Honors Program at College

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by d.mcknight, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. d.mcknight

    d.mcknight Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    So if I don't get into USNA this year, I will most likely be going to San Diego State University and doing NROTC, then will reapply for the class of 2016. I've been accepted to SDSU and just got an e-mail inviting me to apply for the University Honors Program.

    Now here's my question: if I'm going to get in a year of college and to reapply, would the Honors Program be a good idea or would it be better if I just go a normal route and take regular classes? Would my responsibilities for NROTC get in the way, or would I be fine?
     
  2. FloridaDad

    FloridaDad Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would do a major that had a five year bachelors and masters program.
     
  3. d.mcknight

    d.mcknight Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    What do you mean? I'm not quite sure what you are talking about...
     
  4. blueridge

    blueridge Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    56
    Likes Received:
    0
    Honors program

    My DD was selected for an Honors College at her university (DD not military academy or ROTC) and this was an excellent program. The students chosen were not only chosen based on academics, but also based on leadership abilities. She had fewer students in her classes, (more teacher time) and her fellow students were simply amazing. I can't begin to tell you all of the perks that came with the honors college at her university.

    DD excelled in this situation. It is an honor. Any honor should help your application for the USNA.

    It is your choice, but it is an honor to be selected and there are great opportunities to excel in this situation.
     
  5. singaporemom

    singaporemom Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    884
    Likes Received:
    6
    Take every opportunity that comes your way. Every honor, academic or otherwise will improve your USNA application, and you should never turn down anything that will help you achieve your goals. Whether you end up at USNA or not, SDSU honors program is a great opportunity.

    Go AZTECS!!!
    Singaporemom
    SDSU Class of 1987
     
  6. cjs

    cjs Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    3

    It is my understating that the ROTC scholarship is designed for you to graduate in 4 years. At least the Army is.
    Are they guaranteeing your son that he can indeed attend school for 5 years?
     
  7. arewethereyet

    arewethereyet Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    honors program

    My DS has also applied to USAFA, USNA and NROTC...he has applied to an honors program at one of his back up schools. Like blueridge said, those selected are chosed for academics as well as leadership and extracurricular involvement. The smaller class sizes are a plus as well. Sounds like the honors program would be a good fit for you-and look good on a future application if necessary! Good luck :smile:
     
  8. luckymacy

    luckymacy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    0
    My son's been offered AFROTC and NROTC scholarships and along the way the question was raised about taking 5 years instead of 4 to complete the degree. The AF answer was No Problem, happens often for enginerring type degrees. All student has to do is get college program advisor to fill out a 5 year student plan/syllabus and turn it in to the AF Det. Appears to be almost automatically accepted and AF will pay for the 5. Navy ROTC answer was more like Maybe, done on a case by case basis, but not encouraged.

    Both ROTC programs stated they like cadets to be in Honors programs because as they say, the honors programs require the kids to keep higher GPAs than the ROTC rules require and usually offer additional support and resources for the kids to help them get and maintain the higher GPA.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    Our DS is in the Honors program for the past 3yrs as an AFROTC scholarship cadet.

    The one thing is to read the fine print of the program. For example, it is a req at his university to do an internship during the academic yr. (summer does not count). On top of that they also have a seminar, thus, for him at one point he was carrying 20 credits and interning 20 hrs a week on the Hill, plus ROTC and AAS.

    Another program that is honors actually makes you submit a dissertation (150 pages) to get that citation.

    It is good to take the program, for many reasons...specialized housing, merit money, smaller classes are just a few. However, as an ROTC student it is important to understand you must balance both school and ROTC. For some, especially those that are doing x-town for ROTC, this course load can be pretty intense from a time mgmt issue.


    I would also look into the 5 yr program and the scholarship situation. Scholarships are tied to the major. Thus, they may do it often for an engineering major, and not so often for a Management major. The AFROTC has a limited pot of money and the purpose for ROTC is to become officers. When they give the scholarship they expect you to enter in that yr. If every cadet now did the dual program, they would have a manning issue. Remember there are approx. 5K cadets. That would greatly slow down the pipeline if all of the sudden 1K of each yr backed up their entry date.

    The reason I also state that is because the AF has a Tuition Assistance program for military members. This is where they pay 75% of your college while you are on AD. The catch is you will owe time back...it runs concurrent. It is 3 yrs from the last TA payment. Now if you start on day one, you basically would owe back 1 more yr than your original 4.
     
  10. FloridaDad

    FloridaDad Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    0
    He hasn't asked yet but we know others that have done it. One is doing nursing and I believe the Army approved and are paying for her masters. A couple of advantages for her are being promoted quicker because she will have a masters plus she will be closer to being a PA, RNP or maybe something like CRNA.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    For AFROTC nursing is the red headed cousin even when it comes to scholarships. Ag's DD is AFROTC and nursing, but they were told that because she is nursing, the scholarship is a 3 yr scholarship...no tier 1 opportunity based purely on her intended major/career field.

