How are Setbacks viewed by the Regiment of Midshipman

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by 2013Parent, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    My question is posted here for input and response by current or former midshipman.

    The term Setback here is referring to the noun, the person...The Setback.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I have heard (yes, those nasty rumors again) that Setbacks are treated much less than positively by the regiment as a whole....to be specific, berated by company officers, belittled by those in charge, excluded and forbidden from participating in certain activities (ie the recent recognition 'events') etc. etc. Almost to the point that the class they were a part of does not want to have anything to do with them, and the class they are now part of does not either, so they are "midshipmen without a country" per se.

    So, I just want to know is this all just a rumor or is there something to it?

    Thanks
     
  2. BillSL

    BillSL USMA Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    Messages:
    910
    Likes Received:
    1
    Forgive my ignorance - who is considered a setback?
     
  3. KP2010

    KP2010 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Setbacks in my class blended in perfectly fine. It got to the point where you even forget they are setbacks and they're just part of your class. The only thing I've seen is a push to throw some who were setbacks into leadership roles whether they want to or not when they are 1/C. I think it just makes you twice as many close nit friends.
     
  4. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    156
    I know setbacks who go to multiple reunions and are mentioned in multiple class notes in the KPer. I always felt like they were M/N with "dual citizenship" vice "without a country".

    Some of my best friends were setbacks and I often forget they were and some I only found out after graduation that they were setback.
     
  5. debcst

    debcst Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think setbacks are cadets who repeat a year.
     
  6. donar

    donar Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tri

    More like a Trimester
     
  7. shutterbugC

    shutterbugC Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Setback are kids who failed a couple of classes, sent home to redo those classes in a regular college and returned to redo the whole year again, including the classes they failed and retook back at home.
    I believe Setbacks are not going to be as common as they were with the last Commander. From what I heard, he feels that if you fail a couple of classes, then you are out and there isn't any setbacks.
     
  8. KPMarineopsdad

    KPMarineopsdad Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    287
    Likes Received:
    0
    My son's class had about 20 set backs and I never heard of them being treated differently. Neither have I heard of any stigma be attached to setbacks. He simply referred to them as his classmates. Now, he refers to them as his fellow alumni.
     
  9. wac2013

    wac2013 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    the only setbacks that i know of that are really treated less positively (there's usually a few setback jabs that are meant in good fun) are those that would have most likely been treated less positively regardless of their setback status, as a result of their attitude, work ethic, or personality. in these cases, it is most often these same qualities that led to their being set back in the first place.
     
  10. cmakin

    cmakin Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    74
    Agreed. In my class, we had a set of brothers. One was set back from the previous year. At the risk of putting their names out there, I will leave of the first names, but the family name was Turn.

    Yeah, the were called "Turn" and "Re-Turn". . . .
     
  11. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Makes sense.

    Guess it was a rumor.....my DS heard of a couple Companies that ORDERED the setbacks to stay away from the Recognition activities.......he must have something wrong...........so, that just seemed less than postive to me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  12. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes Received:
    17
    My experience 28 years ago and what I see in my son's class and seems to be conveyed in wac2013's note are basically the same. The answer was then and seems to be now - it depends. It depended then on what someone was setback for and how they acted once they returned to the Academy to resume their studies. By and large, most of the setbacks into my Class and there were ~10 way back then and from my Class into the one behind it were treated the same as anyone else, though as noted there are still to this day several who get the benefit of being treated as part of two Classes.

    We didn't have any in my Class but I recall a couple of setbacks in two classes ahead of mine who had been setback for something that was Honor Board related that everyone felt should have been dismissed that most people pretty much left to themselves. However, I don't recall of anyone going out of their way either way to hinder them in any way. Also there was one setback into my Class that just basically for whatever reason choose to keep to himself and get through his final two years (2nd Class year being his "do over") without participating in much of anything else but being a "Park Ranger." But my recollection is that was his choice.
     
  13. LLPirate

    LLPirate Mother, Mother Ocean...

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a setback I can speak from experience. The person who makes it the hardest is THE SETBACK.

    For myself my new classmates and former classmates treated me the same and my new class just wanted to get to know me. Of course I was scared of this when I returned but it was unwarranted. As for your fellow setbacks most form their own “class” per say and dub themselves class of 0000.5 as a joke.

