How common is a max AROTC interview score?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by 89Bison, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. 89Bison

    89Bison Member

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    In general terms, how common is a max 200 score on the AROTC PMS interview? And, in this competitive environment, is it close to being a "must-have"...a "necessary but not sufficient" kind of asset?
     
  2. educateme

    educateme Member

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    I think it should be quite common. When you look at the score sheet, it's not that difficult to get the max points.
     
  3. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I would think it's not as common as one would think, there are a lot of applicants that seem to be very strong in one area but not in another. Many lose points on the athletics and leadership section. Even if they max out the first page the second page is very subjective and depending on the PMS they may not be so quick to give max points on that back page unless the applicant is truly exceptional.

    I don't think there are any true stats that show the percentage of 200 max point scores for the interview.

    The front page of the interview sheet is usually where an applicant may miss some points, things such as Leadership, academics, and sports. This part of the interview is more fill in the blanks, you either have what it's looking for or not.

    The back page is more subjective and gives the PMS more latitude.

    I have 2 son's that have gone through the process, neither were told whether they received the max points. One thing to remember is that the PMS has a spot on the interview sheet to give additional comments, this is the place they can add comments and make recommendations that might make up for points lost on the first page.

    I would not think that having an interview score below the max 200 would be a deal breaker. There were applicants that posted last year that had max scores and did not receive the scholarship and applicants that did not have the max score that did receive one. They really do look at the whole person.

    Consider that an applicant with a 3.0 and a 24 ACT and at least one AP course will get the max points for the academic section but in the overall board that may not be enough to be competitive.

    A 200 interview score is always nice, the recommendation the PMS writes will be more important and the whole person score will be the most important.

    Has your son/daughter already had their interview.

    We all wish you good luck
     
  4. MNDad2015

    MNDad2015 Member

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    Here's my take on this subject, at least in terms of AROTC. The first page is based on information mostly from your application. The second page is make it or break it time. The PMS (or whomever conducts the interview) will be using a lot of that information to enter notes into your file, which any ROTC battalion can look at once it's on-line. Most important is the last section where the PMS not only signs and dates things, but makes their recommendation as to whether or not they feel you wold make a good officer and are worthy of receiving a scholarship.

    Be prepared. Do some research on the battalion, have questions to ask in case things aren't addressed before or during the interview, dress nicely (but not overkill), etc. Interviews are a two way conversation, not just fielding and answering questions. Use the opportunity to expand on important aspects of information in your application, important updates, or to add things that you might have overlooked. And last, if a question requires just a yes or no answer, keep it to that along with sir or maam (not like someone that I once interviewed for a job that started their reponse to a question with "Well you know dude, it's like this.").
     
  5. Marist College ROTC

    Marist College ROTC Member

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    None of the students that I interviewed that got less than 180 received the scholarship. One student that got 180 did receive the scholarship. Less than half of the students that received a 200 received the scholarship.
     
  6. mariner116

    mariner116 Member

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    A big chunck of the overall merit score come from the cadet command review. Where do these reviewers get the information they use to allocate their points? I have long believed that a major part of their scoring comes from the PMS commentary. The PMS commentary on the interview will greatly influence the ~300 points that come from CC. Bottom line, the interview is very important but the formal points don't tell the whole story.
     
  7. educateme

    educateme Member

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    I am not surprised by marist comment that hardly anyone got a scholarship without perfect interview points, and then only half of perfect score applicants got the scholarship.

    When I looked into it last year, I felt that bar is set pretty low for max scores for scholar, athlete and leader dimensions. For instance, if I remember correctly, if you have taken any AP class, and your SAT is over 1200, that already gets you a max score for the academic part. This is not a hard thing to pull off. Regarding the subjective assessment by the PMS, well, it does not take a genius to get the full points. You need to be coherent & sincere, looks dedicated for the military career,and be respectful. I don't think PMS sits there expecting the applicants to deliver a nobel prize winning thesis on meaning of life and the role of US military in the post modern society.

    Given that scholar, athlete, and leader aspects are scored again and again during the board evaluation phase, and the PMS interview max score criterion is pretty easy to meet in these dimensions, I wouldn't be surprised if a vast majority of the scholarship winners got max scores, and it's a really uphill battle for anyone without the max PMS interview score to receive a scholarship.

