Herndon

[MJOmom]

As someone who was there ... to watch my plebe son ... I also think it was a HUGE let down. My plebe, and many others, were, not quite devistated, but beyond disappointed. Herndon is held as THE end to plebe year ... the time when they get to work to become "Plebes No More" ... it was simply wrong to do this to them

Adm. Fowler says Sea Trials are more important ... bunk. My cousin ... a 1974 USNA Grad and recently retired 06 (Captain) had never heard of Sea Trials ...which by the way were closed to the public this year ...even the end of the event ...

The anti-climatic Herndon, hopefully, will be a blip, much like the 1969 affair when it was not greased ...

When an entire class is told for a year ... just wait for Herndon ... Herdon is great ... Herndon is this etc ... then to dump it ... well, that's not real leadership is it ...

The Alumni Association was REALLY ticked. They sold a fraction of what they expected ...

My bet: The new Supe will bring it back, and only my son's class will have to endure the label of the fake climb ...

 

[Mongo]

I think when Adm Fowler came on board that he felt that the previous administration was catering too much to the parents. Mids stated that they felt as if they were "monkeys in a cage". The first thing he did was take Plebe Parents weekend PEP off the parents schedule. Remember the hue and cry? He has made several other simililar overtones since. Notice that MJOmom states that sea trials are off limits to the public. Notice that MJOmom states that the alumni association is upset that sales are off. Perhaps the two are related.

Risk and reward. Herndon serves absolutely no purpose other than tradition. Nothing is learned. Nothing is gained. If anything, it demostrates the futility of prior planning and leadership. Therefore, since nothing is learned or gained, is it worth the risk of a single midshipman being injured to the extent that he is able to pursue unrestricted line? Perhaps the current administration thinks not. Sea trials, while some may have never heard of them, are competitive team building leadership events. More reward, hence more possible risks.

Maybe the only thing learned this year, and perhaps Adm Fowler's goal, was that the Class of 2013 needed reminded that they were in the military and need to learn to follow orders. That sometimes their leader makes decisions without seeking their advice, as he can do, and that their sole option, no matter how much they dislike it, is to simply obey.

The Class of 2014 has never heard of Herndon and, if it is not continued, will not have it to look forward to. Sea trials will be the replacement.

 

[greeneagle5]

Herndon's future ?

my guess for next year's Herndon Climb.....even if the event is cancelled by the new administration and dropped from the " USNA Calendar" :
a daring group of youngsters or possibly even brazen plebes mount a late night "recon mission" with several buckets of crisco/lard in prep for an " unofficial /slippery" climb the next morning by the 2014 plebe class .

 

[usna1985]

Everyone,

I know this is a "hot" topic right now. I'm inclined to let the debate continue PROVIDED IT STAYS CIVIL. That means no personal attacks on other posters or on the USNA Administration.

You are free to agree or disagree with decisions that the USNA Administration makes or has made. However, please do so respectfully. You don't have to denigrate individuals or engage in vitriol to get your point across. This site promotes civility and courtesy to fellow posters and, as a mod, I enforce that position.

If things veer off course, I'll be forced to close or move the thread. I don't want to do that but this site exists for the benefit of all, not merely a few.

Your friendly mod

 

[MIHOSER]

Let's bring the tradition into the 21st century - maybe they could spray the entire monument with PAM? It's so much neater than lard - healthier too!

 

[MomoftheMagik]

PAM......yeah, and no transfats!

Don't be so sure that the Class of 2014 (and 2015, 2016...) doesn't know about Herndon. My son has wanted to attend USNA most of his life and knows a lot about traditions at the academy, including Herndon. In fact, knowledge of the climb prompted him to learn about Captain Herndon and the sinking of the Central America.

Also, I think the fact that the planning doesn't always necessarily work IS a learning experience. First, they do work together to come up with a plan, which is a positive. Then, if that plan breaks down, which does happen in life and most certainly in war, they have to think fast, plan on the spot and work to conquer the goal together.

I feel the pain of those 2013 Mids and their parents who are disappointed, but remember they have still completed many amazing accomplishments this year. Congratulations to the Class of 2013...Plebes No More!

 

[Luigi59]

Sea trials will be the replacement.

Change for the sake of change, without regard for tradition.