    Our close friend's DD just graduated from nursing school, it is highly competitive, plus, they have different tiers, it took her 5 yrs and she didn't get a Masters, it was because she is an RN, and not an LN, which requires more education, plus to get that degree she had to intern full time for 1 semester in a hospital.

    I might have it backwards re: RN and LN, but the point is one of them requires more education than the other, so the program is really 5 and not 4. It would be like getting a degree in physical sciences compared to getting an engineer degree. Physical science is 4, engineering is 5 according to the school's reqs. ROTC will bow to them regarding the scholarship.

    Nurses in every branch are always in high demand.

    Finally as far as promotion goes for the AD world, at least for the AF. They are segregated by career fields. Line and non-line. Line are fliers, intel, accounting, etc. Non line than have their specific boards. Chaplains go up against chaplains. Medical has their own, and JAG has their own. Their promotion rates vary and how quickly the boards meet vary too.

    I.E. Medical could meet for O4 at 9 yrs with 85% promotion, while the line could meet at 10 with 80%. Or vise a verse. It is all about the current manpower needs of the service.

    There were yrs (back in 97-01) that line boards were speeding up and had high promotion rates, while the med boards were slowing down with low promotion rates.

    There were 2 main reasons for this:
    1. Every airline in the world was hiring so fliers were leaving. They needed to keep them.
    2. The AF was re-jigging the medical system and actually closing down a lot of the military hospitals or contracting to save costs.

    OIF occurred and things changed because now the medical personnel that they cut loose to save costs by contracting were in short supply, so they needed to get more in and promote at a faster pace.

    It all is about manpower needs and that starts as early as ROTC.

    FWIW, in the AF Masters is masked until O5, I believe that is true for all of the branches. Masking means they do not know who has a Masters and who doesn't when the board meets. To them none of you have one. Thus, you will not get promoted faster as an O3 to O4 because you have a Masters. You will not get promoted O4 to O5 faster because of the Masters either, since at that time it is all about what you did, not what degree you hold when it comes to be promoting below zone (BPZ). It is true, no Masters for an O5 and the chances of getting promoted greatly decrease, but than again, O5 happens @ the 15-16 yr marker, so there is a lot of time to get it if you are in for the long haul.

    OBTW, going back to the 5 yr and sign a paper, I do know it happens. Bullet changed majors in college which caused him to stay around longer. The AFROTC signed off on it. However, again, that was when money was flowing, and so it is important to understand that what happened ly for someone at one school might not happen for someone else ty at another school.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  12. FloridaDad

    FloridaDad Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    0
    RN degrees take four years just like any other degree. If you take the right path promotions will be accelerated. For instance you can get to CRNA two years after graduating with a degree. Market value in civi street is around $180k a year so there is a very good chance they will leave the military without incentives.
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    Very true.

    I will say as a military spouse, the ones that I saw leave as nurses, had nothing to do with careers. Everything to do with they fell in love with an AD member:rolleyes:

    That being stated.

    Please link.

    An O3 Nurse 8 yrs AD will not meet the O4 board if the the AF is only looking at people with 9 yrs as a BPZ.

    Boards have yr groups.

    BPZ is traditionally 2 boards below IPZ
    IPZ is 2 boards
    APZ is 2 above IPZ

    They may get "job" promotions, but that does not equate to career promotion boards.

    Time and grade matter for promotion regarding rank.

    Look at Major General John Hesterman
    http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=8979
    Bullet attended XTU with him, he is one the fastest track burners I know in the AF. Pay attention to how long he had to be an O6. He was BPZ, O4/5 and 6, BUT because his yr group he spent 7 yrs as an O6 before being promoted to O7.

    Why? Because according to the military he had to have X yrs in before pinning on. Notice from BG to MG. it happened very quick.

    He is not the only one. Here's Mark Graper..again someone we know from AD life
    http://www.af.mil/information/bios/bio.asp?bioID=8310

    Notice his promotion rate between O6 and O7. Same as Hesterman.
    Now take into the effect that he is behind Hesterman, you can see how fast track Hesterman is for the AF.

    My point is promotion in the AD world is tied to yrs served, not the job. OBTW you will also notice obtaining O3 is time, neither of them got promoted to O3 under 4 yrs., because that is the AF parameter for O3. Both made O4 in 9, because again that was the 1st opportunity for BPZ. Both of them were 2 yrs BPZ O4, 2 yrs BPZ O5, and 2 yrs BPZ for O6, that is why they had to wait 6/7 yrs to pin on O7.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  14. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    You know Pima when my daughter becomes your daughter-in-law you are going to get this straight. Of course by then things will have changed...again.:wink:

    For AFROTC: Nursing used to be considered a technical major. It isn't any longer. Because it isn't a technical major the odds of getting a Type 1 or 2 HSSP Scholarship are not very good. All the HSSP awardees that my daughter has met (from various colleges) were all awarded 4 year Type 7 scholarships. This was from last years AFROTC board. One young lady traded hers in for a 3 year Type 2 so that she could attend an OOS college.