    Especially, the competition is getting tougher and tougher: so getting max points in the PMS interview is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition by any stretch of imagination.
     
  8. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    To receive the max points for the academic section of the interview sheet you must have the minimum of a 3.0 GPA, 24 ACT or 1100 SAT, and at least one AP course.

    The standards for the interview are just that, a way to set a baseline standard, that's why it's worth just 200 points toward the applicants overall score. Though as Marist said, receive less then a 180 along with the stiffer competition your chances will drop.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2011
  9. educateme

    educateme Member

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    this is precisely my point. on the academic front, this standard is set so low, the scoring guide will give you the max score for the "scholar" part for the stats that fall short of what you need to get into most of the flagship state universities and I am not even talking about the likes of Berkeley, UVA, U Michigan, etc. I recall the standards for the athlete and leadership for the max score were not daunting at all either.

    My opinion, which will get you a cup of coffee with $1.87 (local starbucks: $1.89), is, if your PMS interview score is less than 200, you need to go into the overdrive mode to fortify your standing by whichever moral and legal way you can possibly think of.
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I'm going to take a guess that about 20% of applicants score 200. Our DD scored 195, and the PMS at the University closest to us (not the one she ended up taking the scholarship to) told us he rarely gives a score of 200.

    As everyone has pointed out, all that means in the world of SAL, is that:

    Scholar: top Scholar points means the applicants ia at least a B student.. nothing more, nothing less.
    Leader: The score means they do indeed demonstrate some leadership
    Athlete: That they have at least one Varsity letter, or the off-school equivalent of such. That is a pretty low athlete bar, actually.

    I agree the real value of the Officer Interview is the ability of the PMS to judge the honest DESIRE of the applicant to serve their country by leading soldiers in harm's way. There is no score for that, but it comes out in the comments at the end. If I were on the Scholarship Board, that's really the only thing I would care about the Officer Interview report... and I'd read those comments very carefully, several times.
     
  11. educateme

    educateme Member

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    Ah, but the raw score does matter, doesn't it, regardless of the nuance of the subjective comments? Since Army being Army, this goes into the whole OMS calculation. In a competitive environment, every point counts.

    By the way, I am surprised by this PMS comment that he hardly gives perfect points for the interview. Now that we established that the "objective' points are very easy to max out on, it's the subjective part he is so stingy about. If so, this is very unfortunate. My understanding is, many PMSs are actually pretty generous with the subjective comments points. I talked to several parents whose kids interviewed with one particular PMS (don't ask how this came about), and all their kids got the max interview points.

    Well, I guess there is really no way to establish a perfectly fair process for everyone.....
     
  12. enived2

    enived2 Member

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    My son received an NROTC-Marine Option last year. We have never seen his "score sheet". I know what he scored on the objective areas, because those are hard numbers, but no idea on the interview and additional comments. How did you see your score sheet? or was it just something mentioned to you?
     
  13. educateme

    educateme Member

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    when my son called the ROO on the top of his list, he told my son that the PMS interview score was 200. Battalion officers have access to all the data completely up to date for applicants who listed their schools.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    When I was pregnant with our DD, the OB Doc was a doppleganger for my BIL. He was a top notch OB, didn't matter how good he was, because he looked liked my BIL, I had a preconceived opinion about him.

    That's life. That is why for the WCS the boards do not place as much weight on these comments as people think. It is subjective. It is a % of that 20% of the 100% for the WCS.

    The candidate may just rub them the wrong way personally and it has no reflection on their ability. No reflection on the interviewer. In this case it is a personal judgement.

    Envied, our DS was also informed by his ALO he was the only one to get Max points for the interview in his group. Some actually are very open. DS never saw the score, just was told.
     
  15. educateme

    educateme Member

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    my son was actually surprised that he got the max score on the interview. The PMS who interviewed scared the hell out of him. My son said, during the whole interview, the PMS had his arms folded across the chest, leaned back and gave him the "looks" I asked him what questions the PMS asked and how he answered.

    After that, I told him "You will be fine. The PMS's appearance has more to do with him than you. He just got back from Afghanistan fighting on the front line, and I can imagine what this whole charade of working with and interviewing privileged 17-21 year old kids must have felt like for him (he is a PMS at a VERY preppy school).