As taxpayers, we are all entitled to examine the leadership at the USNA, and I believe the sooner Jeff Fowler is out the door, the better for USNA.

The place has went downhill on wheels on his watch. He lost the respect of the brigade long ago, his legacy will be poor.

Let's hope the next Supe can restore the USNA to the greatness it once possessed, where honor and integrity mattered, where tradition was respected, and where graduating leaders of character will once again be the primary goal.

 

[marciemi]

Change for the sake of change, without regard for tradition.

Ah, but is that better or worse than what we always hear about West Point:

200 years of tradition, unmarred by progress!

 

[2014-scada]

What about the OZONE?

Let's bring the tradition into the 21st century - maybe they could spray the entire monument with PAM? It's so much neater than lard - healthier too!

All those gasses being released by the cans of PAM will likely displease some group or another...you can't please all of the people all of the time...or was that "fool" instead of "please"...I forget! Moving On!

GO NAVY!

 

[aglages]

Change for the sake of change, without regard for tradition.

As taxpayers, we are all entitled to examine the leadership at the USNA, and I believe the sooner Jeff Fowler is out the door, the better for USNA.

The place has went downhill on wheels on his watch. He lost the respect of the brigade long ago, his legacy will be poor.

Let's hope the next Supe can restore the USNA to the greatness it once possessed, where honor and integrity mattered, where tradition was respected, and where graduating leaders of character will once again be the primary goal.

 

[MIHOSER]

If PAM has a negative environmental effect, how about WD-40? I use that to lubricate almost everything.

 

[Memphis9489]

According to the Navy Times:


So, the class of 2013 was not a record.
Anyone know:
Was lard used prior to 1969? If so why not in 1969?
Were there any other years that Herndon was not greased?

IIRC - a year or two ago the Supe wanted only certain members of the plebe class to participate in Herndon - did that hold?

The Class of 1969's achievement was overshadowed by THEIR decision to "cheat" and use a cargo net. It was because of this that a "rule" was made that no props were allowed: i.e. nets, ladders, ropes, etc.

The Class of 1969 at least got credit for finding a loophole in the "rules" and, using ingenuity, scaled the monument in record time. But that was THEIR decision.

The Class of 2013 was dealt a royal flush. What skill and ingenuity does THAT take? And, the fact that they was a declaration of "No More Plebes" nearly a week beforehand took away any visage of meaning the ceremony had.

 

[Memphis9489]

Memphis: The tongue was intended to be firmly planted in cheek.

I noticed that. But, nonetheless, it gave me an opportunity to go on a rant.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

The Class of 1969's achievement was overshadowed by THEIR decision to "cheat" and use a cargo net. It was because of this that a "rule" was made that no props were allowed: i.e. nets, ladders, ropes, etc.

The Class of 1969 at least got credit for finding a loophole in the "rules" and, using ingenuity, scaled the monument in record time. But that was THEIR decision.

The Class of 2013 was dealt a royal flush. What skill and ingenuity does THAT take? And, the fact that they was a declaration of "No More Plebes" nearly a week beforehand took away any visage of meaning the ceremony had.

It wasn't the Class of 1969 but the class of 1972 in the year 1969.
Interesting though, the article didn't mention that . Any idea why the monument was not greased that year and if there were other years it was not greased.

I am not making a judgment about the Class of 2013 - if they think they got a raw deal then I think they got a raw deal. My remarks were just to get a grip on the history of the climb.

 

[Memphis9489]

I am going to add something of a dissenting opinion here. I don't know whether or not it is a good idea to eliminate the Herndon Climb, but I think it is very unlikely that the Superintendent is going out of his way to propose the elimination of a venerable tradition like this just for the hell of it. Unless we want to question the Supe's honor, we have to accept that he is genuinely concerned about the potential for serious injury. Obviously Herndon does not pose the same risk as the old Texas A&M bonfire, but can anyone rule out the possiblity that a plebe might suffer an injury severe enough to end his navy career before it has even started? Reasonable minds can differ on this point, but I can see how the Supe would consider that too high of a price to pay even for a sacred rite of passage.