    Most mids at the academy are too busy with their own stuff to worry or focus on other’s class standing. It’s hard academically and everyone even those with outstanding grades recognize this fact. If you have the guts to hang in there and return as a setback typically others respect that.

    Three of my former classmates were in my wedding so I’d say those bonds don’t break due to class status. Best advice I can give. If your mid knows of setback let them set the tone. If they want to talk about it fine, if not let it be. It's a very personal topic and it takes The Setback time to come to terms with it.
     
  14. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    156
    Like Jasper said ... those with discipline type setbacks are very different from academic or medical type setbacks. You can also lump in those who the general feeling was they should have received at least a setback if not worse and all they got were some demerits. They were not viewed favorably by their classmates.

    I also concur with LLPirate since we are/were former classmates ... once a classmate, always a classmate.
     
  15. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    353
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks.....I did not even know there were disipline setbacks......

    My guy did confirm the setbacks in his company and one other he knew about (did not know about the other three) were indeed specifically communicated with/ordered to stay away from the Recognition activities.... I would guess this was a company by company thing, but it did happen. Is that unusual?
     
  16. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    834
    Likes Received:
    156
    Were these setbacks the class of 2014 who had already been recognized before being setback? I don't recall that being the case in my hears but it doesn't strike me as unusual. In the case of "super plebes" I can see where you wouldn't want them around. They are kind of in between classes at this point really and it strikes me there there is some potential for problems.

    I don't really remember much of my own recognition but I definitely remember causing some mischief as an upperclassman during recognition. :shake:

    I can recall at least three discipline setbacks off the top of my head. Both for similar type "indiscretions" shall we say. They used to put out an "X-Y report" a couple times a year that would highlight all the discipline issues each semester. The names were changed to M/N X and M/N Y, hence the name. I recall it being very enlightening and sobering. Anyone know if they still do that?
     
  17. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,153
    Likes Received:
    113
    I couldn't even tell you without really thinking who was a setback into my class. In general my thoughts were always "who cares?" Never treated or saw them treated any different that our "original" classmates.
     
  18. El Bombero Jr.

    El Bombero Jr. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Is it true that KP will not be granting setbacks next year?
     
  19. deepdraft1

    deepdraft1 Master, Ocean Steam or Motor Vessels, unlimited

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2009
    Messages:
    266
    Likes Received:
    13
    This is from a page dedicated to Set-Backs in my son’s plebe year annual…
    From what I gather looking at the photos on this yearbook page, there’s quite a cast of ‘ne'er-do-well’ ‘characters’ all looking like they're having fun and enjoying the 'typical college experience'. There are pictures of 'club members' “Shady JD”, “Weasle”, “Creeper”, “El Nino” and “Doctor” to name a few.. Judging by the photos, I would say that most of them would more likely be found hanging out at Kings Point Park after hours, than studying or attending ‘social functions’ on campus.. and MAYBE that's one of the reasons they were set back. It also seems like more than a few of the 530 CLUB members were my son’s former rugby teammates.. :eek:
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  20. wac2013

    wac2013 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    yep, they still put out the XYZ reports. and yep, everyone still knows exactly who theyre talking about:wink: i agree, in many cases quite enlightening.

    i may be able to shed some light on the "banned from recognition" issue. recognition this year was EXTREMELY "regimented", you might say. we (the non-training staff) were given EXPLICIT instructions to avoid ALL recognition activities under the very real threat of being stuck on the spot. as far as setbacks go: this year in particular was an odd one for the setbacks into the class of 2014, because the boundaries as to "plebe" "superplebe" and "4th class" were very blurred and varied by company. hence, some setbacks were treated as regular plebes, e.g. squaring, PKTs, etc. others were basically given 4th class M/N rates but still considered part of 2014. i can see why some CTOs or COs would want to keep recognition for the plebes alone, instead of for someone who may have already been through the ceremony. i cant speak as to the details of the situation, but that is what i suspect happened, and as is the usual case, it is possible that some individuals got the short end of the stick as the result of whatever policy was put in place. but like i said, that's pretty typical. all in all, i doubt there was any bad intention on the part of the people making the calls as it regards to 4th class setbacks.
     

Share This Page