    And I dare say, I was right, given the score of 200 he got.

    So, if the PMS interviewing you looks not so "encouraging", don't panic. Keep the "story line" straight, and answer truthfully and with respect.
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I don't want to say I disagree but....while I think you may be right I do think that the comments section can have more of an impact for some applicants. My older son went through this in 2008, it was different then. Last year as we all know was extremely competitive. My younger son went through the application last year as well. His interview was a bit unorthodox, he had gone to visit his older brother at school and spent a few days with him. While he was there he was able to participate in PT and got a meeting with the PMS. He went straight from PT, it shorts, T-shirt, and running shoes with the PMS and sat in his office. After about an hour the PMS told him "Hey why don't we just make this your interview" son aid fine and they finished up their visit, the PMS filled out the interview sheet and sent it off, all this before he had even started the application.

    Now the reason I brought this up, my son was a good candidate, a couple years ago, this year he was a bit worried. Without listing everything he was a #>% uw GPA and had a 24 ACT, lots of leadership and EC's and good athletics. When he compared himself to other applicants on this board it became clear to him that he was not in the top percent of applicants for the year. He started to formulate plan B and C. When we dropped our older son off at school that fall younger son met again with the ROO and PMS. After meeting with the ROO he told my son that he had never seen such high comments on an interview by his boss before, you must have really impressed him. My son felt good about that but was still not very optimistic for his chances. Son was told by other PMS's and ROO's not to expect to be selected the first round maybe even the second well... the first board met, we started seeing the caliber of those selected and figured he would be waiting, the next day his status changed and later he saw that he had received the scholarship for his top 5 schools all 4 year on the first round.

    I truly believe, as does my son, that he would not have been selected the first round and maybe not even awarded a scholarship had it not been for the comments given by the PMS on the interview. While these comments may not always carry the same weight I do believe they can make the difference in certain cases.
     
  17. enived2

    enived2 Member

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    Jcleppe - your younger son and my son have very similar statistics. We were not very hopeful when comparing him to other applicants we read about on this forum.

    He had a very good relationship with the ROO and had met with him a couple times before the actual interview. The ROO called a week or so after the interview and said that he was going to attach a personal letter of recommendation to DS's application...something he wasn't going to do for every applicant. This makes me think that the interview may carry more weight than previously thought. My DS is a great all-around, high-achieving kid with good, not great, stats....the interview is the only place he could've excelled beyond his stats. My assumption is that he maxed the points on the interview, but I never heard an actual score.

    This is such an infuriating and stressful process. My heart goes out to all of you still in the middle of it!

    Off topic - I attended the Tri-Mil Competition yesterday afternoon at son's school. It was so much fun to watch the AROTC/AFROTC/NROTC cadets & midshipmen competing! What an awesome spectacle it was! They were all having an absolute BLAST. Our country is in good hands:smile:
     
  18. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    I am corrected. This was posted by Marist College ROTC six days ago.
     
  19. Bill1899

    Bill1899 Member

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    I had my interview recently, the interviewer told me I did a great job and that my score was a 180 out of 200. I felt great about that until I read these posts. My interviewer said that I could not max out on the athletics since I only had a varsity letter in one sport. My school is very large and extremely competive in sports so it is very difficult to letter in multiple sports. I now feel that perhaps I did not explain this well.

    It seems from Marist's comments that I am pretty much out of the running now.
     
  20. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    don't worry...Marist is pretty selective, and I have seen plenty of 180 or less get offers at my schools. Once again, school choice has an effect on your chances. If you have a 160 and your the highest scoring candidate that has Clarkson on your list you'll eventually get the offer. Don't sweat it Bill, unless you only have high cost and popular schools (or Marist) on your list, then you might be at a disadvantage.
    Once again, people are worrying about things they can't control. All you can do is look at the interview sheet and make sure you can get all the points due to you on the front, then make sure you are prepared to impress the PMS regarding the stuff on the back. He's going to give you the score he gives you. The only other way you can bump up your overall score or influence the board is with your personal statement and additional SAL achievements on the application. You'll do fine with that 180.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012

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