    Fortunately the AFROTC does consider Nursing a profession that they need and at least as of today are supposedly offering In-College 3 year and 3.5 year Type 2 Express Scholarships to students currently enrolled in an approved BSN program.
    http://afrotc.com/admissions/professional-programs/nursing/

    I say supposedly because while my daughter has helped "recruit" some freshman nursing students into AFROTC that have applied for these Express Nursing Scholarships....none have received one yet. In fairness, none of the other applicants (engineering, foreign language ect) have received an Express Scholarship yet this year at her college either. Is the AF cutting back on these because of the RIF? I don't know. It may just be a matter of time before these Express Scholarships are approved and it isn't anything to worry about.

    My daughter knows a 5th year AROTC nursing student at her college. He actually graduated with his BSN this past Spring but the Army is paying for a 5th year for some graduate degree that he is pursuing. At least for the Army it seems as though 5 years is an option for some. None (that she knows) of the students in her AFROTC Detachment are 5th year college students. Of course these experiences are mostly limited to one school and YMMV.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    Ag, unless she wants to marry younger (DS2), as much as I would be proud to call her DIL, it won't be happening with DS1 ---he's very committed to his gf :rolleyes:

    I am not sure how far off the mark I was :confused:

    I stated that for AFROTC they do not give 5 yrs for nursing. You stated that for your DD that is not happening either.

    Thus, for AFROTC to believe that you ask and you will receive is a fallacy.

    Just like scholarships, service branches matter. For the Army it appears that this is a GO, for the AF, this is NOT a go. BEST ADVICE contact Maxwell or the det to see how frequently this happens re: 4 to 5 yr for a Masters program. No harm, no foul when it comes to asking. Big harm/foul if you don't ask and think it is common.

    My point has been and always will be:

    1. Branches vary...Navy has their deal and they are not identical to the AF or Army.
    2. Things change every yr with every branch.

    I am what we call in the military "short". I have already decided recently that I will be leaving this forum within the next yr...3-6 or so months. Just going to stick around to help those going through SFT and AFSC.

    My experience is becoming dated regarding scholarships and I could do more harm than good. I am going to stick around for AFSC and SFT because that is current for me, but if you want true up to date info, AG is the go to.

    I appreciate those who respect me for my posts, but it is time for me to say I am long in the tooth, and the best I can do is acknowledge that.

    Ag, it is time to step up and be that voice who has walked not AFROTC, NROTC, AFA, USNA for this forum.

    Mods...make AG a MOD!
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    OBTW we forgot to address the fact the promotions in the AD world is tied to yrs served.

    End of the day, below promotions are @ a decade plus out, on a good day, for a candidate we are talking 30 yrs old... the avg 17/18 yo can not envision being 30!

    That is if the AF does BPZ at 8 yrs. Reality is for the current AF O4 is 32-34...@ 2x their current age.
     
  17. aglages

    aglages Parent

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,680
    Likes Received:
    4
    Pima....sorry for the confusion. I interpreted your post to read that the AFROTC program was only awarding 3 year HPPS scholarships for nursing. I must have misinterpreted.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    Actually this thread is getting diverted off topic regardless of our posts.

    It was created about Honors programs. Let's get back to that issue.

    Honors is doable, and you should do it...especially as a candidate who wants to re-apply for an SA since your PAR will be looked at the board for the WCS. Harder curriculum, better you look, that will be a factor for your WCS when it comes to apptmts.

    SAs on a whole like candidates that are repeats, it shows dedication. You also should talk to the CoC now and tell them that you intend to apply again next yr. Want to tick them off quickly, don't tell them! Our DS actually took AFROTC over the AFA, his CoC approached him to ask if he wanted to try again (he didn't), Good leaders will support you.

    Best wishes and hopes to you.

    Agagles, again time to step up and payback. You are a gold mine for NROTC, AFROTC, AFA, and USNA. They need you and your advice.
     
  19. d.mcknight

    d.mcknight Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you very much. That post was really helpful. Who would the CoC be?
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    It would be your Commander (Commander of Corps = CoC).

    The reason it is important to put that out there ASAP is because within weeks of getting there you will want them to also nom you for an ROTC nom.

    CoC's of large dets/bns can have 50 in each yr group. For AFROTC come fall as a C200 (soph) they will start sorting and reviewing these cadets to make sure their files are competitive for SFT.

    For C300's (jrs) the CoC is prepping their files for their AFSC, which means writing recs for each and everyone of them.

    That is placed on top of their duties of writing OPR, EPR and PRF for their AD members within the unit.

    On top of that they also need to address how C100's are faring and status on C400's, plus overseeing the semester reviews for all 200 cadets.

    It is a lot of paperwork. Coming to them in Oct and saying OBTW I need a rec by next week for the ROTC nom will not place you in a favorable light. You don't want them to be upset at you for blind siding them as they tell the SA how great you are.

    Take the Honors program, because remember 60% of the WCS is PAR, Honors is going to carry weight.

    Finally, the SA's love repeaters because to them it says you are dedicated to get this dream, and not oh well, if I get it great, if not that is fine too.
     

Share This Page