I am also very willing to believe that there is a legitimate debate to be had about the best way to wrap up plebe year. Sea Trials may not be the answer, but I would not lightly dismiss the idea that the capstone of plebe year can and should be something more profound than climbing up a greased obelisk.

Who has a greater chance of a career-ending injury, a Navy running back or a Plebe trying to climb Herndon? I'm guessing, statistically, that the football player hold a FAR greater chance. Does that mean we are going to eliminate Navy football?

The level of a participation in the Herndon climb is completely voluntary. In fact, it is IMPOSSIBLE for every member of the class to participate. Many choose NOT to participate and to simply cheer their classmates on. Nonetheless, it is a great spectacle of teamwork and persistence.

Substituting a company-vs-company event in Sea Trials (as I've heard has been proposed) is not nearly the same thing. What always made Herndon so special is that it was truly a class effort. No companies, no battalions, no regiments ... just PLEBES!

The fact that 8th company got singled out and announced as the "winners" of Sea Trials just prior to sounding the cannon for Herndon was contrary to the tradition of Herndon.

 

[Memphis9489]

my guess for next year's Herndon Climb.....even if the event is cancelled by the new administration and dropped from the " USNA Calendar" :
a daring group of youngsters or possibly even brazen plebes mount a late night "recon mission" with several buckets of crisco/lard in prep for an " unofficial /slippery" climb the next morning by the 2014 plebe class .

I was walking around the Yard late at night prior to Herndon. There were actually security guards posted around the monument. My guess, it was to prevent the very thing you describe above.

The upperclassmen were under orders NOT to grease the monument. And the security force was there, in my opinion, to ensure that order was not violated with some kind of "recon raid."

 

[Mongo]

Change for the sake of change, without regard for tradition.

As taxpayers, we are all entitled to examine the leadership at the USNA, and I believe the sooner Jeff Fowler is out the door, the better for USNA.

The place has went downhill on wheels on his watch. He lost the respect of the brigade long ago, his legacy will be poor.

Let's hope the next Supe can restore the USNA to the greatness it once possessed, where honor and integrity mattered, where tradition was respected, and where graduating leaders of character will once again be the primary goal.

Tradition for the sake of tradition, without regard for change.

Admiral Fowler inherited a can of worms and has had a very tough uphill battle restoring some semblence of order.

 

[Luigi59]

Admiral Fowler inherited a can of worms and has had a very tough uphill battle restoring some semblence of order.

He failed. Miserably.

Perhaps his successor can undo the damage. I sure hope so. It's a shame that graduating officers with honor and character took a backseat to the "new" #1 priority of the USNA that occurred on Fowler's watch.

 

[Memphis9489]

It wasn't the Class of 1969 but the class of 1972 in the year 1969.
Interesting though, the article didn't mention that . Any idea why the monument was not greased that year and if there were other years it was not greased.

I am not making a judgment about the Class of 2013 - if they think they got a raw deal then I think they got a raw deal. My remarks were just to get a grip on the history of the climb.

Thanks for the correction. You're right - it was the Class of '72 in 1969.

Maybe the reason they used a cargo net was to make a further mockery of the monument not being greased. It may have been the Plebes way of saying, "We'll show YOU who can outsmart who."

 

[2013MidDad]

Dangerous Color Parade

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/news/nav/2010/05/27-79/Heat-sickens-midshipmen-spectators-at-Color-Parade.html

For the love of God, stop this Color Parade madness. This silly 143 year tradition serves no legitimate purpose (training, leadership, or otherwise). After all, if problem solving and working as a team to accomplish the task of climbing a greased monument serves no purposes, then what can we really say about getting dressed up in what amount to costumes and marching around and standing out on a field? Why must we always cater to the demands and desires of parents, alums and townspeople and expose these good Midshipmen to the unnecessary risk of unusual amounts of sunshine, yes, sunshine, for the sole purpose of simply showing them off and having them salute? Maintaining this tradition, merely for the sake of tradition, and without regard for the possibility of change? -- I think not!! The Supe should have looked up from that field, felt the sun on his face, and made the decision now to restore some semblence of order and stop endangering those in his charge. Why not simply reschedule the Ring Dance to a later date and allow it to be a replacement for this more risky Color Parade? You know, indoors ... with air conditioning. I feel sorry for the next Supe who will later have to face this issue.