., but lo and behold in April he received admission to 2 colleges he did not apply to attend. UNCCH, and NYU Sterns.

    The letter basically read We know you did not apply, but reviewing your records, we would like you to offer you admission. This was a BFE that RD students got.

    US: :eek::eek::eek::eek:

    We came to find out that when AFROTC awards scholarships, they send it out to every AFROTC unit in the country. UNCCH and NYU AFROTC looked into his packet, saw his stats, knew he was a match. They sat on the admissions board at both of these colleges and had an IN.

    One thing I would say is that larger universities may rotate the ROTC branch yrly., so look into that before any assumption. It is kind of like the CoS, you don't always have a 4 star Army as the CoS. Some colleges have a strong ROTC unit, and thus, that branch is usually the one with a voice regarding admissions.

    Just my 0.018624 cents, but please go and visit both schools. Contact the unit and ask to meet them, ask if some cadets can take time to meet your DS.

    Do him and yourself a favor, excuse yourselves, set a pre-arranged time and place to meet. Let him have an hr of being there without the folks. Cadets are kids, they talk and behave differently amongst their peers than they do with folks around. He can walk the campus and get a feel of what 1 yr from now will feel like. You with him every student knows he is in HS. You without him, he is just another student.

    Success in ROTC is not just academics, and PT, it is also about bonding, creating friendships. He will need to want to be there and strive.
     

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